Skywatcher AZ5 sudden problem

[LaurenceT]

Quite suddenly a couple of days ago the mount stopped responding in the azimuth to slow-mo control, the altitude was fine. The only way I could get it to respond was by completely screwing down the knurled knob. It also developed some slack movement in the AZ of about 7mm. It doesn't sound much but when viewing at high magnification simply touching the scope focus control this movement was enough to put the object, in this case Jupiter, almost out of view in the eyepiece, very irritating. I can't find anyway to tighten anything to prevent this "wobble" and I'm reluctant to open anything up in case I void the warranty, I bought the mount in January of this year. I've messaged the vendor so I'll just have await their reply.

[ONIKKINEN]

Did you try adjusting the 3 philips head screws under the mount and not just the allen head ones on the side? You probably did, but if you've had the mount on a tripod all this time you might have missed them so worth a shot at least.

[LaurenceT]

Thanks for that, I did have a look at those 3 screws earlier and they do look as though they may be integral to that free play in the AZ but they are all tightened down to the maximum already and I'm not inclined to interfere with them.

Although I can sort of cope with the lack of AZ control unless that knob is screwed tight it's this free play in AZ that makes the scope unusable at high mags. 

[Ratlet]

EDIT:  Just seen that you're not wanting to risk voiding the warranty.  Hopefully the vendor will reply with an answer.  I'll leave the below for you though in case they do ask you to check the work gear.

You can remove the panel with the grub screw and check that the carrier for the brass worm gear isn't damaged:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/794915-skywatcher-az5-deluxe-mount-azimuth-control-not-working/

Edited September 12, 2022 by Ratlet

[LaurenceT]

7 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

EDIT:  Just seen that you're not wanting to risk voiding the warranty.  Hopefully the vendor will reply with an answer.  I'll leave the below for you though in case they do ask you to check the work gear.

You can remove the panel with the grub screw and check that the carrier for the brass worm gear isn't damaged:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/794915-skywatcher-az5-deluxe-mount-azimuth-control-not-working/

Thanks, I had seen that item but as you point out I didn't investigate because of the warranty problem. I suspect that if that carrier was indeed fractured like that then there would be zero AZ movement regardless of how tight the knurled knob was tightened.

[LaurenceT]

 

FLO have just sent me an email saying they are replacing the AZ5 with a new one. I'm pretty fed up with some of Skywatchers basic engineering and for a few moments was considering asking them to send a Scopetech Zero instead. However, the cost differential is considerable and the heaviest scope I'll be putting on it will be my Mak 127 so buying the Scopetech would probably just be a vanity purchase.

[Ratlet]

Was there any indication as to the problem?

[LaurenceT]

29 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

Was there any indication as to the problem?

Nothing said but it was becoming deficient in several areas, backlash, erratic azimuth movement and finally general wobble.

[LaurenceT]

Apparently the AZ5 replacement is already out of the door and their policy is to only replace like for like, fingers crossed then that this AZ5 is up to the job.

At least I've saved some money!

[jjohnson3803]

Interesting.  My AZ5 has performed as expected for the past couple of years.  

 

I also have a ScopeTech Zero and I'm not sure it was worth the price.  It's good, but seems to have some idosyncracies like many mounts.  But it could just be my Manfrotto 475B tripod.  Might try an Innorel RT90C just to see...  😉

Edited September 28, 2022 by jjohnson3803

[Ratlet]

4 minutes ago, jjohnson3803 said:

Interesting.  My AZ5 has performed as expected for the past couple of years.  

 

I also have a ScopeTech Zero and I'm not sure it was worth the price.  It's good, but seems to have some idosyncracies like many mounts.  But it could just be my Manfrotto 475B tripod.  Might try an Innorel RT90C just to see...  😉

I've got a baby brother version of the RT90C with an az5 and 130pds.  Hang a bang of engineering bricks of the bottom for stability and it's pretty darn stable.

[LaurenceT]

My replacement AZ5 has arrived, there is a small amount of azimuth backlash that I can't correct but it doesn't really detract from performance.

There is also a very small amount of rotational wobble in the azimuth that cannot be overcome by tightening any knobs but if it doesn't get worse I can live with it.

[AstroNebulee]

On 28/09/2022 at 20:02, LaurenceT said:

My replacement AZ5 has arrived, there is a small amount of azimuth backlash that I can't correct but it doesn't really detract from performance.

