International travel - Power options?

[OK Apricot]

Hi ladies and gents, 

I have a couple of holidays booked and plan on taking the recently finished mini-rig for some imaging under quality skies - Fuerteventura in June and Vegas in October, both around New Moon. OK I won't be imaging from Vegas per se, but have a few potential sites a couple hours' drive away. Both holidays I'll be using a rental car to get out to the darkness,so won't have any mains. 

Anyway, the completed mini-rig is:

Sharpstar 61EDPH II + 0.8x R/F, Star Adventurer GTI, ASI533MC-Pro, OAG, ASI120MM-Mini, filter drawer, ASIAIR Plus, EAF, dew strap. 

I'm happy enough with the logistics of the trips and sorting appropriate insurance but I'm umming and arring over how best to power it. According to my Anker 521 the power draw, with the camera at -10°C, dew strap at 80% and the mount slewing is in the region of 20W. I need to consider airline battery restrictions and for both carriers the maximum capacity of a single lithium battery is 100Wh. It's two per passenger so I can bring four single batteries at this capacity, and that gives me potentially 400Wh of juice. I'm not great at maths or electrics but I believe at a nominal 12V this should realistically provide around 12-14hrs run time considering inefficiencies, slewing, temperature etc (400/20=20)? To me it sounds great, but I'd need to be able to wire these batteries in parallel to avoid having to power off, disconnect, power up again and so on. Would it be as simple as making a parallel connector? Sorry if this is a silly question - it seems very straight forward so I feel like I must be missing something. 

Another option would be an inverter to run from the rental car, but I think having to stop and start the engine would cause issues. Sure, an inverter will put out mains voltage which I can then plug an adaptor into to power the rig, but there would be a voltage drop to consider when starting the engine, which might knock my kit out, blow fuses etc? A top-of-my-head solution would be a capacitor but not sure how robust this would be, not to mention having to wire it into an adaptor appropriately. 

A stream of thought here but I would appreciate your thoughts and insights, your experiences doing the same? 

Many thanks 🙂

[scotty38]

Can't you just run it directly from the car's 12v supply?

Just as if you had a portable battery pack

Edited March 19, 2023 by scotty38

[Elp]

My similar setup (azgti, no EAF) can be powered for 2-3 hours depending on temperature via a Celestron Lithium LT. No issue if power goes, just return it back to home position, make sure it's right and start the plan again with another battery. Dew heaters are powered with their own usb power bank due to their power draw.

[OK Apricot]

58 minutes ago, scotty38 said:

Can't you just run it directly from the car's 12v supply?

Just as if you had a portable battery pack

I could but I wouldn't want to be getting a flat battery out in the middle of nowhere! The hassle and recovery fees wouldn't be worth it 😂

25 minutes ago, Elp said:

My similar setup (azgti, no EAF) can be powered for 2-3 hours depending on temperature via a Celestron Lithium LT. No issue if power goes, just return it back to home position, make sure it's right and start the plan again with another battery. Dew heaters are powered with their own usb power bank due to their power draw.

Ideally I'd like to be able to run for up to 10hrs uninterrupted seeing as that's about the length of astronomical darkness in Vegas when we go. I wondered if a simple connector would allow me to maximise imaging time. Thinking about it, I suppose I could use one battery per target - 2-3hrs on each out there would be like 10hrs at home anyway 🤔

[Elp]

You start to get into too large a capacity battery afterward if you go up in the ranges, I've got two LTs and also a Talentcell but I havent tested the latter one yet.

Another thought, could you rent a battery whilst you're there? Might be easier to do in the US.

[Carbon Brush]

On airline battery limits. It is actually a bit more complicated.
There are limits on individual passenger carrying. But there also a limit for the aircraft. I don't remember the details.
Worst case would be 100 astro enthusiasts carrying 100Wh of lithium each and it would be no go!
Consider a 'business' flight with 100 executives carrying laptop computers vs a 'bucket and spade' flight with mainly phones.
It is the total hazard/risk, as well as individuals, that the rule makers are interested in.

