Can I use the Skywatcher Startravel 102 SynScan AZ GOTO for deep space astrophotography?

[ZackAttack95]

Hi guys, 

I'm looking into buying the Skywatcher Startravel 102 SynScan AZ GOTO as my first telescope and I was wondering if its a good telescope for deep space astrophotography? I'm wanting to be able to take good quality images of nebulae, galaxy's and the planets.

If its no good would anyone be able to recommend me a decent telescope around the £400 to £450 price mark please. 

I will be attaching my Canon 5d to the scope for image capture.

Thank you 

Edited October 5, 2021 by ZackAttack95

[The Lazy Astronomer]

Hi and welcome to SGL!

Pre warning here: you are about to go down an endless rabbit hole with astrophotography.

Next warning: no one telescope will do planets and deep sky objects well. I'm going on the assumption for now that you're mainly interested in DSOs, so what l say below may not be relevant if you're more interested in the moon and planets. 

As you already have a camera, rather than a telescope, I might suggest you get yourself a camera tracking mount, such as the Skywatcher star adventurer or the ioptron skyguider pro and take some photos using camera lenses (you can often pick up half decent used ones for not very much money). Personally, l would say the setup you mention is not particularly suited to photography - it's more of visual setup.

People often think you need a large telescope to get pictures of objects in space, but a lot of the typical 'beginner objects' are quite large (the Andromeda galaxy, for example, is several times the size of the full moon).

Have a search around on the forums and you'll see loads of examples of what can be done with even basic lenses.

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

1 hour ago, ZackAttack95 said:

I'm looking into buying the Skywatcher Startravel 102 SynScan AZ GOTO as my first telescope and I was wondering if its a good telescope for deep space astrophotography? I'm wanting to be able to take good quality images of nebulae, galaxy's and the planets.

I have one of these and it is best suited for two things:

as a visual widefield scope for comet hunting, star clusters etc

As an instrument for EVAA (electronically assisted astronomy) and basic dabbling with imaging.  

If you want "good quality images" you should look at getting an ED or APO refractor.

It is not suited for anything to do with planets - it has too much chromatic aberration etc.

[Clarkey]

Just to add to the comments above. Your budget is quite limited for AP and an AZ mount is generally not particularly good for DS imaging (but not impossible). I think a camera lens and tracker is a good starting point as a good EQ mount is not in your price range. The ST 102 OK for widefield observation, but not really suited to AP. A couple of links for interest:

 

 

[MalcolmM]

I had a startravel on an alt/az mount. I tried some very basic photography with a DSLR attached. I found bright stars were always surrounded by a bright blue halo! So I would second the sentiments of good for wide field visual but not good for AP.

[The Admiral]

That first link is a long thread, but well worth checking out. AZ mounts are perfectly capable for astro photography, though for good results there are limits. If you don't already own such a mount, then it's probably worth going for an EQ mount in the first instance.

Ian

[pete_81]

I've just purchased a (second-hand) ST102 and using it to get into AP. The issue I see in your plan is the Alt-AZ mount.
Basically, whilst this mount can 'track' the night sky motion from East-West, it doesn't rotate with it on what we call the Equatorial.

I have a very large telescope (well, 1.2m length, 250mm diameter) and had the issue with it that I only used it to do 'visual' observing but then wanted to start a little AP so needed a (£1.5k) mount to cope with it. I've still not used this for imaging, but rather used my camera lenses with the very expensive tripod to track the night sky and start into AP. Then got the ST102 to use a 'telescope' and get started into AP with telescope.

I'd agree with Clarkey's comment - possibly the tracking mount and use your DSLR gear, then invest in a better mount & scope and build up from there.

Lazy Astronomer's comment about the endless rabbit hole though... VERY true!

Are you more interested in visual or doing imaging? If only the latter, then that's ok - use a tracking mount with DSLR. If visual (adding eyepieces to camera lenses just isn't done, so) you'll need telescope and use for both. Don't dismiss the ST102 as imaging potential though, it's cheaper and you can upgrade once you've got the bug. But mount is probably the thing to pay attention to.

HTH

[ZackAttack95]

Thank you everyone for your reply, the information is really helpful (if not a bit overwhelming). I have only just started in this journey but have always had a passion for space exploration and have always wanted a telescope.

To Answer pete-81, At first I just wanted a telescope to see planets, nebulae and galaxy's and when looking into it, it kind of changed to AP as well as I never thought it possible to capture these sort of images without spending extream amounts of money but now i know its possible I really want to do both. 

