Help picking a scope alongside some practicality advice.

[essentialblend]

1 hour ago, Robthepiano said:

Would you consider a wide field refractor like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102-az3.html

at 3.8kg including mount it would be easily portable, fairly robust and give you some great views till you have somewhere you can use a dob. 

While I am almost dead set on the 150p, with post accessories totaling around 310-320 quid as of now, I haven't completely ruled it out. I want to try and maximize the aperture per pound, is why I was ruling these out, but the portability definitely makes up for some of it. I don't feel confident enough making a decision here despite finding both of these appealing, but my gut wants to go with the 150p just from a value perspective.

Open to having my mind changed, with refractor options, I saw the Startravel 120 AZ3 for 379 quid alongside your rec. Are there any other options in that range? I don't know enough about mounts / tripod thing, to decide. I just want to get as much aperture as I can for a first telescope even if I'm paying a bit over, reflector or refractor.

Thanks

[LondonNeil]

Robthepiano has it I think,  an st102, or st120 are capable and portable. 

[LondonNeil]

Don't get the 120 on az3.  I know,  the mount isn't up to it!  It's touch and go on the 102 from what I've read and OK for the st80. If only have it as I got the 120 plus az3 used for less then a new ota....I tried it knowing it would likely frustrate and our does...so significant mount upgrade incoming now!

 

Anyone want to buy a used az3 and tripod? 😁

[Elp]

Think the OP needs to read this too:

 

[essentialblend]

4 minutes ago, Elp said:

Think the OP needs to read this too:

 

Thanks for sharing! Indispensable read (I read it a day or so ago), and also helped me align and better appreciate what I was seeing.

Just for posterity, I didn't think I'd see Hubble type images or something, but one mis-expectation I did have which quickly got corrected, was that I'd see more DSO stuff in colour.

Edited January 28 by essentialblend

[bosun21]

I'm going to throw you a curve ball and recommend either a 102 Maksutov or SW 102 ST on a decent photographic tripod. Either of these will be light and easily transportable. The Maksutov will provide better views of the moon and planets, planetary nebulae etc whereas the SW102 ST would provide wide field views. Food for thought.

[Robthepiano]

Well for goodness sake don’t imagine that any 120 refractor even a shorter widefield one is going to be remotely portable! And it will need a much beefier mount!

you must start thinking from what you can easily manage to carry/ transport, not your ideal at this stage! 

[essentialblend]

23 minutes ago, Robthepiano said:

Well for goodness sake don’t imagine that any 120 refractor even a shorter widefield one is going to be remotely portable! And it will need a much beefier mount!

you must start thinking from what you can easily manage to carry/ transport, not your ideal at this stage! 

Thank you so much for chiming in!
Here's where my logic is clashing. If I take convenience as the primary measure, something around a 100-130p max, is a no-brainer purchase if I'm sticking with dobs. Now from being in the ball-park range in spending anyway, I feel if I'm going for 130, might as well max it out at 150 and try to manage carrying it around for shorter distances in the near-term. That's where my confusion is, as I've never used one first hand, or have immediate access, it's hard for me without that information bit, to confidently settle on one.

But for now I'm thinking 150p and calling it a day.

EDIT - I also understand the value in picking a smaller scope to begin with, as it stays with you as a grab-n-go option, and then picking a better bigger scope for a next purchase. The only issue is, say I stick with ~130p, I'm as is spending ~200 quid anyway. 100p, I probably save 50 quid more. For this amount of money when it's not "fully" disposable, I'm trying to account for each and every quid with regards to aperture, causing further haze in what should be a relatively easier decision.

If I found out that even a 150p, I couldn't carry around walking a bit, then I'll either call it a day on a 130p, or just max it out and call it a day with 100p/equivalent 'frac. This is what I'm thinking for now.

