Beginner’s dilemma, Skymax 127 GOTO or Celestron Starsense DX 5

[Bloodline]

Hi Everyone.

I’ve finally decided to take the plunge and get into the wonderful world of astronomy, it’s always something I’ve been interested in the last 40 years or so.

Ive read a lot of the posts in this forum which offers great advice and for the last couple of months read reviews and watched countless YouTube videos before I even started looking for a scope. The best bit of advice I’ve seen is ‘ the best scope is the one you actually use’, together with the different criteria for choosing a scope. The main thing I need is something that’s easy to store, preferably on a top shelf in the cupboard. The reason for this is the uncontrollable force of nature ‘children ’, my son still can’t seem to grasp the ‘ no kicking a ball indoors’ rule lol. 
With this in mind I quickly whittled down my choice down to the smaller Mak scopes, I realise that this may limit me to planets, stars and brighter DSO but that’s ok.

The problem I have is deciding between a GOTO scope or a Starsense.

GOTO would move to the target and track but needs alignment first, chews through batteries so would need a power supply and would need realigning if the scope is moved plus more moving parts and electronics to go wrong.

Starsense again finds the target but would need to be manually moved but doesn’t track, no alignment needed, can easily be moved and less things to go wrong plus no need for a power supply.

So I suppose it all boils down to tracking, is this something I’d miss? At the moment I’m more inclined to go with the Celestron Starsense Dx 5 SCT, I like the simplicity of it and also I’m lucky enough to have a dark field a few minutes walk away so it would be much easier with this scope as it doesn’t need a power supply.

Sorry if I’ve rambled on a bit I just wanted to explain my reasoning and also if another beginner was having the same dilemma it might help them.

So what are your thoughts? Are the two scopes I’m considering good? Am I missing an alternative solution?
 

[cajen2]

It's a good question and one that you'll get different answers to. It's all a matter of what's most important to you.

Rather than being limited to a go-to mount with tripod, another option would be the Skymax on a Virtuoso mount:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-skymax-127-virtuoso-gti.html

The advantage here is that the scope has a dovetail, so can also be used manually on a light mount and tripod if you prefer.

As to the StarSense scope, I don't know how good the scope itself is, but the SS system is great - as you say, it needs no power supply and is easy to use. It's the one I'd probably go for myself, as a dob owner, I'm used to nudging the scope to keep stuff in view. The idea of needing no alignment and being told exactly where a target is strikes me as ideal.

[DeanCJ]

Hi Bloodline and welcome to the forum. My wife and I have a couple of goto mounts, one being the Skymax 127, it’s a cracking little telescope, excellent for lunar and planetary and will show most of the Messier catalogue, not too shabby on double stars either. 
The main advantage of goto and tracking for us is that we share the eyepiece, if we take a while swapping, or have to nip inside to make a drink, the target will more often than not still be in the eyepiece. My son has a Dob and when we share we have to be quick as I am not very good at relocating the target and nudging to be honest, so if you are planning on sharing your telescope with others, this may be something for you to think about.

Cheers Dean.

[Zermelo]

1 hour ago, DeanCJ said:

The main advantage of goto and tracking for us is that we share the eyepiece, if we take a while swapping, or have to nip inside to make a drink, the target will more often than not still be in the eyepiece. My son has a Dob and when we share we have to be quick as I am not very good at relocating the target and nudging to be honest, so if you are planning on sharing your telescope with others, this may be something for you to think about.

+1
For me, this is a very important consideration.  If you know you'll be observing solo, it may not be so for you.

[Bloodline]

Thank you all for your helpful advice.

I hadn’t considered about the sharing aspect, it’s definitely something I need to think about. I suppose at least with the Starsense it wouldn’t take much to realign the scope using the app.

Has any one got anymore thoughts on the actual Dx 5 scope itself?

[Cosmic Geoff]

Both the Skymax and the DX5 telescopes are available with various alternative mounts.  For the beginner, the SCT as applied in the DX5 is a tried and tested design not too different in characteristics to the Mak.   Both designs being long focal length, narrow field instruments will benefit from a sophisticated mount that holds the telescope steady, tracks and finds stuff in the murky unban or semi-urban skies that most amateurs have to contend with.

GoTo is great, but seems to baffle some people not of a technical bent.🙂 If you decide on the Skymax GoTo (or any other) don't even think of running it on the internal AA batteries - get a proper power unit, eg a astro power tank, or a car engine starter (basically the same kind of thing but not badged for astro use).

Somebody will probably suggest yet more telescopes for you to consider. Whatever you decide on, don't agonise over it too long, as the chances are that whatever you buy, sooner or later if bitten by the astronomy bug you will upgrade to a bigger or more specialised instrument (or even several 🙂).