Whatever you decide to take, include the paperwork.
The battery packs should have a UN transport approval, stated energy, and manufacturer contact information.
Also take a printed copy of the IATA allowed limit, and airline limit,  from their web sites.
If you don't have this information, you could end up with a 'no' from the airline and no evidence to support your claim.

Oh yes. Bring us some nice pictures😁

[OK Apricot]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

You start to get into too large a capacity battery afterward if you go up in the ranges, I've got two LTs and also a Talentcell but I havent tested the latter one yet.

Another thought, could you rent a battery whilst you're there? Might be easier to do in the US.

That's a great idea. It'd be great to have a 500Wh Jackery or similar 💡 I'll look into it, thanks! 

1 hour ago, Carbon Brush said:

On airline battery limits. It is actually a bit more complicated.
There are limits on individual passenger carrying. But there also a limit for the aircraft. I don't remember the details.
Worst case would be 100 astro enthusiasts carrying 100Wh of lithium each and it would be no go!
Consider a 'business' flight with 100 executives carrying laptop computers vs a 'bucket and spade' flight with mainly phones.
It is the total hazard/risk, as well as individuals, that the rule makers are interested in.

Whatever you decide to take, include the paperwork.
The battery packs should have a UN transport approval, stated energy, and manufacturer contact information.
Also take a printed copy of the IATA allowed limit, and airline limit,  from their web sites.
If you don't have this information, you could end up with a 'no' from the airline and no evidence to support your claim.

Oh yes. Bring us some nice pictures😁

Very good considerations, thank you. Looks like I've got a little more reading to do. Of course there will be some spoils to show on my return, their quality being questionable! Really need to work on my processing 🙈

[Elp]

I've just tested my talentcell 100Wh battery indoors on my gem28, 183 cooled to minus 10, guidecam on loop exposure, all powered through the mini, left to sidereal track whilst taking 2 minute darks and it lasted just 5 minutes shy of 5 hours. Did half a dozen gotos too. I would expect this to drop maybe 1-2 hours due to cold weather.

[OK Apricot]

Cheers @Elp, useful to know. Two of those to all intents and purposes could do the trick. I could even charge one on an inverter while the other is being used 🤔. Do you mind providing a link for your talentcell? I see one on amazon but I'm not sure - the one I'm looking at has 12V output but only at a piddly 1A.

I also did a little googling and found a couple of businesses in Vegas that hire out batteries for the professional photography industry so I wonder if astrophotography applies enough to get a rental. A 130Wh 14.8V unit with inverter would give some good run time for a respectable $40 for three days. 

[Elp]

Bear in mind this battery is new to me so haven't used it much:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/TalentCell-Rechargeable-11000mAh-20000mAh-Portable/dp/B06Y5G3C8Z/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=7NXAT84WE6P7&keywords=talentcell&qid=1679265607&sprefix=talentcell%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-2

 

[RT65CB-SWL]

23 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

On airline battery limits. It is actually a bit more complicated.
There are limits on individual passenger carrying. But there also a limit for the aircraft. I don't remember the details.
Worst case would be 100 astro enthusiasts carrying 100Wh of lithium each and it would be no go!
Consider a 'business' flight with 100 executives carrying laptop computers vs a 'bucket and spade' flight with mainly phones.
It is the total hazard/risk, as well as individuals, that the rule makers are interested in.

Whatever you decide to take, include the paperwork.
The battery packs should have a UN transport approval, stated energy, and manufacturer contact information.
Also take a printed copy of the IATA allowed limit, and airline limit,  from their web sites.
If you don't have this information, you could end up with a 'no' from the airline and no evidence to support your claim…

Following on this… any rechargeable batteries [Li-Ion, Li-Po, Ni-Mh, Ni-Cd, etc] and/or other electronic devices where the battery compartment is sealed [also includes vape sticks/pens/devices] must not be placed in your luggage that goes in the aircraft hold. You will be asked at check-in by the airline staff or airline handling agent staff.