Edited January 28 by essentialblend

[Cosmic Geoff]

If you are not able to handle one of these scopes in the metal before buying, you could find some cardboard and a couple of bricks to make up a dummy of the same length x width x height  + weight, and see how you feel about carrying it downstairs and onto  a bus. 🙂

[essentialblend]

6 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

If you are not able to handle one of these scopes in the metal before buying, you could find some cardboard and a couple of bricks to make up a dummy of the same length x width x height  + weight, and see how you feel about carrying it downstairs and onto  a bus. 🙂

I'm mostly not going to do that, if I were being utterly honest. I'll do my best in assessing, and rely on a return in the worst case where reality turns out completely opposite to whatever I gathered, but that's the only place I'm considering a return. 

I also think the Notts soc has a meeting in the coming days, will definitely attend that to see if I can get to see one of these in person. If anyone's going, please do let me know.

EDIT - I'm in no hurry to pull the trigger, I gotta wait around a week anyway.

 

Edited January 28 by essentialblend

[PeterC65]

You could wait for the Practical Astronomy Show on the 23rd March and have a look at the various options in the flesh.

 

[essentialblend]

1 minute ago, PeterC65 said:

You could wait for the Practical Astronomy Show on the 23rd March and have a look at the various options in the flesh.

 

Extremely tempting. I could also gather a good chunk if something better comes out by that time, no idea if that's the case. Thank you so much for sharing.

[PhilB61]

Also try not to let your heart rule your head, even a 6" DOB is a big heavy item if you get the wrong one (lightest seems to be 8kg without accessories and easily over 20kg for a more typical tube and base). Also don't forget you will need eyepieces, finder scope and collimation tools as a minimum. Great advice above about attending the show and seeing these things in the flesh.

[essentialblend]

6 minutes ago, PhilB61 said:

Also try not to let your heart rule your head, even a 6" DOB is a big heavy item if you get the wrong one (lightest seems to be 8kg without accessories and easily over 20kg for a more typical tube and base). Also don't forget you will need eyepieces, finder scope and collimation tools as a minimum. Great advice above about attending the show and seeing these things in the flesh.

I accounted for the eye-pieces, I'm not fully sure on the finder scope or collimation tools. I thought I'd check it out and if something feels off, maybe try some collimation tool, but I'm not at all sure about this.

As of now, the dob + eyepiece + barlow + microfibre lens cloth is setting me back around 310 quid (all new, unless I find some deal here in the coming days). This 150p seems about 7.5-8kg on the OTA.

I'm also considering Peter's advice, albeit not sure if I can wait that long, off a cursory search, I don't know if something new / substantially better is going to be out at that time. If so, I have more incentive to wait.

[Neil H]

Hi while your waiting join Astro buy and sell some great stuff comes up on here at a good price 

[PhilB61]

I think the Flextube 150P includes a red dot finder, so agree a finder scope may not be required. You might be very lucky and find the scope arrives in collimation but knowing and having the means to do it is essential, possibly every time you want to use this telescope, firstly due to it's collapsible design and secondly because if you are travelling with it it's likely to experience some vibration or knocks whilst handling. In this respect the smaller refractors as mentioned in various posts above are much more robust and seldom require collimation unless dropped!

Have you yet determined where you will actually be able to use any telescope and how exactly you will transport it? If not certain why not put off a decision until you have properly investigated that first and also know exactly where you will be living, so you can plan the journey and in the meantime visit the astronomy show. I know you have money burning a hole in your pocket right now but you don't want to make the wrong decision and end up with an unsuitable telescope sitting in the corner of your room gathering dust and unused.

[Kon]

Have you seen theae here? 

 

 

I am not sure a 150 dob is really portable under your circumstances. I have a 200P and there is no way I would carry it around especially in public transport (from your earlier comment).

You haven't said what you plan on observing but a nice portable setup as the linked sites above might give you more pleasure to take around. Take a look on other posts in the discussion section about telescopes.

 

 

[LondonNeil]

There's an st102 with no bids and ending in 40 mins, listed at £120, on ebay right now.  Gives an idea of what you can pick up cheap. 

[essentialblend]

11 minutes ago, Kon said:

Have you seen theae here? 

 

 

I am not sure a 150 dob is really portable under your circumstances. I have a 200P and there is no way I would carry it around especially in public transport (from your earlier comment).

