Advice Telescope for 7 year old

[fcoucelo]

Esteemed Stargazers,

I kindly ask for your advice as I’m looking to buy a telescope for my 7 year old daughter that loves astronomy. My wife wants to spend the minimum amount possible on a Amazon kid telescope but I preffer to spend a bit more on something that actually allows my daughter to see the moon and stars. 

I was leaning for the Celestron Firstscope at 75,95€ but without a finder makes it harder for my daughter to use it:

https://www.telescopiomania.com/telescopios-astronomicos-de-iniciacion/7193-telescopio-celestron-firstscope-76-edicion-especial-robert-reeves.html#

I then found the more expensive Celestron Startsense Explorer 70 that has the app to find stars:

https://www.telescopiomania.com/telescopios-refractores/9080-telescopio-refractor-celestron-starsense-explorer-70-lt.html#
 

Also saw a lot of people here advise the Heritage 100P but it isn’t sold in Portugal and it would cost 200€ to get it from Germany (even more from the UK due to customs tax).

Maybe there’s another option I’m missing and would really be grateful if anyone could help out.

Thanks!

Edited January 3, 2023 by fcoucelo

[Mandy D]

5 minutes ago, fcoucelo said:

Esteemed Stargazers,

I kindly ask for your advice as I’m looking to buy a telescope for my 7 year old daughter that loves astronomy. My wife wants to spend the minimum amount possible on a Amazon kid telescope but I preffer to spend a bit more on something that actually allows my daughter to see the moon and stars. 

I was leaning for the Celestron Firstscope at 75,95€ but without a finder makes it hard for my daughter to use it:

https://www.telescopiomania.com/telescopios-astronomicos-de-iniciacion/7193-telescopio-celestron-firstscope-76-edicion-especial-robert-reeves.html#

I then found the more expensive Celestron Startsense Explorer 70 that has app to find stars:

https://www.telescopiomania.com/telescopios-refractores/9080-telescopio-refractor-celestron-starsense-explorer-70-lt.html#
 

Also saw a lot of people here advis the Heritage 100P but it isn’t sold and it would cost 200€ to get it from Germany.

Maybe there’s another option I’m missing and would really be grateful if anyone could help out.

Thanks!

I would definitely avoid Amazon for this type of purchase. Go with an established, reputable astro vendor such as FLO or RVO. There is a good one in Bordeaux, who I have had dealings with when I'm in France, but I forget the name. I don't know any in Portugal.

There is the Heritage 76P, which has a spherical mirror instead of parabolic, but the views of the Moon are not too bad through it and it is only about £60 (€70) in the UK. FLO sell the 100P here, but it is out of stock:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage/skywatcher-heritage-100p-tabletop-dobsonian.html

[teoria_del_big_bang]

I certainly think you are right not to go with a toy telescope if you really want your daughter to get into astronomy properly.
Of course at 7 this is very difficult to determine if she will or not but I still think you have to give them something reasonable, without spending a fortune, otherwise a pure toy scope will probably put her off for the immediate future.

I think both your choices are pretty good options although I am not the best to give telescope advice they seem reasonable starter scopes to me.
The first one would probably be ideal for her to use pretty much on her own with minimal supervision but the second, more expensive one, would be good for you both to use and if you did the observing together then that would also encourage her more to continue in what really is a great hobby, and maybe could lead to more such as a career path, you never know 😉.

@Mandy D suggestion is a good one and not sure how it works ordering from FLO but they ship all over Europe so maybe an option.

Steve 
 

Edited January 3, 2023 by teoria_del_big_bang

[Carbon Brush]

A tabletop dob is a good choice.
Very fast setup and immediate views.
Been there with a 6 year old who has short attention span.

Definitely buy a known astro brand and preferably from an astro retailer - not Amazon, ebay, department store, etc.
As for where to buy in Portugal - sorry no idea.

[fcoucelo]

Unfortunately nowadays buying from the UK to Europe isn’t a viable option because everything gets stuck in customs and we need to pay a crazy amount of customs and import duties.

The telescope store that supplies Portugal and Spain is Telescopiomania below but they don’t have the Heritage 100P only the Heritage 76/300:

https://www.telescopiomania.com/telescopios-dobson/10085-telescopio-dobson-skywatcher-heritage-76300.html#

Is this one better than Celestron Firstscope?

Edited January 3, 2023 by fcoucelo

[JeremyS]

3 hours ago, fcoucelo said:

Esteemed Stargazers,

I kindly ask for your advice as I’m looking to buy a telescope for my 7 year old daughter that loves astronomy. My wife wants to spend the minimum amount possible on a Amazon kid telescope but I preffer to spend a bit more on something that actually allows my daughter to see the moon and stars. 