I originally ordered a skywatcher classic 200p dobsonian as I thought I would be able to do both on that then discoverd that I needed a tracking mount to eliminate star trails (you can guess that my heart sank when I discovered that) so I canceld that order and have been on the look out for one that can do both relatively well but have just been lost in information. 

If anyone could send some links to equipment that would be greatly appreciated.

Edited October 5, 2021 by ZackAttack95

[Cosmic Geoff]

Assuming that one telescope can do everything is a fundamental error.   Even on the visual side,one has to choose whether one wants a portable or semi-portable instrument, GoTo or manual, and  on the imaging side, what kind of object you want to image.  Hardware for imaging planets will be different from that for imaging deep space objects.  And a setup that can image the whole of M31 or a large nebula won't do for imaging a small distant galaxy or a small planetary nebula.

You should assume that unless you want to concentrate on one particular aspect of amateur astronomy, you  will eventually be owning more than one telescope and camera.

[happy-kat]

Seeing as you own a 5d what lenses do you already own?

Imaging can be done successfully with a camera lens and if you own suitable lenses already this might help your choices

[malc-c]

The problem with recommending equipment is that everyone will have differing opinions and budgets.  It also depends on what exactly you are expecting to get in terms of results.  Often people lurk on forums or see nice detailed images of galaxies and expect to get the same on kit costing a few hundred quid... and the get disappointed when they see the results they get, and the scope then sits in the cupboard gathering dust.  So here are some basics things to consider.

• Whilst is is possible to use an ALT AZ mount you will soon find that its limitation in not being able to rotate along the same axis as the Earth will impact the images as it shortens the exposure times before "field rotation" is noticeable.   Therefore an EQ mount is really the tool for the job if you are serious and want decent images.
• Unless you are spending a huge sum of money on a mount it will need to be guided to keep those images of faint targets nice and sharp.  That means the mount needs to be motorised and be able to handle a decent payload that includes the guide camera and guide scope or OAG.
• Planets need high magnification, that means long focal lengths.  Longer focal lengths means less resolution, so you need aperture as well.  That's why some of the images seen in magazines are taken through 12" or more catadioptric telescopes which provide excellent resolution at that high magnification.  You'll still be able to take a picture on an ST102, but all you'll get is a small bright disk.
• On the other side of the coin, deep sky stuff  is best suited to large aperture, fast scopes with short focal lengths. A 6" reflector is really IMO the entry point for imaging DSO's.
• So, you can see that with either a large refractor or reflector, plus all the guiding gubbings a decent mount is needed, which is why a lot of people recommend an HEQ5.  But an Explorer 150P on an EQ5 goto is possibly what I would consider as being the minimum entry level DSO imaging rig.
• We mentioned guiding.  In order to get those really nice images it requires lots and lots of multiple images all stacked together.  In order to do that you need to automate the process, so that involves some form of computer running the software (most is free or just a few ££ pa subscription) to drive the mount, guide it, and operate the camera.  You can do the process manually, but it's far simpler to let the computer take control.  It does this by tracking the movement of a star, and then sends small correcting pulses inn the opposite direction to compensate.
• But there are other aspects of astrophotography - Wide field.  - Get a decent tracking mount for under £400 and bolt your existing camera to it.  Use anything form 38mm to 300mm lenses and take some images of the milky way, constellations or larger galaxies and nebula....
• The biggest thing to consider when getting into imaging is budget. - Do you have deep pockets ? - You never really get satisfied, and can easily be drawn in.  A good friend of mine who has had several images published on the cover of Astronomy Now and other leading publications dipped his toe into imaging with a digital SLR on a explorer 200P on and HEQ5 mount....  He now has an EQ8, with a dual mounted scope, in a purpose built observatory with a camera that cost more than my second hand Volvo V70 when I purchased it when the car was just 7 years old...  but seeing the quality of the images he gets, and those of others that are in that league you need that level of equipment.

So have a real long think of what subjects really interest you, what sort of results are you looking at achieving (plenty of examples on the forum so you can see what's possible with what type of kit), and work out a budget.  Then with a narrower selection of kit available people could comment further.  But also accept that we all have our own opinions, and you will often get confliction advice.  That's not to say the advice is wrong, but simply because we all do things differently, have different budgets, different expectations and none of us can test drive all the equipment as a result, we can only pass on what we've experienced, or how we went about things.

[The Admiral]

41 minutes ago, pete_81 said:

The issue I see in your plan is the Alt-AZ mount.
Basically, whilst this mount can 'track' the night sky motion from East-West, it doesn't rotate with it on what we call the Equatorial.

