Barlow with zoom piece

[Mart29]

Hello guys, looking for a decent x2 Barlow for jupiter   ,  Saturn etc 

I have a rubbish cheap one. 

Any recommendations for a soild Barlow 🙃

[Zeta Reticulan]

You could put a zoom into a Barlow.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Zeta Reticulan

[Mr Spock]

How much do you want to spend? Do you want 1.25" or 2"? What eyepieces and scope are you using? All this information will help.

Meanwhile:
Reasonable cost, high quality 2" https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/skywatcher-ed-deluxe-2x-two-inch-barlow-lens.html - I use one similar to this from the same manufacturer.
Quality 2x and 3x 1.25" https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/tele-vue-barlows.html 
Alternative quality 2x and 3x 1.25" https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/explore-scientific-2x-3x-5x-barlow-focal-extender-125.html
Expensive but worth it 2.5x 1.25" and x2 2" Powermates https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/tele-vue-powermates.html

[Mart29]

Not bothered about the cost as long as its well made and will last.

1.25,  using OOUK VX6L . Will be using my zoom 25 to 9 

[Mr Spock]

I'd recommend the x2.5 Powermate. At 25mm with a 1.25" Barlow, there will be a little vignetting. That doesn't happen with a Powermate. It will also give you the equivalent of 10mm to 3.6mm with your zoom eyepiece which is a nice fit with the 25mm to 9mm. 

[Mart29]

Perfect , thank you ! Will order one tomorrow 

[Ricochet]

Historically, the empirical optimum for planetary observing is 25X - 30X per inch of aperture. This equates to 1X - 1.2X per mm of aperture or an exit pupil of 1 - 0.85mm. Multiplying the exit pupil by the f ratio of the telescope (f11) gives the focal length of the eyepiece(s) required for these limits. That means that in your f11 scope your optimum planetary eyepiece is probably in the range of 11 - 9mm and equates to magnifications in the range of 150X - 183x. These are good magnifications for observing Jupiter at and in the UK are high enough that you will often be hitting atmospheric limits as well as/before telescope limits. There may be nothing wrong with your current barlow and your troubles may stem from the fact that every time you try to use one you are pushing the magnification above the limit of your eye/telescope/atmosphere. Your existing 10mm Ultima edge is a decent eyepiece and the one I would be using if I were you. The 8-24mm zoom you have is nowhere near as good an eyepiece and probably degrading the image significantly. If you really want a zoom the Baader is a decent option but probably not as good an eyepiece as your Ultima edge. Beyond that there is a Pentax 8-24 zoom, the new APM 7.7-15.4mm zoom or high end spotting scope eyepieces adapted for astro use.

Personally, my preference for planetary viewing is to use binoviewers. Using two eyes gives the optical illusion of the image being larger at the same magnification, allows your brain to process the image from both eyes to give a clearer image and makes for a relaxed viewing experience. Binoviewers have a long light path, typically about 110mm, which to use natively requires a focuser that can be wound in by the same distance. To get around this a barlow or gpc has to be added to the binoviewer to move the focal plane out of the telescope so that the focuser does not have to be wound in so much. This results in high magnification so eyepieces of longer focal length must be used compared to monoviewing. I recently received a pair of Baader Maxbright 2 binoviewers and they are a truly excellent piece of kit. Using the 1.7x Newtonian GPC they require 31mm of back focus (winding the focuser in) compared to the focus position when monoviewing (according to the specifications, I haven't measured this myself). The GPC also requires a 2" focuser fitting. However, they are quite expensive, you then need two of each eyepiece and I don't know what the current situation is with the supply chain. It took two years for mine to be delivered due to covid issues.

 

[Guest]

Here is my favorite barlows. This one is a 2 inch, i also have a 1.25 inch.  They are branded Orion, but i forget who actually makes them.  They do a wonderful job.  

Edited August 21, 2022 by Mike Q

[Zeta Reticulan]

3 hours ago, Mike Q said:

Here is my favorite barlows. This one is a 2 inch, i also have a 1.25 inch.  They are branded Orion, but i forget who actually makes them.  They do a wonderful job.  

I think they're made by JOC.

[Mr Spock]

Orion (US) isn't available in the UK or Europe, so, not really worth recommending 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I think they're made by JOC.

That actually sounds right. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Mr Spock said:

Orion (US) isn't available in the UK or Europe, so, not really worth recommending 

I know they shut down their warehouse over there, but as far as i am aware the dealer network is still alive and well.  But you guys in the UK have FLO, so you dont need Orion anyway.  I wish FLO had a branch over here to be honest with you 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Mike Q

[Zeta Reticulan]

1 minute ago, Mike Q said:

That actually sounds right. 

Well, it's an educated guess, as JOC seems to make about 80% of this stuff lol.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

Well, it's an educated guess, as JOC seems to make about 80% of this stuff lol.

Someone once said who made them and that does sound right. 

[Zeta Reticulan]

1 minute ago, Mike Q said:

I know they shut down their warehouse over there, but as far as i am aware the dealer network is still alive and well.  

It's not so easy to find Orion stuff here at the moment. I'm not sure how this is going to play out.

[Zeta Reticulan]

1 minute ago, Mike Q said:

Someone once said who made them and that does sound right. 