I was leaning for the Celestron Firstscope at 75,95€ but without a finder makes it harder for my daughter to use it:

https://www.telescopiomania.com/telescopios-astronomicos-de-iniciacion/7193-telescopio-celestron-firstscope-76-edicion-especial-robert-reeves.html#

I then found the more expensive Celestron Startsense Explorer 70 that has the app to find stars:

https://www.telescopiomania.com/telescopios-refractores/9080-telescopio-refractor-celestron-starsense-explorer-70-lt.html#
 

Also saw a lot of people here advise the Heritage 100P but it isn’t sold in Portugal and it would cost 200€ to get it from Germany (even more from the UK due to customs tax).

Maybe there’s another option I’m missing and would really be grateful if anyone could help out.

Thanks!

Have a look at this article https://britastro.org/2018/what-telescope-should-i-give-a-child

[Chris]

15 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

Have a look at this article https://britastro.org/2018/what-telescope-should-i-give-a-child

An interesting read Jeremy, I'm a little surprised the authors singular recommendation under £150 would be the Mercury 707 though. I mean I agree the 70mm f/10 optics will be nicely corrected and it will give decent views of the Moon and bright planets, however it's on a yoke mount with a push rod for altitude adjustments which might be frustrating, it was for me thinking back to my 'Christmas telescope' age 7 so I might be biased. What do others think of the Mercuary 707's yoke mount?

Then again I was also surprised regarding his opinions on table top Dobsonian's, for me it's hard to beat a Dobsonian in the under £150 price bracket - stable, simple to use, cost effective mount meaning most of the money goes into the optics. Just don't use them indoors like we all recommend for any telescope, and don't use them with a garden table with a leg missing. 

Classic refractors are great obviously - low maintenance, high contrast, long depth of focus, easy on eyepieces and the eyepiece position is great for kids to reach, but you just can't get a decent mounting for them under £150, new at least. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

[Ricochet]

Of the two initially suggested telescopes I would go for the 70mm Starsense refractor. These slow, relatively long focal length refractors will probably give sharper lunar and planetary images than the fast, short focal length newtonians, especially if a spherical mirror is used. On deep sky there probably isn't a lot between a 70mm frac and a 76mm newt, if anything the frac probably edges it here too. If you know that your daughter much prefers stars to the moon and planets then stepping up to at least a 100mm mini dob is probably as good or better than the 70mm frac. However, the starsense system has been getting good reviews and will make finding things a lot easier if you have a suitable phone that can be donated or leant for each observing session. 

[Ricochet]

14 minutes ago, Chris said:

What do others think of the Mercuary 707's yoke mount?

I think it sounds like time for a 70mm f10 mount comparison video. 

[Chris]

10 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

I think it sounds like time for a 70mm f10 mount comparison video. 

😄 I'm thinking Ursa Major 80mm f/6.3 Table top Dobsonian verses the Mercury 707?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ursa-major-telescopes/ursa-major-80mm-tabletop-dobsonian-telescope.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-mercury-707-az-telescope.html  

Timing my 3 kids whilst they set them up, find objects and focus. Followed by a vote on ease of use and views seen. 

 

 

[Ricochet]

29 minutes ago, Chris said:

😄 I'm thinking Ursa Major 80mm f/6.3 Table top Dobsonian verses the Mercury 707?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ursa-major-telescopes/ursa-major-80mm-tabletop-dobsonian-telescope.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/beginner-telescopes/sky-watcher-mercury-707-az-telescope.html  

Timing my 3 kids whilst they set them up, find objects and focus. Followed by a vote on ease of use and views seen. 

 

 

I was thinking more along the lines of a Skywatcher mercury or the celestron starsense 70az with a yoke mount vs say the Astromaster 70az and 70eq but yeah, throwing a similarly priced mini-dob set up into the mix would be something that I am sure would benefit all those parents who in the run up to a birthday or Christmas ask similar questions to the one posed in this thread. As adults we try to give our opinions on what we think or what we have seen but having kids give their views is probably a better perspective. 

[fcoucelo]

Thank you for your advise.

I now find myself trying to decide between:

1. telescope with a app that connects to the phone and the mount automatically aligns to view desired objects

2. telescope with a stand for the phone in the mount and a app that shows arrows to align the scope

3. Regular manual mount without any app but  I fear I will not be very good at finding anything for my daughter nor will I know what I will be looking at to explain to my daughter.