[Carbon Brush]

I am following this thread with interest. Particularly the Talentcell pack.
I have requested a couple of the statutory documents from Talentcell. These cover the CE mark, which it must have for UK/EU sale, and the status of air transport approval.
It will be interesting to see what arrives.

 

[malftobe]

Really interested in this too @OK Apricot  

I’m weighing up going to the eclipse next year and taking a portable astro setup to use at a dark site at night to go with the usual dslr and lenses for the eclipse. 

I’ll probably be in @Carbon Brush’s worst scenario - loads of Astro enthusiasts with loads of equipment (and batteries) heading to the states all at the same time on the same plane! So I really appreciate the insight above. 

My initial thoughts are like those of  @scotty38 and use the rental car as my battery, but having had a car not start after leaving the lights on for 15 minutes - not sure I’d risk it now!

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by malftobe
Tags

[OK Apricot]

7 hours ago, Philip R said:

Following on this… any rechargeable batteries [Li-Ion, Li-Po, Ni-Mh, Ni-Cd, etc] and/or other electronic devices where the battery compartment is sealed [also includes vape sticks/pens/devices] must not be placed in your luggage that goes in the aircraft hold. You will be asked at check-in by the airline staff or airline handling agent staff.

Indeed true - I use a vape so carrying spare batteries is a must when I travel and I've always been sure to take the allowance in my carry on. 

 

6 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

I am following this thread with interest. Particularly the Talentcell pack.
I have requested a couple of the statutory documents from Talentcell. These cover the CE mark, which it must have for UK/EU sale, and the status of air transport approval.
It will be interesting to see what arrives.

 

Please keep us posted, it would be most helpful! 

 

1 hour ago, malftobe said:

Really interested in this too @OK Apricot  

I’m weighing up going to the eclipse next year and taking a portable astro setup to use at a dark site at night to go with the usual dslr and lenses for the eclipse. 

I’ll probably be in @Carbon Brush’s worst scenario - loads of Astro enthusiasts with loads of equipment (and batteries) heading to the states all at the same time on the same plane! So I really appreciate the insight above. 

My initial thoughts are like those of  @scotty38 and use the rental car as my battery, but having had a car not start after leaving the lights on for 15 minutes - not sure I’d risk it now!

 

I'm currently brainstorming ideas for the eclipse in '24. I'm swaying towards a fly-drive type holiday as I'd like to be mobile 1)for the eclipse to be able to drive in case of weather/cloud and 2)April is getting to prime tornado season in the Midwest and I've always loved me some good severe weather! Needless to say I'd like to bring the mini rig on this one as well as, again, dark skies are to be had nearby. My gut says you'd probably be alright, after all, just how many astrophotographers are going to be on the same plane? Really? I wonder if there is a way of checking with the airline nearer check-in what expected capacities might be. 

The only way I could be remotely comfortable using a rental car battery alone would be if I could monitor the voltage, be it a multimeter or onboard monitoring. I don't like the thought of being stranded in the Nevada nowheres 😬 It brings me back to my thought about the inverter, and having to start the engine to keep the battery topped up. 

[malftobe]

21 hours ago, OK Apricot said:

Cheers @Elp, useful to know. Two of those to all intents and purposes could do the trick. I could even charge one on an inverter while the other is being used 🤔. Do you mind providing a link for your talentcell? I see one on amazon but I'm not sure - the one I'm looking at has 12V output but only at a piddly 1A.

I also did a little googling and found a couple of businesses in Vegas that hire out batteries for the professional photography industry so I wonder if astrophotography applies enough to get a rental. A 130Wh 14.8V unit with inverter would give some good run time for a respectable $40 for three days. 

Missed this on the first read - but hiring equipment on location seems like the ideal solution. 
 

I’m selfishly treating your trip to Vegas as a fact finding mission!! Please do keep us all informed. 

30 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

Indeed true - I use a vape so carrying spare batteries is a must when I travel and I've always been sure to take the allowance in my carry on. 

 

Please keep us posted, it would be most helpful! 

