Relocating my guide scope and camera on a budget, lol

[TiffsAndAstro]

So I want my guidescope on a dovetail on top of my imaging scope.

I should be able to use the too short for balancing bright green one I got with my scope but will need two screws that will drop through it and into each hole on top of each OTA ring.

Then I'd just need to attach a finder scope clamp (?) to that green dovetail preferably via two more screws. I can then velcro my usb hub on the same green dovetail behind the guide cam. Hopefully.

I could potentially reuse the finder scope clamp I'm currently using but I'm not keen to unscrew it. The holes left would let in light? I'd need to reuse those screws unless I can identify them and buy extras.

Does this sound doable?

I asked Flo and their advice was to spend more than my telescope cost on an adapter lol

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-guider-mounting/adm-mini-max-guider-guidescope-saddle.html

 

 

Edited June 4 by TiffsAndAstro

[Backyardscope]

Why does everything have to be expensive and complicated.

Attach another dovetail on top, then buy these 3 things:

Astro Essentials Vixen Style Dovetail Clamp for Finder Shoes | First Light Optics

Finder Mounting Shoe | First Light Optics

Astro Essentials Multi Finder Adapter for Sky-Watcher | First Light Optics

Certainly cheaper

[Elp]

49 minutes ago, Backyardscope said:

Why does everything have to be expensive

Usually because it's imported from an LCC source and marked up. The last finder brackets I bought were a pound each.

But yes, I was also thinking along the lines of your solution. The astro essentials dovetails are typically the cheapest UK.

Regarding the existing finder brackets, you may find they're blind holes rather than through (though I suspect the latter as it's easier to machine), and they'll be in the OTA, not through the focuser.

Edited June 4 by Elp

[TiffsAndAstro]

1 hour ago, Backyardscope said:

Why does everything have to be expensive and complicated.

Attach another dovetail on top, then buy these 3 things:

Astro Essentials Vixen Style Dovetail Clamp for Finder Shoes | First Light Optics

Finder Mounting Shoe | First Light Optics

Astro Essentials Multi Finder Adapter for Sky-Watcher | First Light Optics

Certainly cheaper

Really appreciate this but it looks a bit clunky.

I was hoping to screw the dovetail to the OTA rings then screw something like 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/303335188489

To the dovetail. Then I can just slide my guidescope and camera in?

Countersunk screw heads and thin bolts needed of the correct size might be an issue though?

 

[StevieDvd]

How about something like this:

Svbony handle

You can get different lengths but you get a handle and a guide scope fitting in one.

I believe the OTA rings you have there use a 3/8" bolt for cameras - which could be a problem, unless you use a standard dovetail bar upside down and get an adapter that fits on that.

[TiffsAndAstro]

2 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

How about something like this:

Svbony handle

You can get different lengths but you get a handle and a guide scope fitting in one.

I believe the OTA rings you have there use a 3/8" bolt for cameras - which could be a problem, unless you use a standard dovetail bar upside down and get an adapter that fits on that.

Omg I like that. Only problems might be velcroing my usb hub to it and being sure the base of my guide scope fits.

Flo told me I need M4 bolts but maybe with low heads incase zwo 120mm/f4 guidescope base might catch on them.

I think I'm going to buy stuff and see what happens, which I'm not keen on

Edited June 4 by TiffsAndAstro

[ollypenrice]

Why not just bolt the finder onto an aluminium strip and the aluminium strip onto the top of the imaging scope tube rings?

Or something like that. All this hardware is very pretty and very expensive but, dammit, a guide scope needs to be mounted reasonably stiffly so it points in about the same direction as the imaging scope. That's the beginning and end of the problem and most people have enough scrap metal in their workshops/sheds/garages to make this happen at zero expense.

Olly

Edited June 4 by ollypenrice

[StevieDvd]

Before buying anything why not try this:

• See if the green dovetail fits on to the top of the  OTA ring if you have the correct bolts
• Remove the finder shoe from the focuser (you can always put it back, but as someone mentioned it will not likely leave a hole all thru)
• See if the finder shoe fits on the green dovetail - looks like a single screw to connect it.

 

[TiffsAndAstro]

33 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Why not just bolt the finder onto an aluminium strip and the aluminium strip onto the top of the imaging scope tube rings?

Or something like that. All this hardware is very pretty and very expensive but, dammit, a guide scope needs to be mounted reasonably stiffly so it points in about the same direction as the imaging scope. That's the beginning and end of the problem and most people have enough scrap metal in their workshops/sheds/garages to make this happen at zero expense.

