Canon 6D conection fail

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

I have been away a while due to shed comp f'ing up, the complexities of that still to this day perplex me, but the closest I can come to is a resolution to the screen was an issue, a change to a screen with a much larger resolution, actually enabled me to see owt, yea I know, been build computers 30 years and never seen owt like it, however by this time had done so many reboots, most of what was of the setup has been lost.

Back to my question, this shed computer will not see my canon 6d, my bedroom computer can with two different cables, so I am guessing not the cables or ports on the camera, the shed computer can also see the mount, ASI camera, and everything else I plug in the usb ports, i.e. usb memory stick.

This afternoon, it briefly saw the cam, but the wifi to the house was down (repeat sender issue, I will be laying an Ethernet cable to the shed), not sure if it is important. There must be something I am missing, or forgetting, latter most likely.

Any help would be most appreciated.

 

 

[malc-c]

A brief description of how you are set up would help.  Reading your post I get the impression that you have a PC in the shed that I'm guessing is connected to the mount, guide camera and your 6D.  This has a wi-fi card / module which is on the same network as your other computers, and you possibly want to have an RDC into the shed PC so you can do the imaging sessions from the comfort of your lounge ?  - I base this on the comment regarding an ethernet cable.  What are the specs of the PC used in the shed?  Are you using any USB hubs, active or passive ?

[Ratlet]

Do you have the canon Eos utility software installed on the computer?  Can't remember the exact name of it but it's the one that lets you remotely control the camera settings.

It plays absolute hob with other software seeing the camera.  First thing is to make sure that it doesn't launch when a canon device is plugged in and then remove it from the startup programs so it's only launched when you want to.

Night not be the issue, but in my experience, if it gets a whiff of a canon camera being plugged in it prevents other stuff from seeing it (such as Nina).

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

15 hours ago, malc-c said:

A brief description of how you are set up would help.  Reading your post I get the impression that you have a PC in the shed that I'm guessing is connected to the mount, guide camera and your 6D.  This has a wi-fi card / module which is on the same network as your other computers, and you possibly want to have an RDC into the shed PC so you can do the imaging sessions from the comfort of your lounge ?  - I base this on the comment regarding an ethernet cable.  What are the specs of the PC used in the shed?  Are you using any USB hubs, active or passive ?

Hi Malcolm, thanks for your comments. I have everything set up bar the Canon connection, I even managed to recover, my ascom settings from the previous drive, and other settings. The computer ran all of these previously, no problems, although a bit laggy dragging windows from one screen to the other. My problem is getting the computer to see the camera, I have two known good cables tried them on the computer in my bedroom, tried them on different ports on the computer in the shed, nothing, bar one time when it said installing hardware, since then nothing.

The ethernet cable is just to make a good connection, the way energy prices are, I might as well heat the shed than run this system to control it, a small 250-500 watt heater would take the chill off, and I would be on hand ect. It is a biggish shed 10x6ft.

The specs of the computer to be honest are irrlevent, bar maybe it is a AMD Athlon triple core, I know some ZWO camera have a disliking but mine seems to work ok, and it did on the previous setup, same hardware.

I really think it is a driver related issue.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Nicola Hannah Butterfield

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

14 hours ago, Ratlet said:

Do you have the canon Eos utility software installed on the computer?  Can't remember the exact name of it but it's the one that lets you remotely control the camera settings.

It plays absolute hob with other software seeing the camera.  First thing is to make sure that it doesn't launch when a canon device is plugged in and then remove it from the startup programs so it's only launched when you want to.

Night not be the issue, but in my experience, if it gets a whiff of a canon camera being plugged in it prevents other stuff from seeing it (such as Nina).

Yea I know, I have it disabled on this system in my room, but stuff like APT NINA ect can see the camera, on this system as I said. The one in the shed I installed EOS utility just to see if it could connect to the camera, and nothing.

I mentioned in the previous post, there was just one time a brief indication of it (windows) installing the driver.

To my mind, it is a driver issue.

[Elp]

What's OSs have you tried and do they state any errors in the device manager (usb controllers) with the system which doesn't work?

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, Nicola Hannah Butterfield said:

Hi Malcolm, thanks for your comments. I have everything set up bar the Canon connection, I even managed to recover, my ascom settings from the previous drive, and other settings. The computer ran all of these previously, no problems, although a bit laggy dragging windows from one screen to the other. My problem is getting the computer to see the camera, I have two known good cables tried them on the computer in my bedroom, tried them on different ports on the computer in the shed, nothing, bar one time when it said installing hardware, since then nothing.