There is also a very small amount of rotational wobble in the azimuth that cannot be overcome by tightening any knobs but if it doesn't get worse I can live with it.

Hi Laurance 

Just revisiting your thread as I have just ordered an AZ5 mount using money saved and Xmas money. How are you finding your new AZ5mount now you've been using it a while and any tips you could pass on when mo one arrives. 

I've gotten back into the visual world and having a hiatus from Dso imaging. 

Cheers 

Lee 

[LaurenceT]

16 minutes ago, AstroNebulee said:

Hi Laurance 

Just revisiting your thread as I have just ordered an AZ5 mount using money saved and Xmas money. How are you finding your new AZ5mount now you've been using it a while and any tips you could pass on when mo one arrives. 

I've gotten back into the visual world and having a hiatus from Dso imaging. 

Cheers 

Lee 

Good morning Lee,

Generally I find the AZ5 quite good to use, the only real niggle is the backlash in the azimuth control. This was also apparent with my first copy which I had to return to FLO as the azimuth control eventually became so loose that simply changing the zoom settings in the eyepiece caused the mount to move so much the object disappeared from the view. I could have opened it up but didn't want to void the warranty. This copy still has some azimuth backlash but I can live with it. I think it's a good value for money mount despite the shortcoming, the slow motion controls are a must for me. What tripod will you be using?

[AstroNebulee]

59 minutes ago, LaurenceT said:

Good morning Lee,

Generally I find the AZ5 quite good to use, the only real niggle is the backlash in the azimuth control. This was also apparent with my first copy which I had to return to FLO as the azimuth control eventually became so loose that simply changing the zoom settings in the eyepiece caused the mount to move so much the object disappeared from the view. I could have opened it up but didn't want to void the warranty. This copy still has some azimuth backlash but I can live with it. I think it's a good value for money mount despite the shortcoming, the slow motion controls are a must for me. What tripod will you be using?

Thank you Laurence. It was the cheapest decent alt az mount I've seen dispite the backlash and had it in my wishlist for a while. I know you don't want to open it up to void warranty, I don't know the inner workings yet but wonder if some ptfe tape on the slow mo worm or a meatier clutch thumbscrew coukd help the issue. I will be using it with a celestron 1.25" steel tripod .i do have the star adventurer tripod but will be to flimsy judging by my experiences with the az gti and reviews. 

Lee 

[LaurenceT]

That's a decent tripod to eliminate vibration, should work very well. I'm no engineer but I'll have a think about your suggestion.

[AstroNebulee]

Yes much sturdier than the SA one. I will see if someone online has opened up an AZ5 to see what the workings are like. I'm no engineer either haha. 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

4 hours ago, AstroNebulee said:

Hi Laurance 

Just revisiting your thread as I have just ordered an AZ5 mount using money saved and Xmas money. How are you finding your new AZ5mount now you've been using it a while and any tips you could pass on when mo one arrives. 

I've gotten back into the visual world and having a hiatus from Dso imaging. 

Cheers 

Lee 

Lee you may be lucky and not need to fettle the AZ5. I've had mine three years and the mount works just the same as it did when I bought it...

Without any tweaks or maintenance (😱), the AZ5 has outlived an Explorer 130PS, Explorer P150i, Startravel 120 and Skymax 102. It's currently used with a Skymax 127 and Altair 102ED...

From all the above, the 130PS was the most stable. Ergonomically just about perfect with the slomo cables removed and just using the short knobs. I could stand there all night with that scope mounted on the AZ5 at a perfect height.

Enjoy your new mount. The AZ5 is great for very small, short refractors (the Skywatcher 72ED DS-Pro for instance), Maks 127 and below, 130mm reflectors & 5" SCTs. Anything else starts getting a bit awkward due to the short slomo cables and focussing vibration is not so great at higher powers with longer scopes.

[Franklin]

The problem with small alt-az mounts like the AZ5, Twilight and Porta, are that the bolt that holds each axis together is fastened with a Nyloc locking nut and if too much weight is put on the mount these nylon lined nuts can work loose. When assembled at the factory they also put a drop of thread-lock on them but they can and do work loose. Most folk just tighten them back up which is only a temporary solution. Nyloc locking nuts are non-re-usable and should be replaced, again with thread-lock adhesive. I've bought a few of these style mounts, secondhand over the years and have repaired them successfully.

[Franklin]

Also, for backlash, the mesh of the worm and gear should be adjustable. It certainly is on the Porta, where a center offset washer can be turned to increase/decrease the worm/gear mesh and then held in place via grub screws.

