essentialblend

This article is gold! Thanks for sharing. Still going through it.

If I was in a position where I knew I could simply upgrade later at will on command, I'd be much much more comfortable with the beginner 60-70mm frac. I just don't want to get something and then feel any aperture regret, although I saw a bunch of representation images and have some faint idea of what to expect. Even with this 150p + stuff, I'm running close to 400 quid. 350 if I remove the barlow. Too much if it doesn't get used and is making me consider an open box 130.

It's even cheaper if available open box, absolute steal. Completely alleviates my tension on the spot. Just dealing with ap-fever on this one and unable to fully convince myself against the 150p because I feel I'm kind of spending a lot of money either way. I'm waiting, lets see if I stumble upon good deals.

Thank you so much! 130p looks so much more manageable than I'd presumed. I'm not considering binos right now sadly. And yet to conclusively figure out the "where" and "how" of it's day to day usage sadly so I don't even know if I'll have any table (or chair hah) available. Lots of haze unfortunately.

The only things I was comparing for was aperture per mm, and portability. Funnily enough Tiny Clang told me the same thing, and I get it, I could make this far more expressive and count in every non-trivial factor. The "ease of use / setup" effectively depends on the portability, or so I abstracted it out. All I have done on my end is self-assign one worst case portability metric, is all. No other subjective assessments. Regarding refractors, I thought a bunch, and simply eliminated it for my first scope. These are just comparing the 100-200 'flecs I came across online. I felt my conservative portability score is at least fair. I'm not doing a quirk-per-quirk totality comparison between these products, it's just getting some more data to better make a decision as I gather the money. I just wanted to know from those two angles, what serves well, and the ratings are almost what I intuitively imagined (i.e 100/130p being better portable and aperture per mm than a 150p), which reflects in the score, or so I thought. Here's my latest. The only easy hole in this I see is, it doesn't account for the "wow" factor of those big dobs, so regardless of how I prioritize the weights without extremes, the big ones probably get rated low.

Some data for fellow math peeps, if it helps anyone else. I calculate aperture per quid using data, then assign a worst case portability score (of 3, higher is more portable) based on the advice I got here + what I can assess. Then I normalize them, assign weights, some basic math later, we get a final score. I'm going to buy some base accessories/upgrades regardless, so I didn't want them to influence the core value proposition. It'd be fun to hear if people agree (or disagree) with these scores (considering the weights).

I can always look at something and pretend it was Jupiter.

Thanks to all of you! I definitely invaluably appreciate all the time, help, and all the first-hand experiences. I'll do my best to wait this stretch out, and also take the opportunity to try and find a home that better aligns with this hobby as well, as someone that's seen many people pick up and drop hobbies, especially instruments in my case, I can definitely imagine the portability hurting if not ruining the entire experience. I can always return it if it's absurdly problematic, but I'd rather not. I gotta wait 7-8 days either way. I'll triple it and delay gratification. It also gives me a chance to attempt and gather some more money, in case something better comes out in the way of new products or open box deals. I still yet don't have access to the buy-sell lounge here. I'll try and look up more on refractors, and see if I have a more portable option with the least aperture sacrifice. I only looked up newts/dobs. On a side note, what are the better places in the UK from a minimizing transit perspective (like from a Bortle zone perspective?). As of now, I'm looking between Nott, Le, Derby, Sheffield, and the likes. I understand just based off of intuition that most of these at best will be B5-6 zone especially the closer I go towards the concentration points, are there any "avoid at all costs" areas?

Yep, will definitely try my best to attend the Nott soc meeting.

I just checked these threads. No opinion on these yet. Also, regarding your question. That's the main issue as of now. Where I am till Feb end, is an amazing spot with a proper front yard clean area etc at the worst case. Ideally, I should simply postpone this decision till atleast I confirm where I'll be staying in March, so I know what's feasible for the mid-term to begin with. I'm simply not sure I'll be able to wait "that" long, but I'm trying to convince myself to at least wait till March, or till I get a good deal. I agree with your concern, ideally I should be waiting longer than I am planning currently.

I accounted for the eye-pieces, I'm not fully sure on the finder scope or collimation tools. I thought I'd check it out and if something feels off, maybe try some collimation tool, but I'm not at all sure about this. As of now, the dob + eyepiece + barlow + microfibre lens cloth is setting me back around 310 quid (all new, unless I find some deal here in the coming days). This 150p seems about 7.5-8kg on the OTA. I'm also considering Peter's advice, albeit not sure if I can wait that long, off a cursory search, I don't know if something new / substantially better is going to be out at that time. If so, I have more incentive to wait.

Extremely tempting. I could also gather a good chunk if something better comes out by that time, no idea if that's the case. Thank you so much for sharing.

I'm mostly not going to do that, if I were being utterly honest. I'll do my best in assessing, and rely on a return in the worst case where reality turns out completely opposite to whatever I gathered, but that's the only place I'm considering a return. I also think the Notts soc has a meeting in the coming days, will definitely attend that to see if I can get to see one of these in person. If anyone's going, please do let me know. EDIT - I'm in no hurry to pull the trigger, I gotta wait around a week anyway.