You haven't said what you plan on observing but a nice portable setup as the linked sites above might give you more pleasure to take around. Take a look on other posts in the discussion section about telescopes.

 

 

I just checked these threads. No opinion on these yet.

Also, regarding your question. That's the main issue as of now. Where I am till Feb end, is an amazing spot with a proper front yard clean area etc at the worst case. Ideally, I should simply postpone this decision till atleast I confirm where I'll be staying in March, so I know what's feasible for the mid-term to begin with. I'm simply not sure I'll be able to wait "that" long, but I'm trying to convince myself to at least wait till March, or till I get a good deal. I agree with your concern, ideally I should be waiting longer than I am planning currently.

[Second Time Around]

Many astro societies have loan scopes.  This may be at least a short term answer.

[essentialblend]

Just now, Second Time Around said:

Many astro societies have loan scopes.  This may be at least a short term answer.

Yep, will definitely try my best to attend the Nott soc meeting.

[Kon]

41 minutes ago, essentialblend said:

I just checked these threads. No opinion on these yet.

Also, regarding your question. That's the main issue as of now. Where I am till Feb end, is an amazing spot with a proper front yard clean area etc at the worst case. Ideally, I should simply postpone this decision till atleast I confirm where I'll be staying in March, so I know what's feasible for the mid-term to begin with. I'm simply not sure I'll be able to wait "that" long, but I'm trying to convince myself to at least wait till March, or till I get a good deal. I agree with your concern, ideally I should be waiting longer than I am planning currently.

I wouldn't rush. The night sky will be there in March too 😉. No point buying something that you will regret a month later. You have got some excellent advice from others here.

[essentialblend]

6 minutes ago, Kon said:

I wouldn't rush. The night sky will be there in March too 😉. No point buying something that you will regret a month later. You have got some excellent advice from others here.

Thanks to all of you! I definitely invaluably appreciate all the time, help, and all the first-hand experiences.

I'll do my best to wait this stretch out, and also take the opportunity to try and find a home that better aligns with this hobby as well, as someone that's seen many people pick up and drop hobbies, especially instruments in my case, I can definitely imagine the portability hurting if not ruining the entire experience. I can always return it if it's absurdly problematic, but I'd rather not. I gotta wait 7-8 days either way. I'll triple it and delay gratification.

It also gives me a chance to attempt and gather some more money, in case something better comes out in the way of new products or open box deals. I still yet don't have access to the buy-sell lounge here.

I'll try and look up more on refractors, and see if I have a more portable option with the least aperture sacrifice. I only looked up newts/dobs.

On a side note, what are the better places in the UK from a minimizing transit perspective (like from a Bortle zone perspective?). As of now, I'm looking between Nott, Le, Derby, Sheffield, and the likes. I understand just based off of intuition that most of these at best will be B5-6 zone especially the closer I go towards the concentration points, are there any "avoid at all costs" areas?

Edited January 28 by essentialblend

[Kon]

1 minute ago, essentialblend said:

Thanks to all of you! I definitely invaluably appreciate all the time, help, and all the first-hand experiences.

I'll do my best to wait this stretch out, and also take the opportunity to try and find a home that better aligns with this hobby as well, as someone that's seen many people pick up and drop hobbies, especially instruments in my case, I can definitely imagine the portability hurting if not ruining the entire experience. I can always return it if it's absurdly problematic, but I'd rather not. I gotta wait 7-8 days either way. I'll triple it and delay gratification.

It also gives me a chance to attempt and gather some more money, in case something better comes out in the way of new products or open box deals. I still yet don't have access to the buy-sell lounge here.

I'll try and look up more on refractors, and see if I have a more portable option with the least aperture sacrifice. I only looked up newts/dobs.

Look here too for second hand

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/index.php

 

[LondonNeil]

Just playing devil's advocate, by March the days are drawing out.... by end of Feb Jupiter is gone until August...Saturn is gone in a few weeks....Saturn's rings are getting more edge on and won't be visible next year..  .

If you buy used you'll but lose loads of you sell again,  and the best way to learn is often through trying something..

I'm not helping am I?