4. Dobson Scope (quick to assemble)

In terms of app based with automatic alignment I found this scope that is way off budget:

https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/skywatcher-telescope-n-114-500-skyhawk-1145p-az-go2/p,75976

In terms of app based but without automatic alignment I have these two that are cheaper but have to place the iPhone on the mount and check the arrows on the app to move the mount to the desired object:

https://www.discoazul.pt/telescopio-celestron-starsense-explorer-lt-70az.html

https://www.telescopiomania.pt/telescopios-refletores-newton/9105-telescopio-reflector-celestron-starsense-explorer-lt-114az-newton.html?search_query=StarSense+Explorer+LT+114+AZ&results=1

If I go for a regular mount without any app these two seem like the better options:

https://www.astroshop.pt/telescopios/skywatcher-telescopio-n-114-500-skyhawk-1145ps-az-pronto/p,69300

https://www.astroshop.pt/skywatcher-teleskop-ac-90-660-evostar-90-az-pronto/p,69290

Dobson

https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/bresser-dobson-telescope-n-130-650-messier-dob/p,58039

https://www.telescopiomania.pt/telescopios-dobson/3218-skywatcher-telescpio-heritage-130p-retrtil.html

Out of these 7 options what would you reccomend?

Thank you again for everyone`s help!

Edited January 4, 2023 by fcoucelo

[jjohnson3803]

Go-to mounts are good for finding objects quickly and tracking them, but you still have to level them, align them, and so on (at least as far as I know - I only use manual mounts).  And you'll need spare batteries and/or a power supply or make sure your phone can keep a good charge.

Some people claim that automatic mounts keep newcomers from learning the sky.  Not sure how accurate that is, but I can understand how that might happen.

I'd go with Option #5.  If the mount / tripod is sturdy and doesn't wobble, that would be a scope that could last her a long time.  I certainly wouldn't call it a toy.  (And you could upgrade the tripod and mount later if you wanted to.)

Just my opinions.  Good luck!

I should add that wandering around the sky at random can be quite rewarding - I've stumbled across a lot of interesting objects and asterisms when I've had no target in mind.  I almost always do a random scan at the end of an observing session to wind things down.

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by jjohnson3803

[Franklin]

Pair of 8x42 binoculars, a Planisphere and a red-light torch would be my recommendation. Learn the constellations first, there's plenty to see with binoculars, so much easier for a young kid to use and if the interest grows you can invest in a proper scope later. If it's just a phase then the binoculars will come in handy for other things .

[allworlds]

I have a Skywatcher Heritage 76. The Orion Funscope, Meade Lightbridge Mini 82, and some but not all models of the Celestron Firstscope are similar. I find it easy to use and got a lot of enjoyment out of it, but it's a very cheap telescope and does have its limits. Great for the Moon, the Milky Way, and star clusters. Also good for hunting down faint fuzzies because it can give a wide angle view for easy star hopping, wide enough that you can get by without a finder. But very poor on planets, it'll show the major features - you'll see Saturn's rings - but little true detail because the cheap mirror limits the magnification to about 50x.

(With the Firstscope models, watch out for the eyepieces. Most come with H and SR eyepieces which are bad. Some such as the "Cometron" variant come with much better Kellner eyepieces.)

The two more expensive Dobsonians you linked in your most recent post are much better. Parabolic mirrors mean they can give sharp high-magnification views, and the aperture is bigger, and they still have much of the same ease of use.

I advise against the Starsense Explorer 114 that you linked. It uses a "Bird-Jones" optical design that isn't very good. In a telescope costing 250 Euros you can do better.

[Nyctimene]

1 hour ago, allworlds said:

The two more expensive Dobsonians you linked in your most recent post are much better. Parabolic mirrors mean they can give sharp high-magnification views, and the aperture is bigger, and they still have much of the same ease of use.

+1 for that. I'd vote for the  Bresser Messier version; the same parabolic 130/650 optics, but a solid tube; tube weight 3.1 kg, mount 3.5 kg, so easy to handle. Your daughter will take her first steps watching the moon, planets and soon will have found out anything about tracking, focusing, changing eyepieces etc., and will move later on to more difficult targets quite naturally, so,  IMO, no electronics needed.

These boys, eleven and seven (light blue shirt) were able to handle the Skywatcher Heritage 130 P Flextube on their own the second night during their holiday visit in summer 2018:

Stephan

[Guest]

I would recommend getting the child to a astronomy outreach program before spending any money.  Outreach programs always seem to have some scopes there that are kid friendly.  So get your daughter to the local astro club and see what she likes and what works for her. 

[fcoucelo]

..

Edited January 6, 2023 by fcoucelo

[mr_belowski]

i went through a similar process last year, buying a scope for my 10 year old daughter, looking at similar options. We ended up with a Skywatcher 90mm Mak on a Virtuoso mount. It provides nice views of solar system objects and star clusters. With such a small aperture we don't miss a go-to mount - faint DSOs are too dim for such a small aperture from a suburban back garden. Finding brighter objects isn't difficult with all the other tools available. Having the mount track, however, is surprisingly useful. When her friends are there, we can line it up on Saturn for example and they can all take turns to look without me having to constantly move the scope to keep the target in view. It also makes it much easier to view targets at higher magnifications.