[Jules Tohpipi]

There's definitely pros and cons to your two options and you seem already to be on top of those.

Certainly, in principle, the Starsense system is the easier to use and get up and running quickly. The Goto systems require an alignment process to be performed and even then won't necessarily be 100% accurate. That's because the Goto systems - in the sense you intend to use them - are not actually aware of whether they are pointing in the right direction. Whereas the Starsense system is aware because the camera analyses the sky to confirm at the destination. That's a big plus point and can save much faffing about if your Goto is not playing ball for any reason.

As for a Goto system, such as the Sky-Watcher 127 Mak on an AZ-GTi, that requires somewhat more user input to get working - but will be no great challenge to anyone willing to tackle a fairly easy learning curve and willing to do some background research off the net - if necessary. The immediate reward is tracking to allow undisturbed viewing at the eyepiece. But a whole load of future options will present themselves also. For example, using other programs/apps to take control of the telescope. Adding a camera for getting into EAA (see the EEVA forum here) for immediate great views of the dimmer objects and taking some basic photos. Or adding a cheaper refractor further down the line, such as the Sky-Watcher Star Travel 102 for wider views as it can also be used on the AZ-GTi. That mount can even be easily upgraded (adding more components) for more serious astrophotography in equatorial mode.

So to the million dollar question - which would I recommend to my friends? The answer is totally dependent of what I know about my friends! For some the Goto system would be a complete no-no because they have neither the patience, motivation or aptitude for that. And nudging to track is no great inconvenience or challenge either. The Starsense would be the absolute perfect option for them or anyone who is time poor. I'd recommend the Goto for the more ambitious and those who don't mind learning some basics about the equipment - not that any of this requires master-class or even medium knowledge.

So many times the question is asked at the beginning of this journey 'What's the best telescope?' In reality the answer is, as you seem to 100% understand already, is 'The telescope that is best suited to you.'  

 

  

Edited June 13, 2023 by Jules Tohpipi

[Stu1smartcookie]

On 10/06/2023 at 14:32, Bloodline said:

Starsense again finds the target but would need to be manually moved but doesn’t track, no alignment needed

Not true ! you need to align the starsense with an initial 2-3 minute alignment and after that the sky need to be dark enough for it to "see" stars , not just one or two . The app will actually "tell " you that . 

Having said that , i love the starsense and use it on manual mounts whether it be placed on my scopes or the mount itself . 

It will only work properly when the sky is clear . That may seem obvious, but it does lose position sometimes ,if there are a few clouds about . its nothing major as it usually recovers . 

The other good thing about the starsense is that once aligned you can move the mount anywhere and it will find its position WITHOUT it needing to be re-aligned , thats a brilliant feature . 

GOTO's are brilliant but they also add so many variables that can fail at anytime . I have neighbours with small kids who , at this time of the year have their windows open at night . They dont want to hear whirring and screetching noises as the goto motors spring into action . 

So , my choice is a combination of the two ... i have a mount that accepts tracking motors but i use the starsense to find the targets first . 

One thing you might want to consider is that the starsense DX5 will also accept ather light weight scopes ie small fracs . So its quite versatile although the tripod is quite flimsy . 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Stu1smartcookie

[Stu1smartcookie]

On 10/06/2023 at 19:15, Bloodline said:

Has any one got anymore thoughts on the actual Dx 5 scope itself?

A 5" sct is a nice starter scope , it will show you quite a lot .. i had an omni 127 ... i really liked the scope ... the DX5 will be good on planets and the moon 

[bosun21]

Personally I would buy the 127 go to. I have owned this scope and I also have the Starsense unit on my dobsonian as well as an EQ go to mount. The Starsense is great but for observing the moon and planets at high magnification with a long focal length scope the go to is a huge plus with the tracking ability. Using the Starsense for this your target will quickly move through the field of view of your eyepiece necessitating constant reacquiring of the target. You will spend more time looking at your phone than you will observing. That's my two cents. Good luck with whatever you decide.

PS: The 127 will also have better contrast due to its smaller central obstruction.

Edited June 14, 2023 by bosun21

[Bloodline]

Once again thank you all for your comments.

At the moment ( though I might change my mind again lol) I’m edging towards the Celestron dx5, the main reasons are not needing a power supply of some sort which would require extra money and the ability to just easily move the scope with no need for realignment. Also a friend of mine commented that using a push to scope would also help me learn the sky rather than just clicking a target in a list to aim the scope.

The only nagging doubt I have is if I’ll really miss the tracking ability, maybe I’m wanting to much and should learn to walk before I run.

Im hoping to be able to buy my scope at the beginning of July as long as no big expense comes along.