Olly

My workshop is rather limited

It's possible though ty

[TiffsAndAstro]

11 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

Before buying anything why not try this:

• See if the green dovetail fits on to the top of the  OTA ring if you have the correct bolts
• Remove the finder shoe from the focuser (you can always put it back, but as someone mentioned it will not likely leave a hole all thru)
• See if the finder shoe fits on the green dovetail - looks like a single screw to connect it.

 

I think that would work but the single screw would make it prone to turning.

I need to dissemble it a bit to double check this but I think what you said is the first thing I need to try, Ty.

Not tonight though, hopefully;)

[Elp]

I have enough fasteners to open my own shop... They're useful to have at hand however for rigging this and that, in fact I just rejigged something this afternoon.

[ollypenrice]

8 hours ago, Elp said:

I have enough fasteners to open my own shop... They're useful to have at hand however for rigging this and that, in fact I just rejigged something this afternoon.

Hosting six robotic scopes means I have my own collection plus the collections of six other people! 😬

Olly

[tomato]

A second dovetail bar for my RASA8 is £51 from Celestron. So to attach my guide scope to it I used a piece of flattened profile steel tube, drilled at the ends to use the existing screw fixings on the scope. It looks a bit rough but does the job.

[TiffsAndAstro]

3 hours ago, tomato said:

A second dovetail bar for my RASA8 is £51 from Celestron. So to attach my guide scope to it I used a piece of flattened profile steel tube, drilled at the ends to use the existing screw fixings on the scope. It looks a bit rough but does the job.

that actually looks really good. sadly i don't have access to a clamp and probably not suitable drills etc.

i need to take stuff apart and see where i stand. cheers for all this.

[TiffsAndAstro]

5 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

Hosting six robotic scopes means I have my own collection plus the collections of six other people! 😬

Olly

i bet lol

[Elp]

The handle, rail or a dovetail might be the easiest solution. You don't necessarily need to attach the usb/computer controller to the OTA, just use longer cables and attach them onto the tripod. Or, wrap a few adjustable velcro straps around the OTA, or use adhesive velcro, and then onto the hub, then attach, simple, but I'd be wary of it moving very slowly before falling off, it depends how heavy it is. You cant really avoid spending on hardware and fasteners, it's part of the overall budget, especially when you start thinking of more "creative" ideas.

[TiffsAndAstro]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

The handle, rail or a dovetail might be the easiest solution. You don't necessarily need to attach the usb/computer controller to the OTA, just use longer cables and attach them onto the tripod. Or, wrap a few adjustable velcro straps around the OTA, or use adhesive velcro, and then onto the hub, then attach, simple, but I'd be wary of it moving very slowly before falling off, it depends how heavy it is. You cant really avoid spending on hardware and fasteners, it's part of the overall budget, especially when you start thinking of more "creative" ideas.

I really prefer as few wires as possible trailing off the scope. How I have it the moment looks a mess but I have removed the scope from the mount after a session and it helps with that.

Having said that I'll reconsider it when  I get a couple hours free and look closer at the guide scope attachment situation.I have a spare usb extension lead I could use on the very short weird usb cable my 600d uses.

I've seen plenty of YouTubers dangling lots of cables and id attach least try to bunch them up at a point near the center of the dovetail before dropping it down the mount.

The usb hub is velcroed onto the ota at the moment and it holds ok.

I think I'll have to dissemble it all anyway to do I could change that at same time.

Of course, the minute I do dissemble it, the evening sky will miraculously clear up...

[Ratlet]

I use the svbony handle.  It has an integrated findershoe mount so if your guide scope has a finder it'll fit.  Depending on the length of handle you need you might be able to fit the hub in there too.  If not some velcro and stick it under the handle.  Mine takes the longer handle (205mm) and I'm pretty sure I can get the intel nuc and the finder scope.  Your finder looks like it has a long stalk?

I suspect the rings might take a 1/4" whitworth bolt.  I can have a check if my handle will accept them.  If you do go down that route have a look at ordering direct from svbony as it'll be cheaper than Amazon(currently £17 before shipping for the 135mm,£26 for the long)

My only regrets about the handle is that I didn't buy one sooner and that red tube rings are so expensive!

 

[TiffsAndAstro]

16 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I use the svbony handle.  It has an integrated findershoe mount so if your guide scope has a finder it'll fit.  Depending on the length of handle you need you might be able to fit the hub in there too.  If not some velcro and stick it under the handle.  Mine takes the longer handle (205mm) and I'm pretty sure I can get the intel nuc and the finder scope.  Your finder looks like it has a long stalk?

I suspect the rings might take a 1/4" whitworth bolt.  I can have a check if my handle will accept them.  If you do go down that route have a look at ordering direct from svbony as it'll be cheaper than Amazon(currently £17 before shipping for the 135mm,£26 for the long)

My only regrets about the handle is that I didn't buy one sooner and that red tube rings are so expensive!