I ended up getting an 8 inch Dob as well, and the two complement each other nicely.

[Carbon Brush]

With any scope package your money is shared between the scope, the mount/tripod and the electronics.
The mount/tripod is always the smallest/flinsmiest mount the manufacturer can get away with providing.

As a general rule, the following provide guidance. With the warning that ree advice is worth what you pay.

With a basic dob, the mount cost is low. Almost all your money goes into the glass.

With a long refractor + tripod you risk getting a wobbly mount, which makes high power use difficult.
A short tube scope on the same mount will perform better.

If you spend on goto and mount electronics, how much is left for the glass?
No amount of clever electronics and software will make up for a lens made from old wine bottles.
Sales leaflets describe goto/electronics setup as almost non existent. Not so!

The picture of the two boys and the dob says it all to me.
The scope won't be like a sail in the wind.
No tripod to kick over in the dark.
No long electronics setup or fiddling with cables.

[jjohnson3803]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but some of the table Dobs can be mounted on a tripod if you ever want to go that way.  Also, some people have written about boring shallow holes in a wooden barstool seat for the Dob feet and putting the Dob on that.  Quite a clever idea IMO.

Edited January 5, 2023 by jjohnson3803

[Nyctimene]

On 04/01/2023 at 18:06, fcoucelo said:

 I fear I will not be very good at finding anything for my daughter nor will I know what I will be looking at to explain to my daughter.

I can understand your apprehension quite well - it's for many beginners the reason to consider a GoTo or PushTo mount. But, as CarbonBrush mentioned above, a considerable amount of money will go into the electronic parts of such mounts - and you have to learn some basics anyway (polar aligning, star aligning etc).

Neither your daughter nor you have to shy away from "learning the ropes" of stargazing. An eyepiece like a 32 mm focal length Plössl will give you together with the 130/650 Bresser a true field of view of 2.5°. That's five times the diameter of the full moon! And it's easy for your daughter to point the Red Dot Finder (RDF) at bright and conspicuous targets, as the moon, planets, bright double stars (Albireo, Castor), and Deep Sky Objects (DSO's), e.g. the Pleiades, the Orion nebula, the Double cluster, Andromeda galaxy etc. You can get good maps/atlases (Sky+Telescope's Pocket Sky Atlas PSA; link below), and, even better, apps as Stellarium or SkySafari. You can configure the display of your smartphone, so that it matches exactly the view in any of your eyepieces, which makes star hopping easy. And these apps will give additionally a lot of information about any object.

Of course, there will be a learning curve - stargazing is a learning hobby (or way of life). But you can take yourself a lot of time, and try to enjoy the shared journey. The stars won't go away, and every year the constellations will return. And this learning curve will be much more rewarding than learning how to deal with flimsy mounts, dying electronics, aligning hassles.....you get the point.

Take yourself time with the decision; and keep asking.

https://shopatsky.com/products/pocket-sky-atlas-second-edition

Stephan

[fcoucelo]

 

I’m down to these 2:

Sky-Watcher Heritage 150P used for a negotiable 250€ but I’m scared to buy it because I don’t know how to check if it’s working properly.
https://m.olx.pt/d/anuncio/telescpio-skywatcher-heritage-150p-IDHcQ9A.html

BRESSER Messier 5" Dobson Parabolic 130mm refurbished for 150€ at Bresser website.
https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Telescopes/BRESSER-Messier-5-Dobson.html

[fcoucelo]

Dear Stargazers, 

I  followed everyone’s advice and just purchased a refurbished  Bresser Dobson 130mm for 150€ with shipping to Portugal. 

The guy selling the used Heritage 150P was also selling a laptop with a big crack visable in the pictures but claiming it was in good conditions so I didn’t want to risk it and bought a 5 inch dobson directly from Bresser with 2 year warranty. 
 

@Nyctimene you suggested getting a 32mm  super Plössl, would this make a big difference compared to the included optics ?

https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Telescopes/BRESSER-Messier-5-Dobson.html

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by fcoucelo

[Padtwo]

I would have a go with the supplied eyepieces first and see how you get on. My first scope came with a 20mm and 6mm and my first upgrade was a 32mm and 15mm plossl. They were definitely a step up from the provided eyepieces but the 32mm was most useful when I was trying to find things as you see a much larger area of sky compared to a 20mm. Then once you have found what you want to look at and centered it, swap over for a stronger eyepiece. 

I also found it helpful to practice with it on terrestrial objects during the day first. Because of the way the scope works the image is inverted, so left becomes right etc, and it can take a bit of practice to work out how much to nudge it and which way to keep things in view. A bit strange when you are looking at tv aerials and chimneys, but not so much of an issue when looking at a planet or moon! It would also be worth setting up the red dot finder during the day as well on a distant object.

Nice choice of telescope, enjoy