[Ratlet]

I've also got the AZ5 and will give a mini review as a noob.

I've been using it with a 130pds and originally had it on a carbon fibre tripod from innorel.  It worked pretty well but I found that somewhere around x160 power with an 8mm eyepiece and x2 Barlow it suffered from some fairly annoying vibrations.  It was to the point that I had to hover over the eyepiece or it was basically unusable.

For a while I assumed it was the mount but one day I tried it with the legs of the tripod not extended and the vibrations largely disappeared.

Based on that I bought a skywatcher 1.75" steel tripod.  Even with the legs fully extended the vibrations are largely gone at high power, still a bit of wobble but it does down quickly.

The slow mo cables a re really easy to access without the extension when I use the small Newtonian.  There is a bit of backlash but quite quickly you get used to it.  Once I get the tension set I quickly get a feel for the backlash and kind of automatically adjust for it.

I think it's a very fun mount to use.  Star hopping is easy since you can push to a bright star and slowmo to your destination.

There is a grub screw for adjustments to the worm gear on each axis.  You can fettle with these to... Do something to it.  I know I did, but honestly I can't remember what or why I did it or if it made it better. 🤣

 

[AstroNebulee]

2 hours ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Lee you may be lucky and not need to fettle the AZ5. I've had mine three years and the mount works just the same as it did when I bought it...

Without any tweaks or maintenance (😱), the AZ5 has outlived an Explorer 130PS, Explorer P150i, Startravel 120 and Skymax 102. It's currently used with a Skymax 127 and Altair 102ED...

From all the above, the 130PS was the most stable. Ergonomically just about perfect with the slomo cables removed and just using the short knobs. I could stand there all night with that scope mounted on the AZ5 at a perfect height.

Enjoy your new mount. The AZ5 is great for very small, short refractors (the Skywatcher 72ED DS-Pro for instance), Maks 127 and below, 130mm reflectors & 5" SCTs. Anything else starts getting a bit awkward due to the short slomo cables and focussing vibration is not so great at higher powers with longer scopes.

 

2 hours ago, Franklin said:

The problem with small alt-az mounts like the AZ5, Twilight and Porta, are that the bolt that holds each axis together is fastened with a Nyloc locking nut and if too much weight is put on the mount these nylon lined nuts can work loose. When assembled at the factory they also put a drop of thread-lock on them but they can and do work loose. Most folk just tighten them back up which is only a temporary solution. Nyloc locking nuts are non-re-usable and should be replaced, again with thread-lock adhesive. I've bought a few of these style mounts, secondhand over the years and have repaired them successfully.

 

22 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I've also got the AZ5 and will give a mini review as a noob.

I've been using it with a 130pds and originally had it on a carbon fibre tripod from innorel.  It worked pretty well but I found that somewhere around x160 power with an 8mm eyepiece and x2 Barlow it suffered from some fairly annoying vibrations.  It was to the point that I had to hover over the eyepiece or it was basically unusable.

For a while I assumed it was the mount but one day I tried it with the legs of the tripod not extended and the vibrations largely disappeared.

Based on that I bought a skywatcher 1.75" steel tripod.  Even with the legs fully extended the vibrations are largely gone at high power, still a bit of wobble but it does down quickly.

The slow mo cables a re really easy to access without the extension when I use the small Newtonian.  There is a bit of backlash but quite quickly you get used to it.  Once I get the tension set I quickly get a feel for the backlash and kind of automatically adjust for it.

I think it's a very fun mount to use.  Star hopping is easy since you can push to a bright star and slowmo to your destination.

There is a grub screw for adjustments to the worm gear on each axis.  You can fettle with these to... Do something to it.  I know I did, but honestly I can't remember what or why I did it or if it made it better. 🤣

 

Thank you for your help and advice guys. I'm really looking forward to using the mount and it will be much better than the old eq mount on my sa tripod that I use now for certain and be less prone to vibration I am used to with that combo, when using my Meade 80mm F10 bazooka, so it should be heaps better on the AZ5 and celestron tripod. The scope with 9x50 raci FS, diagonal and zoom ep comes in at 2.4kg, then when the used telrad arrives that'll be fitted. Then the odd occasion when a bit of Lunar/planetary imaging with the Canon 600D still be well under the payload capacity. Hoping to get back into some nice visual action and clusters, double stars and lunar drooling. 

Lee