[Bloodline]

Look what turned up today 😀

I apologise in advance to all those in the SE of England as of course the weather will be rubbish now it’s been delivered lol.

Will let you know how I got on and what I think of the scope once I get chance to use it.

Again thank you all for your advice.

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

You will love the Starsense , I used the unit on my skytee mount last night and it worked faultlessly. . Congratulations on your purchase . 

[cajen2]

Nice one, BL. I look forward to hearing how you get on with it.

[Bloodline]

Right, so after 3 nights of clouds I finally managed to take my scope out for the first time the other night and thought I’d give you a quick review on the scope and how I got on.

First off a big thank you to Rother Valley Optics for their speedy delivery, ordered Friday and delivered on Monday.

Setting up the scope was easy with the detailed supplied instructions and only took about 20 minutes, first thing that struck me was the weight of the tripod, it’s quite heavy and solid. The scope itself seems well made as is the 25mm eye piece, the 10mm though doesn’t feel as good. The phone mount holds the phone well and is easily adjusted and the Starsense app is very easy to setup.

So with the scope all setup and ready I took it outside just as it was getting dark, even though the sky was still slightly blue with only a few stars visible I was surprised that the Starsense app was able to plate solve and work out where it was looking however as it wasn’t quite fully dark yet the views weren’t the best so I decided to wait half an hour before I tried again.

And what a difference it made, the views of the stars were pin sharp and though it may sound obvious but the sky was full of stars! The Starsense app worked flawlessly and I carefully worked my way through the list of what was best to see, l can’t remember all the names of what I saw but some of the highlights were the wild duck cluster( I think that’s the name), the dumbbell nebula and some double stars. I then thought I’d try the Andromeda galaxy but struggled to see it as there appeared to be a smudge on the lens, I cleaned the eye piece but the smudge remained it was then that it dawned on me that the smudge was Andromeda lol.

So my final thoughts are it’s an excellent scope, in my beginners opinion, a good solid tripod that settles down after a second or so after moving, the 25mm seems very good and the Starsense app is excellent. The only downsides are the 10mm, it seems very difficult to use as I have to have my eye right against the lens and it doesn’t seem very bright and the slow motion controls have a bit of slack when moving in the opposite directions causing a bit of a jolt until they mesh.

I can’t wait to try it on the planets once they are more visible and to take it to a darker site so some of those grey smudges resolve themselves a bit better, I highly recommended this scope for beginners as they won’t be disappointed.

[Zermelo]

Congratulations on first light.

Yes, the Wild Duck is beautiful. Many of the "smudges", like M31, will remain so in a small amateur scope, when used visually, but some will show a little structure if you can get to a dark enough site. As you get more experience, you will be surprised at what you can detect.

The 10mm eyepieces included with scopes are often not great. It sounds like yours doesn't have much eye relief. If you have been reading the forum for a while, you may already know that these are often recommended as a first upgrade.

Does Starsense keep a record of the targets you viewed in a session? If you're not planning ahead, and you are seeing more in an evening than you can remember, it would be good to have a record that you can review and research afterwards.

[Ratlet]

I love a first first light report 😁.

There is nothing quite like looking through the eyepiece the first time and seeing a DSO.  It's a difficult experience to describe.

I started out last year and have been bumbling around with different scopes, but the BST Starguiders are really brilliant eyepieces for the price and they are a world of difference from the kit eyepieces.  I've got both the 8mm and the 12mm and you cant really go wrong with either in my opinion, although I get most use out of the 12mm in both my dob and 5" Newtonian.

If I could offer 2 suggestions:

1.  If you haven't already, look at globular clusters.  M13 and M92 are both high about the time it gets dark and are among the best.  Photos and sketches don't generally capture how beautiful these look through an eyepiece, and since they are clusters of stars they handle light pollution well.

2.  Once you're happy and comfortable with your gear, sketch.  You'll struggle to find something that has such a low cost but helps with observing as much.  Others can explain better, but for me it makes the difference between looking and observing.  I feel more connected with a session when I sketch.  And it doesn't matter about being good.  I'm rubbish but can still churn out a recognisable picture 9 times out of ten.

Congrats on getting first light so soon with it, I'm absolutely delighted for you

[Bloodline]

That’s a good idea about recording my observations, I think I was just excited about actually trying my scope out for the first time.

Thanks for the links to the BST eyepieces an 8mm or 12mm was the size I was considering so it’s nice that I’m the right path, although I was also considering a 2x Barlow.

I forgot to mention about the tray on the tripod, does anyone have any suggestions on  a simple way to mount it without the need of the wing nuts? The reason I ask is it would be much quicker to fold up and store and also to setup, I’m sure I saw somewhere someone had modded theirs with elastic or something so that it folded up when the tripod was collapsed.