I believe Meade were acquired by Jinghua Optics & Electronics at one time. There is also a Bresser link somewhere.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

It's not so easy to find Orion stuff here at the moment. I'm not sure how this is going to play out.

Like i answered in a different post.  The reality is you guys have FLO, they have the same stuff Orion has just with different names.  Plus they carry stuff Orion doesnt. If FLO had a branch here.... I would be using them.  I just don't trust getting a telescope through customs and having ot survive

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I believe Meade were acquired by Jinghua Optics & Electronics at one time. There is also a Bresser link somewhere.

Meade is now owned by Orion.  Big lawsuit, dont ask as i dont know the details.  Now Orion is reshoring product manufacturing to North America.....meaning made in Mexico. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Mike Q

[Zeta Reticulan]

Just now, Mike Q said:

Like i answered in a different post.  The reality is you guys have FLO, they have the same stuff Orion has just with different names.  Plus they carry stuff Orion doesnt. If FLO had a branch here.... I would be using them.  I just don't trust getting a telescope through customs and having ot survive

I'm not totally sure where Orion source from.

Plus some of their products are a tad bespoke. This 90mm Mak' is Synta, but AFAIK no else does a 90mm with a Vixen style dovetail. 

[Zeta Reticulan]

6 minutes ago, Mike Q said:

Meade is now owned by Orion.  Big lawsuit, dont ask as i dont know the details.  Now Orion is reshoring product manufacturing to North America.....meaning made in Mexico. 

I've lost track lol. I'm pretty sure Orion are not an OEM.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Zeta Reticulan

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I've lost track lol. I'm pretty sure Orion are not an OEM.

Orion dobs are GSO.  Not sure about the other scopes they sell.  At some point there was a relationship with Synta, not sure where that is at but i think it went away.  A handful of months ago Orion customers were notified that production of Meade telescopes were be reshored to North America to get away from supply issues within China.  Thats about all I know

[Zeta Reticulan]

1 minute ago, Mike Q said:

Orion dobs are GSO.  Not sure about the other scopes they sell.  At some point there was a relationship with Synta, not sure where that is at but i think it went away.  A handful of months ago Orion customers were notified that production of Meade telescopes were be reshored to North America to get away from supply issues within China.  Thats about all I know

I honestly don't know. I know Orion sourced from GSO, and probably a fair bit from Synta and Barsta at one stage. Distributors like Orion have to rely on OEM's to manufacture their products. Any changes will disrupt supply chains. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Zeta Reticulan said:

I honestly don't know. I know Orion sourced from GSO, and probably a fair bit from Synta and Barsta at one stage. Distributors like Orion have to rely on OEM's to manufacture their products. Any changes will disrupt supply chains. 

We are waiting to see how all that shakes out.  I hope to be ordering another scope by the end of the year and it will probably come from Orion.  I will look for the made in label lol

[Guest]

And sorry... We have gotten way off topic

[Mart29]

7 hours ago, Ricochet said:

Historically, the empirical optimum for planetary observing is 25X - 30X per inch of aperture. This equates to 1X - 1.2X per mm of aperture or an exit pupil of 1 - 0.85mm. Multiplying the exit pupil by the f ratio of the telescope (f11) gives the focal length of the eyepiece(s) required for these limits. That means that in your f11 scope your optimum planetary eyepiece is probably in the range of 11 - 9mm and equates to magnifications in the range of 150X - 183x. These are good magnifications for observing Jupiter at and in the UK are high enough that you will often be hitting atmospheric limits as well as/before telescope limits. There may be nothing wrong with your current barlow and your troubles may stem from the fact that every time you try to use one you are pushing the magnification above the limit of your eye/telescope/atmosphere. Your existing 10mm Ultima edge is a decent eyepiece and the one I would be using if I were you. The 8-24mm zoom you have is nowhere near as good an eyepiece and probably degrading the image significantly. If you really want a zoom the Baader is a decent option but probably not as good an eyepiece as your Ultima edge. Beyond that there is a Pentax 8-24 zoom, the new APM 7.7-15.4mm zoom or high end spotting scope eyepieces adapted for astro use.

Personally, my preference for planetary viewing is to use binoviewers. Using two eyes gives the optical illusion of the image being larger at the same magnification, allows your brain to process the image from both eyes to give a clearer image and makes for a relaxed viewing experience. Binoviewers have a long light path, typically about 110mm, which to use natively requires a focuser that can be wound in by the same distance. To get around this a barlow or gpc has to be added to the binoviewer to move the focal plane out of the telescope so that the focuser does not have to be wound in so much. This results in high magnification so eyepieces of longer focal length must be used compared to monoviewing. I recently received a pair of Baader Maxbright 2 binoviewers and they are a truly excellent piece of kit. Using the 1.7x Newtonian GPC they require 31mm of back focus (winding the focuser in) compared to the focus position when monoviewing (according to the specifications, I haven't measured this myself). The GPC also requires a 2" focuser fitting. However, they are quite expensive, you then need two of each eyepiece and I don't know what the current situation is with the supply chain. It took two years for mine to be delivered due to covid issues.

 

@Ricochet agreed . Going to give the Ultima edge a decent chance ( as i didn't tbh ) 

And this should arrive Tuesday,  between them two should have it covered.