The ethernet cable is just to make a good connection, the way energy prices are, I might as well heat the shed than run this system to control it, a small 250-500 watt heater would take the chill off, and I would be on hand ect. It is a biggish shed 10x6ft.

The specs of the computer to be honest are irrlevent, bar maybe it is a AMD Athlon triple core, I know some ZWO camera have a disliking but mine seems to work ok, and it did on the previous setup, same hardware.

I really think it is a driver related issue.

Doesn't really answer my question, apart from being informed that the shed PC is an old AMD based machine, and spec is relevant.  Obviously the issue is either software / driver related as the camera works on other machines (presumably newer) but not on the one in the shed.  I doubt that it really applies, but it could be that the camera isn't supported by the chipset on the shed PCs motherboard, as the camera may be newer and need USB 2.xx or 3, and the ports on the mainboard are USB 1.0 or 2.0 (straws and clutching come to mind !).  What operating system are you running on the shed PC? - It would save people writing detailed posts telling you have to clear out ports in device manager only to then find out you are running a flavour of Linux.  

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

37 minutes ago, Elp said:

What's OSs have you tried and do they state any errors in the device manager (usb controllers) with the system which doesn't work?

Win10 as it was before, device manger doesn't show the camera, nor any errors. If I connect the ASI 120MC camera it shows.

I think what I will have to do is reinstall windows, and start with the canon, then software. I know the astronomy software on my bedroom computers was installed after the canon had been connected, I am pretty sure but not certain that is what I possibly did to the computer in the shed.

I have a copy of linux mint on a crappy laptop I acquired, but hardly ever use (struggles running the Win10 it came with), I will try it shortly but I guess it is likely to show the camera, but that isn't really helping me sort the issue in the shed.

 

[Elp]

Is WiFi turned off on the camera before connecting it via USB to the computer?

[malc-c]

3 minutes ago, Nicola Hannah Butterfield said:

Win10 as it was before, device manger doesn't show the camera, nor any errors. If I connect the ASI 120MC camera it shows.

 

So when you connect the canon camera the hardware isn't detected, yet you have proven the leads via a different PC.....  maybe a fresh install of windows, and then the canon camera driver and get the two talking first before installing the other astronomy apps might be a way forward to confirm that there is no hardware conflict

[malc-c]

A bit of googling and whilst it doesn't state windows 10 as a supportive OS, it does state XP through to Win7, so would have thought Win10 would still support it.  I did find out that the port on the camera is USB 2.0 (480 Mbit/sec), which should be compatible with the USB ports on the PCs mainboard.

[powerlord]

sounds to me like a cable issue. top tip: the vast majority of 'usb cables' that come with stuff are not usb cables - they are just charging cables - they only have 2 wires inside (earth, 5v). I bin leads that come with things I buy almost always unless I know for a fact that it is a proper usb cable. everyone is the usb committees should be transported off in the Golgafrincham Ark Fleet, Ship B imho frankly as not a single revision has been without majorly stupid features...

Because a few months later, that will be the one you pick up and try to connect to a computer. And when you try another, you can bet you'll pick another that is only a charge lead.

So - how can you tell ? well yer 6d is an old usb mini job, so do you have any other usb mini things ? if so try them with cables and sort out proper usb cables (keepers) from charge only ones (bin em).

No promises, but it fixes most usb cable issues.

Other than that - especially with usb mini and micro some cables have longer or shorter exposed metal plugs at the end - and some connections need longer ones. I don't think my 6d does, but worth a check. And of course, check yer 6d usb is actually configured on.

doesn't sound like a pc issue to me.

one other thing is the 6d can be a bit temperamental - mine has stopped powering on a few times and needed to be left with no battery in for an hour before itll work again.

So, if all the above is no good, giving it a reset is worth a punt.

stu

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

16 minutes ago, powerlord said:

sounds to me like a cable issue. top tip: the vast majority of 'usb cables' that come with stuff are not usb cables - they are just charging cables - they only have 2 wires inside (earth, 5v). I bin leads that come with things I buy almost always unless I know for a fact that it is a proper usb cable. everyone is the usb committees should be transported off in the Golgafrincham Ark Fleet, Ship B imho frankly as not a single revision has been without majorly stupid features...