 

I'm currently brainstorming ideas for the eclipse in '24. I'm swaying towards a fly-drive type holiday as I'd like to be mobile 1)for the eclipse to be able to drive in case of weather/cloud and 2)April is getting to prime tornado season in the Midwest and I've always loved me some good severe weather! Needless to say I'd like to bring the mini rig on this one as well as, again, dark skies are to be had nearby. My gut says you'd probably be alright, after all, just how many astrophotographers are going to be on the same plane? Really? I wonder if there is a way of checking with the airline nearer check-in what expected capacities might be. 

The only way I could be remotely comfortable using a rental car battery alone would be if I could monitor the voltage, be it a multimeter or onboard monitoring. I don't like the thought of being stranded in the Nevada nowheres 😬 It brings me back to my thought about the inverter, and having to start the engine to keep the battery topped up. 

I’m hoping to rent a car to stay mobile for the best chance of experiencing totality. Weather in April on the eclipse path looks 50/50 at best in the US and sadly Mexico not really looking a viable option at present. Your idea of combining with extreme weather hunting is a good combination where at least you’ll get a win one way or the other!!

[Elp]

Are you going to the Lone Star State? Been thinking about it....

[malftobe]

@Elp Texas looks a great option - probably the front runner at the moment for me all things considered.

The path goes through some pretty cool places though, but as @ OK Apricot says it’s not really the best season in any of the locations. Purely on location alone, I’d love to be around the Great Lakes or further up into Canada, but not really a good chance weather window wise.  
 

We'll have to start / join a thread on the 2024 eclipse as there seems to be a few of us coming out of the woodwork on this one!! It would be great to hear everyone’s ideas and plans. 

[Louis D]

I'm planning on traveling toward Uvalde for the eclipse despite its recent infamy.  The farther south and west you get in Texas, the higher the probability of clear skies on any given day/night.  It's marked with the cyan dot.  You could go all the way to Eagle Pass (gold dot), but I'm not keen on being that close to the Mexican border.  Really, though, anywhere in the red outlined area should give you the highest probability of clear weather along the path of totality.  Once you get east of I-35 or north of I-20, the weather is generally cloudier and more humid due to the proximity to the Gulf or because of jet stream propelled storm systems.  Simply pull up a map of the US and turn on satellite view to see for yourself.  Where it's greener is where there is more rain.  Where there is more rain, there are more cloudy days/nights.

[900SL]

I would advise against an inverter, they are inefficient and will flatten a car battery quicker than you may estimate

 

I'd take a compact automotive battery charger and buy a small compact 12V leisure battery over there, 30 - 40 Ah, keep it in the car boot.

[malftobe]

37 minutes ago, Louis D said:

I'm planning on traveling toward Uvalde for the eclipse despite its recent infamy.  The farther south and west you get in Texas, the higher the probability of clear skies on any given day/night.  It's marked with the cyan dot.  You could go all the way to Eagle Pass (gold dot), but I'm not keen on being that close to the Mexican border.  Really, though, anywhere in the red outlined area should give you the highest probability of clear weather along the path of totality.  Once you get east of I-35 or north of I-20, the weather is generally cloudier and more humid due to the proximity to the Gulf or because of jet stream propelled storm systems.  Simply pull up a map of the US and turn on satellite view to see for yourself.  Where it's greener is where there is more rain.  Where there is more rain, there are more cloudy days/nights.

That is extremely helpful, really appreciate the insight on the weather from a knowledgable local from Texas.    Will you be traveling far on eclipse day? 
 

The light pollution maps around that area are the things I can only dream of! Any tips on hiring 12v batteries in Texas for us overseas visitors?

[malftobe]

45 minutes ago, 900SL said:

I would advise against an inverter, they are inefficient and will flatten a car battery quicker than you may estimate

 

I'd take a compact automotive battery charger and buy a small compact 12V leisure battery over there, 30 - 40 Ah, keep it in the car boot.

Seems an interesting idea. Not being particularly electronically minded what components would I need beyond the leisure battery?