This is perfectly true, but it doesn't mean that you can't get decent images with an AZ mount. The "No EQ DSO Challenge" thread linked to above has lots of successful images to prove it. I already had mine so used it, but I think if you are embarking on astrophotography from scratch, and don't have any gear at all, you need to appreciate that it is a long journey, and to get the best images then you're going to be needing an EQ mount. At the end of the day, whether an image is 'decent enough' depends on what you want to get out of your astronomy. But as the Lazy Astronomer said, it is a deep vortex that needs to be fed with ever more gear . Having said that, nothing beats actually getting an image of an object that you can't see with your own eyes, even through a telescope, in full colour. It may not be a perfect image, but it's far better than not having tried.

I think there is always a temptation in giving answers to questions like this, that one is liable to put one's own stamp on things, having lots of experience, and ultimately disillusioning the person asking the question. Basically, with limited cash and wanting to get into astronomy, where would you start?

Ian

[pete_81]

Hi Zach,

Apologies if I've misunderstood/misled you/anyone (from Ian's comment, it may appear that I've said "NO! You can't do that!"). My message was just hoping to show my experiences and possibly planning a bit longer-term, sorry if misunderstood and there's too much 'my spin' on it. I'm hoping it is taken as advice more than anything else. Yes, budget is the biggest question, especially imaging - it is an endless money pit! Initially, is it fair to say that you're interested in visual to start, hence buying (and cancelling) the dob? If you're interested in starting with visual, here's a really good page about visual expectations: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/. Also have a look at "Turn Left At Orion" book.

I've been there (and sure most have), looking through scope and (a little) disheartened that the targets didn't look like the photos I'd see in books and publications, then took interest in just getting out and learning my way around the heavens. With that, I must add that there is NEVER an occasion that I have when doing visual that I'm ever not 'wowed' by just 'looking' at the sky, even now (moon, planets, and just random locations in the heavens) by the sheer number of stars just popping out of the blackness! If you're looking to start with visual, any telescope (from decent supplier) should be in the offerings for you, within the understanding that it's still not a one-does-all.

HappyKat points out about existing 5D lenses - yep, they'll (be a great) start you on you AP journey, but won't help visual astronomy.

Any interest (potential future proofing) for imaging and the mount question becomes 'can you stretch a bit'... The reason for this is whilst the AZ *can* be used for AP, it's not a long-term solution for most - everyone agrees above - no denying it's just not the preferred "way to do it", certainly for longer exposures.

To throw another spanner in the works - what about the possibility of a tracking mount that you can use for AP (star-adventurer for example) and a decent set of binoculars? My bug for astro was with a 10x50 which resolved Jupiter & the 4-Galilean moons. Perhaps browse to see what others see with binoculars as they're frequently recommended to travel to dark sites with (quick to set up too!)?

Edited October 5, 2021 by pete_81

[Dazzyt66]

1 hour ago, happy-kat said:

Seeing as you own a 5d what lenses do you already own?

Imaging can be done successfully with a camera lens and if you own suitable lenses already this might help your choices

I echo this. I have an ST80 which I've used for AP. Yes, you will get a decent image from the 120 although it will be far from perfect (and not much use for planets). On the other hand if you get a star tracking mount like this:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/star-tracker-astronomy-mounts/skywatcher-star-adventurer-mini-sam-wifi-astro-imaging-mount-bundle.html

and use even just your stock 50mm lens with your 5d you will get far superior pictures. As you get used to AP you can then upgrade should you want to. For me, the camera lens combo gives me much satisfaction at the moment (my goto lens is a M42 adapted 200mm I got from ebay for £20) which gives me this (although I'm using a HEQ5 mount rather than a Star Tracker):

Edited October 5, 2021 by Dazzyt66

[The Admiral]

2 hours ago, pete_81 said:

Apologies if I've misunderstood/misled you/anyone (from Ian's comment, it may appear that I've said "NO! You can't do that!"). My message was just hoping to show my experiences and possibly planning a bit longer-term, sorry if misunderstood and there's too much 'my spin' on it.

No worries, sorry I wasn't pointing the finger at you and I didn't take it that you were condemning the AZ mount, but I just wanted to expand on what you said. So often I read in answer to beginners' questions that you must have an EQ mount in order to do imaging, and I wanted to dispel such a notion. It's one of my pet intolerances , and wanted to keep the flag flying for AZ imaging . I'll get off my soapbox now!

By the way, I have gone over to using an EQ mount now .

Ian

Edited October 5, 2021 by The Admiral