Because a few months later, that will be the one you pick up and try to connect to a computer. And when you try another, you can bet you'll pick another that is only a charge lead.

So - how can you tell ? well yer 6d is an old usb mini job, so do you have any other usb mini things ? if so try them with cables and sort out proper usb cables (keepers) from charge only ones (bin em).

No promises, but it fixes most usb cable issues.

Other than that - especially with usb mini and micro some cables have longer or shorter exposed metal plugs at the end - and some connections need longer ones. I don't think my 6d does, but worth a check. And of course, check yer 6d usb is actually configured on.

doesn't sound like a pc issue to me.

one other thing is the 6d can be a bit temperamental - mine has stopped powering on a few times and needed to be left with no battery in for an hour before itll work again.

So, if all the above is no good, giving it a reset is worth a punt.

stu

It is defiantly a driver issue, as I have the computer seeing an older Canon 40D, besides my bedroom computer can see the Canon 6D with two different cables. I also have have a ac power for the 6D

 

47 minutes ago, malc-c said:

A bit of googling and whilst it doesn't state windows 10 as a supportive OS, it does state XP through to Win7, so would have thought Win10 would still support it.  I did find out that the port on the camera is USB 2.0 (480 Mbit/sec), which should be compatible with the USB ports on the PCs mainboard.

Thanks for looking, as I mentioned above I have the shed comp at least seeing the older 40D if not actually talking as such, I am doing some window updates, but whilst the wifi is connected currently it is a tad slow at times, it is some 30ft away from the reapter, but still 15mbs isn't two bad, it is only a 38mbs service anyway.

56 minutes ago, malc-c said:

So when you connect the canon camera the hardware isn't detected, yet you have proven the leads via a different PC.....  maybe a fresh install of windows, and then the canon camera driver and get the two talking first before installing the other astronomy apps might be a way forward to confirm that there is no hardware conflict

I have mooted this somewhere, might have been to the lady I help, memory really is a shed these days. I will do the updates first, if that doesn't help I guess I will have to go back to sq1.

 

59 minutes ago, Elp said:

Is WiFi turned off on the camera before connecting it via USB to the computer?

Yes.

[Elp]

May offer a solution:

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/Camera-Software/EOS-Utility-not-working-with-Windows-10/td-p/147789

With windows I sometimes find it reserves usb ports for the first device which was connected to it for some reason (esp on older OSs), and sometimes I've had to uninstall all drivers on the usb ports and try again one at a time.

Edited October 7, 2022 by Elp

[powerlord]

35 minutes ago, Nicola Hannah Butterfield said:

It is defiantly a driver issue, as I have the computer seeing an older Canon 40D, besides my bedroom computer can see the Canon 6D with two different cables. I also have have a ac power for the 6D

 

Thanks for looking, as I mentioned above I have the shed comp at least seeing the older 40D if not actually talking as such, I am doing some window updates, but whilst the wifi is connected currently it is a tad slow at times, it is some 30ft away from the reapter, but still 15mbs isn't two bad, it is only a 38mbs service anyway.

I have mooted this somewhere, might have been to the lady I help, memory really is a shed these days. I will do the updates first, if that doesn't help I guess I will have to go back to sq1.

 

Yes.

ah sorry I read that wrongly as it also didn't work with your bedroom computer.

It does make me glad I use macs. hope u get it sorted.

stu

[alacant]

3 hours ago, Nicola Hannah Butterfield said:

go back to sq1.

Hi

Here's hoping your re-install will work. If not...

A good sq1 starting point would be to obtain concrete information upon the camera and its connection.

It's possible the 'faulty' computer is trying to load the camera as a block device -such as a usb memory pen- to enable the client to download images, rather than for the same to be controlled as an imaging device. Anyway...

Remove any storage from the 6d. Now, on the Mint box, tail the system log:

tail -f /var/log/syslog

Next, with the camera (+canon lens) turned off but set to 'M', plug it into a usb2 socket. Now power the camera.

What do we see?

Cheers and HTH

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by alacant
ortografía - spell

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

3 hours ago, Elp said:

May offer a solution:

https://community.usa.canon.com/t5/Camera-Software/EOS-Utility-not-working-with-Windows-10/td-p/147789

With windows I sometimes find it reserves usb ports for the first device which was connected to it for some reason (esp on older OSs), and sometimes I've had to uninstall all drivers on the usb ports and try again one at a time.