 

This is really useful for me Ty. I'll have a look at sv bony £17 sounds very reasonable.

The OTA rings need an M4 so I'll get some.

The finger point to the bright red handle made me fall off my chair laughing, Ty

and yes my zwo 120 f4 scope has a long looking stalk.

Edited June 5 by TiffsAndAstro

[Ratlet]

1 hour ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

This is really useful for me Ty. I'll have a look at sv bony £17 sounds very reasonable.

The OTA rings need an M4 so I'll get some.

The finger point to the bright red handle made me fall off my chair laughing, Ty

and yes my zwo 120 f4 scope has a long looking stalk.

My daughter was confused when I said I needed her to point at the handle at first but the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree and she thought it was funny too.

[WolfieGlos]

Some great advise already here. As another option, here is what I did. Firstly, did your 72ED come with a screw and block on the top of one of the tube rings?

If so, you can get a small screw adapter and connect a standard ballhead from a camera tripod to the top. The ZWO Guidescope base then connects directly to the clamp of the ball head. I forget the exact sizing now, but the correct screw adapter is supplied with the Star Adventurer 2i mount. I had these bits to hand and it worked fine. 

Although it looks a bit clumsy when sat upright (and prone to movement depending how loose your ballhead is), I orientated mine with the ball head sat in the socket to minimise any movement, and then balanced it with a red dot scope in the findershoe on the opposite side, although an ASiAir would also do the trick. You can just see it below:

Another possible option, if you have the longer dovetail on the bottom, is to use the dovetail clamp and findershoe that @Backyardscopelinked in the 2nd post and mount it UNDER the scope. FLO originally suggested this to me, but I never tried it because I used the stock dovetail and it was too short. 

[TiffsAndAstro]

1 hour ago, WolfieGlos said:

Some great advise already here. As another option, here is what I did. Firstly, did your 72ED come with a screw and block on the top of one of the tube rings?

If so, you can get a small screw adapter and connect a standard ballhead from a camera tripod to the top. The ZWO Guidescope base then connects directly to the clamp of the ball head. I forget the exact sizing now, but the correct screw adapter is supplied with the Star Adventurer 2i mount. I had these bits to hand and it worked fine. 

Although it looks a bit clumsy when sat upright (and prone to movement depending how loose your ballhead is), I orientated mine with the ball head sat in the socket to minimise any movement, and then balanced it with a red dot scope in the findershoe on the opposite side, although an ASiAir would also do the trick. You can just see it below:

Another possible option, if you have the longer dovetail on the bottom, is to use the dovetail clamp and findershoe that @Backyardscopelinked in the 2nd post and mount it UNDER the scope. FLO originally suggested this to me, but I never tried it because I used the stock dovetail and it was too short. 

yeah mine came with that screw/washer thing. i  removed it in case it took anyone's eye out but i don't like the idea of the guidescope+cam relying on a  single screw - will make it prone to turning and i have to dismantle it and store it after every session. i was hoping to get another one of these screw and use them to attach my spare green dovetail. the dovetail i currently have isn't long enough to mount it on the front.  i do have two ball heads and one quick release plate though.

[Backyardscope]

I use this on my quattro, which I made additional drill holes on the plate to accept my other scope lengths. 

A 3.5mm thick aluminium strip with  30mm width.  Bent in a vice, equipped with a 70mm diy guidescope using a 70mm binocular objective.

Jubilee clips are used to mount the guidescope and camera to the strip.

Overall money I spent £10-15 max.

 

Edited June 6 by Backyardscope

[TiffsAndAstro]

9 hours ago, Backyardscope said:

I use this on my quattro, which I made additional drill holes on the plate to accept my other scope lengths. 

A 3.5mm thick aluminium strip with  30mm width.  Bent in a vice, equipped with a 70mm diy guidescope using a 70mm binocular objective.

Jubilee clips are used to mount the guidescope and camera to the strip.

Overall money I spent £10-15 max.

 

nice. also nice neat looking wires too.

[WolfieGlos]

21 hours ago, TiffsAndAstro said:

yeah mine came with that screw/washer thing. i  removed it in case it took anyone's eye out but i don't like the idea of the guidescope+cam relying on a  single screw - will make it prone to turning and i have to dismantle it and store it after every session. i was hoping to get another one of these screw and use them to attach my spare green dovetail. the dovetail i currently have isn't long enough to mount it on the front.  i do have two ball heads and one quick release plate though.

Yeah, I wasn't keen on the idea either, but I had clear skies and had the bits to hand, and I wanted to try it !

In truth, I never had any issues with it slipping during the 12 months or so I that I used the scope, it worked on my HEQ5 with 6 minute exposures 🙂