Compact charger something like this?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aibeau-Maintainer-Automatic-Functions-Batteries/dp/B07WVX4B32/

I already have a small distribution board, is it as simple as connecting the +ve and -ve leads to the leisure Battery and then I can power my equipment with a nice 12v supply? 

 

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hobbyking-powerstrip-fuse-protected-power-distribution-board.html?___store=en_us

[OK Apricot]

There may be better locations as @Louis D points out, but for my personal goals of the trip Dallas seems to be the best compromise.

I actually think I'm leaning towards a couple of locally sourced leisure batteries at this point with a method of charging from both mains and a car, particularly for Fuerteventura. It looks like professional photography batteries can be found for rental in Vegas so I think that covers that base too. Still have to look further into it. The inverter idea has been ditched. 

@malftobe Texas looks very good from a light pollution perspective, there's certainly going to be some driving involved to get to the darkness! The hobbyking jobby looks like a good unit, red to red and black to black and you've got some power. I used to buy loads from there back in my days of RC racing 😂 Very reputable company. 

[malftobe]

15 minutes ago, OK Apricot said:

There may be better locations as @Louis D points out, but for my personal goals of the trip Dallas seems to be the best compromise.

I actually think I'm leaning towards a couple of locally sourced leisure batteries at this point with a method of charging from both mains and a car, particularly for Fuerteventura. It looks like professional photography batteries can be found for rental in Vegas so I think that covers that base too. Still have to look further into it. The inverter idea has been ditched. 

@malftobe Texas looks very good from a light pollution perspective, there's certainly going to be some driving involved to get to the darkness! The hobbyking jobby looks like a good unit, red to red and black to black and you've got some power. I used to buy loads from there back in my days of RC racing 😂 Very reputable company. 

Leisure battery on location does sound promising.  
 

Let me know how you get on with the charger. An in car charger whilst driving would be ideal given I’m more likely to be on the road to charge up between sessions than somewhere where I can plug in for a good few hours. 
 

Thank you for starting the thread as it is one of those issues that has been buzzing around in my head for a while and it’s great to hear other people’s thoughts on the way forward for powering gear away from the comforts of home. It’s also reinvigorated my eclipse research which is great!

[Elp]

I've always made it a requirement to keep my equipment truly portable (not carry around a garden portable) by having each setup fit into a bag I can carry on my back. This also means they need to be able to be powered when off site. So the batteries also needed to conform to the airline standard, so I've kept them below 100Wh, which limits their runtime. My Celestron Lithium LTs consistently last 2-3 hours in full EQ mode powering everything other than the dew heaters (separate usb power bank, the mobile phone type), so once one runs out, I can swap it for the next. I bought the Talentcell as my gem28 needs a bit more power and also allows me to be able to use two setups in the field. From a visual standpoint the LTs power my azgti for around 5-6 hours plus in alt az mode so would be more than adequate for a nights observation.

Just note if it's cold out the battery performance does suffer.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Elp

[malftobe]

46 minutes ago, Elp said:

I've always made it a requirement to keep my equipment truly portable (not carry around a garden portable) by having each setup fit into a bag I can carry on my back. This also means they need to be able to be powered when off site. So the batteries also needed to conform to the airline standard, so I've kept them below 100Wh, which limits their runtime. My Celestron Lithium LTs consistently last 2-3 hours in full EQ mode powering everything other than the dew heaters (separate usb power bank, the mobile phone type), so once one runs out, I can swap it for the next. I bought the Talentcell as my gem28 needs a bit more power and also allows me to be able to use two setups in the field. From a visual standpoint the LTs power my azgti for around 5-6 hours plus in alt az mode so would be more than adequate for a nights observation.

Just note if it's cold out the battery performance does suffer.

Thanks for the data on the power expectancy for an 86Wh Celestron.  Although I've never tried it, the AZ Gti can use AA batteries, so I may be able to squeeze out an extra hour or so with the cooled camera by powering the mount separately.

 

Have you had any difficulty with the airlines when flying with the Lithium batteries?  I used to have nightmares about having to check my carry on bag full of all camera gear or having to throw away my spare camera batteries when I used to travel!