If the updates don't work I will do that tomorrow once I have run the Ethernet cable to the shed, if they don't work I will do a fresh install, and work on the camera first. I t has to be something simple as it worked before and works on this system in my room. Thanks for you input.

3 hours ago, powerlord said:

ah sorry I read that wrongly as it also didn't work with your bedroom computer.

It does make me glad I use macs. hope u get it sorted.

stu

I will eventually, you wouldn't believe the issue that caused it to f up in the first place, I have been putting computers together some 30 odd years, and never have had so much as an issue getting even a post screen to show, even when I did get the post screen, and installed windows, I had to change the monitor to a higher res one, keyboard also seemed to be causing an issue, but much of that was it was late to responded so couldn't enter the bios or select the boot order menu, changed it for an old dell one, and it was fine.

I have been trying to save for a new system, but things being how they are, the idea is then to use this in the shed, if being an AMD FX8300 16Gb of ram, will do nicely in the shed, even now after nearly 8 years or so the only thing it really struggles with (that I use) is a full lightroom catalogue, some 130,000 images.

2 hours ago, alacant said:

Hi

Here's hoping your re-install will work. If not...

A good sq1 starting point would be to obtain concrete information upon the camera and its connection.

It's possible the 'faulty' computer is trying to load the camera as a block device -such as a usb memory pen- to enable the client to download images, rather than for the same to be controlled as an imaging device. Anyway...

Remove any storage from the 6d. Now, on the Mint box, tail the system log:

tail -f /var/log/syslog

Next, with the camera (+canon lens) turned off but set to 'M', plug it into a usb2 socket. Now power the camera.

What do we see?

Cheers and HTH

 

I was only going to try the Laptop to see, been busy and cables that work are in the shed, when the camera is used as an astro cam, images are stored on the computer, there isn't a memory card in it, like now. It is some sort of driver issue I am sure, it can at least see the Canon 40D, but shows as unrecognised or driver not loaded or some such. First thing to do tomorrow is the cables, at least that way, any reinstall will at least have a reliable connection to the net, unlike the netgear wifi extender. I did try remote connections but evry so often they would just fail, and whilst I am unlikely to do it that way often given the current cost of energy, I might in the depths of winter.

Failing that a ASi 385MC about half the FOV of the 6D or ASI183MC just a little less the 6D, they are lighter in weight too, not that it is a major concern being on a HEQ6. I enjoy imaging galaxies and the odd planet now and again, The 385 would for my current level fit the bill I have already mosaicked the moon with the narrow field of view of the 120

 

[michael8554]

Check in Task Manager that there aren't multiple instances of Canon Utilities running.

Latest W10 version of Canon Utilities ?

https://pdisp01.c-wss.com/gdl/WWUFORedirectTarget.do?id=MDIwMDAwNjY2MDAx&cmp=ABR&lang=EN

Try with the Canon's WiFi disabled, I'm not sure if that conflicts.

Nothing installed as Administrator ?

Michael  

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

Reinstalled windows, this time win 10 Pro, not Pro N which is the European version, and omits certain media stuff, plugged the camera in and presto showed up, well the 40D did, pretty sure the 6D will, from what I can gather it has to do with Media Features under Turn Win features on or off, as far as I recall, didn't really make a mental not the whilst windows media player shows as an option in Win 10 Pron N, it is just as that and not under a tab called Media Features.

A quick remote capture with the 40D using APT.

Just have to reinstall, ascom drivers eqmod, plate solving stuff, and I should be back to where I was bar the fact I have lost my BYE keys, yes I know where they are or supposed to be, but I logged into the account I have the invoice email in, and just the trial version shows, tried mailing an admin, seemed to get a reply and couldn't see it, so it looks as I will have to finally get my head round the imaging in APT, I only ever used it to plate solve.

So nothing to do with EOS utils, or ports or cables, or order of ports ect, just simply the European version is a little more tricky setting up certain things, this I believe stems back to when Microsoft were forced to offer a version without all their add-on bits, I suspect this might be the problem with many EOS connection issues even non astro related.