Thank you so much for chiming in! Here's where my logic is clashing. If I take convenience as the primary measure, something around a 100-130p max, is a no-brainer purchase if I'm sticking with dobs. Now from being in the ball-park range in spending anyway, I feel if I'm going for 130, might as well max it out at 150 and try to manage carrying it around for shorter distances in the near-term. That's where my confusion is, as I've never used one first hand, or have immediate access, it's hard for me without that information bit, to confidently settle on one. But for now I'm thinking 150p and calling it a day. EDIT - I also understand the value in picking a smaller scope to begin with, as it stays with you as a grab-n-go option, and then picking a better bigger scope for a next purchase. The only issue is, say I stick with ~130p, I'm as is spending ~200 quid anyway. 100p, I probably save 50 quid more. For this amount of money when it's not "fully" disposable, I'm trying to account for each and every quid with regards to aperture, causing further haze in what should be a relatively easier decision. If I found out that even a 150p, I couldn't carry around walking a bit, then I'll either call it a day on a 130p, or just max it out and call it a day with 100p/equivalent 'frac. This is what I'm thinking for now.

Thanks for sharing! Indispensable read (I read it a day or so ago), and also helped me align and better appreciate what I was seeing. Just for posterity, I didn't think I'd see Hubble type images or something, but one mis-expectation I did have which quickly got corrected, was that I'd see more DSO stuff in colour.

While I am almost dead set on the 150p, with post accessories totaling around 310-320 quid as of now, I haven't completely ruled it out. I want to try and maximize the aperture per pound, is why I was ruling these out, but the portability definitely makes up for some of it. I don't feel confident enough making a decision here despite finding both of these appealing, but my gut wants to go with the 150p just from a value perspective. Open to having my mind changed, with refractor options, I saw the Startravel 120 AZ3 for 379 quid alongside your rec. Are there any other options in that range? I don't know enough about mounts / tripod thing, to decide. I just want to get as much aperture as I can for a first telescope even if I'm paying a bit over, reflector or refractor. Thanks

Okay based on Elp and Cajen's advise I'm sticking with dobs. Narrowed it down to 150p and Bressier based on cajen's suggestions. What would be the best 6" dob y'all would recommend from a purely DSO perspective? if any I've missed maybe.

Yep this is what I gathered for now off FLO. Could definitely use your advice in narrowing down. One more thing I don't know is, would an OTA + Tripod of some sort be equally if not more portable than a similar dob? I don't know what tripods / stands to go for if I went the OTA way, I'm presuming I'd have to spend more than its dob equivalent. I don't yet fully understand the specs either, to know what'd be the best option amongst these for DSOs. I excluded the StellaLyra 6" for now as it was more expensive than the others, unless I get personal recs.

Looks slick, just 3x out of my budget is all. I also quite enjoyed the Seestar rec from Second Time Around, I just don't have the money for it. Even if I killed myself, the max I could penny together'd be 350-400 quid lol. As of now I'm simply considering the 6" dobs after taking yours + others advice. I found 3-4 sku's counting OTA's + dobs. Thank you so much for taking the time to help! :)) I also did some basic youtubing on refractors and the good ones I found to be way too expensive for my current situation.

Amazing thread! Thanks for taking the time. I'm now beginning to better appreciate these smudges.

Also @cajen2, could you please give me a low down on your experience with refractors? I feel I saw a bunch of representational images for reflectors, but not for refractors, I don't know what I should be comparing against apart from portability.

Highly appreciate your advice. Even based off those scale images, it does look big and unwieldy. I've all but ruled it out, and I'm now leaning more towards a 150p (either a dob, OTA + tripod(?) setup) or a refractor. I will only ever consider an 8" if my living conditions 150% accommodate it. Good egress / immediately accessible clean back/front yard areas / no stairs etc. (which is all just a hope-shot, I'd need to get ultra lucky for that) What I "want" is just making it worse with regards to the 8" because I feel I could pull it off financially, but again no point having something so inconvenient that it barely gets used. Happy to take a refractor rec against a 150p (as that's what I'm 90% leaning towards).

I think a chunk of this decision will be much easier for me as I get a final handle on where I'll be moving to in March, and whether I have elevators / nearby areas with good egress. I am not planning to buy it immediately anyway. I honestly am still not able to get myself to consider a refractor out of aperture fever of a kind, sounds like a no-brainer from a portability perspective for sure. This is more confusing than I'd like. Edit- Based off the advise I got off you lovely peeps here, I'm narrowing it down to a 150p, and hesitantly considering a refractor. And I have not looked up anything on them. Considering the 150 quid working budget to a stretch around 250quid for value for money, what should I consider in terms of refractors? Not including the post purchase upgrades in this budget.

This looks super cool! Way out of my working budget for now, but would definitely consider this for when I have some money to blow. I was primarily interested in basic visual astronomy for now. Thanks for sharing! Oh I definitely agree (and read up on this on a site), I saw a bunch of pics of DSO's which effectively looked like a faint smudge. My original expectations were slightly higher (lol), but I definitely appreciate them as to where I don't imagine being bored. Gotta say, could be totally wrong on this lol. One of those things I'm not fully able to gauge without using one first hand. I looked up and joined the Nottingham soc, will try and catch them in a couple of days. Sounds fun! I'll get to maybe use one and see, just to get a reality-check on my expectations before buying anything, although I think I know what to expect based on what everyone said. Definitely not making the rookie mistake of confusing astronomy with AP, for sure.

Just for clarity, I don't care about AP at all right now. All I imagine having is the tube, the stand, and its accessories (unless I'm missing anything). I tried looking up my current area's bortle zone, but only found some maps without labels, so don't have a clue about this at the moment, thanks for this information. I had no clue. Is it even possible to carry an 8" dob via public transit if I had to? What I can imagine doing occasionally, is just booking a cab to the nearest clear view available and making an occasion out of it. And on the daily, maybe use it near my residence. I can still imagine carrying and setting it up nearby my residence, but it's this inter-area thing I'm confused about. I find the 8" to be the best value for money in this circumstance, and just trying to see if I can realistically make it work. If not, I will simply go for 150p and call it a day, but I don't want to do that. Refractors, honestly I'm not even considering.