I might try EOS utils at some point to see, but for now it is working, the other possible (not very likely) is when I did the reinstallation having run the Ethernet cable to the shed, it could do certain updates when installing, I never did supply the wireless key when installing previously, knowing the connection to be a little flaky, other benefits of the cable is that it is almost twice as fast doing an internet speed test up from 15Mbps (or so) to 30ish. So hopefully will get a much better remote connection, both are on the same 1Gb switch, the only drawback I see is the Athlon's age, but it works.

 

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

Just did a quick file transfer from bedroom comp to shed, over remote connection, and it is about 98Mbs

1,495,996,440 bytes,

so 11,967,971,520 bits,

122.31's

if I have it right 93.32MB which isn't far off the 100MB/s for a Gigabit network.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Nicola Hannah Butterfield

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

Update, not currently too well, but managed to get ascom, eqmod, sharpcap and PHD2 installed, whilst not tried the latter two, the scope is working and the camera, still need to install ASI drivers and plate solving. Once this is all done, you can guaranty it will rain for the nest two months.

 

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

Finally, sort of up and running, the mount just needed manually aligning with Jupiter as the previous alignment data seems ok (the mount hasn't moved), managed 30 to 60's with little tracking errors that I can see, not that I did any exhaustive imaging. I did however image the moon and a 30's exposure on Uranus and Neptune easily make out Triton.

Neptune

Uranus

 

 

All just single exposures, all on my SW 200P f/5 and Canon 6D.

I still have an issue though with APT and it crashing whilst using the Canon, NINA seemed ok, When I looked at the raw files in Microsoft Photos it seemed to crash the comp, not sure about this though as earlier when I had installed everything and inserted a USB sound card, it started doing this, so I did a system restore having forgotten I made it before I installed all the ascom/eqmod/phd2 ect so and to redo all those, after reinstalling everything and having removed the sound card, it is the only time it crashed, we will see,

APT is bothering me though, it is possibly a dodgy connection as BYE used to fail on occasions, I have a dummy battery coming for my 40D which I will try out. This hasn't had it's usb port used much, so if that proves better it could be the port on the camera. I love the new feature in APT and the ability to focus a Canon lens. I have a few, so looking forward to trying some wider views.

[malc-c]

30 minutes ago, Nicola Hannah Butterfield said:

I still have an issue though with APT and it crashing whilst using the Canon, NINA seemed ok, When I looked at the raw files in Microsoft Photos it seemed to crash the comp, not sure about this though as earlier when I had installed everything and inserted a USB sound card, it started doing this, so I did a system restore having forgotten I made it before I installed all the ascom/eqmod/phd2 ect so and to redo all those, after reinstalling everything and having removed the sound card, it is the only time it crashed, we will see,

 

It sounds to me as if this is related to the USB hubs on the old motherboard.  The main board ports will all route through a hub controller on the main board, and seeing that the common denominator of crashes is when you connect or disconnect a USB device seems to suggest the issue may well be hardware related.

[Nicola Hannah Butterfield]

17 minutes ago, malc-c said:

It sounds to me as if this is related to the USB hubs on the old motherboard.  The main board ports will all route through a hub controller on the main board, and seeing that the common denominator of crashes is when you connect or disconnect a USB device seems to suggest the issue may well be hardware related.

That might be the case to do with APT as I said it happened on occasion with BYE, and as it is only APT that crashes not the system, it might well be hardware, but it didn't happen with NINA. I can try running the Canon through the USB3 card see if that helps, I installed a USB3 for doing planetary images, so I can get the maximum frame rate on offer. I will wait till I can try the Canon 40D to make any sort of conclusions, as I personally think it is a poor cable connection somewhere, that said APT did freeze on this computer with the Canon 40D

The computer crash is a different ball game, as far as I recall it only happened the once after the system restore and happened as I was opening a CR2 file to view in Photos (the win program), it may or may not be related.

One thing I did notice is NINA would connect to the Canon if I had my USB drive in a USB2 it was getting late by this time so didn't explore further. If up to it this afternoon I might do some testing. I have a new ascom focuser to fit as well, with this I should be able to remote control the scope from my room.

[malc-c]

How old is the PC in the shed that you are having all these issues with.  Any details of make and model of the main board, processor and RAM info would be helpful.  A crash opening a CR2 raw file shouldn't crash the PC, and you shouldn't be getting all these lockups when plugging or unmounting a USB device