Sharpcap vs. APT

[Alex E]

So to my very very beginner eye, these two pieces of software seem quite aligned (or competing on an even keel you could say) in terms of what they do and what they cost. Are there any opinions on which if any is the "better" overall, or has most features I guess?

And more to the point, which would you recommend to someone starting out in astro-imaging and why. I've been using APT so far and it seems pretty good - I've particularly enjoyed the Bahtinov focus assist tool, but I'd be curious to know if there are any points where Sharpcap would provide an advantage - such as polar aligning maybe?

[StuartT]

Like you I am a newbie.

I started with APT (as I didn't know what else was out there), but its interface is somewhat err.. idiosyncratic. I then discovered SharpCap and its rather marvellous polar alignment tool.

But then....

I discovered NINA. It blows the other two out of the water frankly. A very logical and easy to learn interface. A real joy. It suits anyone from beginner level up to pretty experienced people. It's completely free and (this is important) the support is the very best there is. The creator seems to live on the Discord server and answers your every question within minutes! Never experienced anything like it. 

I still use SharpCap for polar alignment, as it's very nice. But everything else I do in NINA.

If you are a planetary guy, though, your mileage may vary. I'm really talking about DSO imaging 

Edited September 10, 2021 by StuartT

[Padraic M]

+1 for what Stuart said - he types faster than I do!

It depends on what type of astrophotography you intend to do.

Traditionally, Sharpcap is good for planetary, lunar or solar imaging (very bright and sometimes very small objects) which uses very different techniques to Deep Sky imaging (relatively large but very faint objects such as galaxies and nebulas etc.).

Sharpcap uses cameras in video mode to capture sequences of short-exposure images of the target object, which can be stacked to give one sharp, detailed image using a selection of the best frames from the video sequence. Detailed pictures of Saturn and Jupiter will generally have been captured using Sharpcap or one of a number of other packages that do similar. There are also other packages to use for post-processing such as Autostakkert, Registax etc. that are specifically designed to process these video image sequences.

APT is specifically designed for DSO imaging which takes long-exposure still images of objects that are often so faint that they can't be seen with the naked eye. APT also provides a range of tools that help you plan an imaging session, locate your object (GOTO and plate solving), cool your camera, execute hours-long capture sequences with regular automated refocusing etc., and even park your mount and shut down your equipment automatically when the sequence ends. 

The differences here are obvious - a Sharpcap planetary imaging session might last 9 minutes comprising 3x3 minute video segments with red, green and blue filters. An APT session could be 6 hours a night for three nights capturing 18 hours of data on a faint nebula through red, green, blue, hydrogen-alpha, Sii, Oiii filters while (hopefully) you are tucked up asleep in bed. 

All so far so good. However, this all gets complicated because with the latest version of Sharpcap, you can now also programme up lengthy sequences for DSO imaging. I haven't tried any of this, and I don't know of anyone who has, but I'm sure as it starts to get traction in the community, we will start to hear how well Sharpcap does this job.

Like Stuart, most DSO imagers will use Sharpcap only for polar alignment, as its PA tool is superb. I sometimes also use it to help with initial focusing of my imaging and guide cameras (autofocus routines normally expect the camera to be very close to focus already).

So if you intend to capture planetary, lunar or solar images, then Sharpcap, Firecapture or ASICap would be the tools of choice. For DSO imaging, NINA and APT are very popular choices, and people who also want observatory controls may go for Sequence Generator Pro or MaximDL. BackyardEOS is an easy option for Canon or Nikon DSLR users.

[StuartT]

36 minutes ago, Padraic M said:

I sometimes also use it to help with initial focusing of my imaging and guide cameras (autofocus routines normally expect the camera to be very close to focus already).

Good point. I use SharpCap for focusing too because the live video mode is super easy with a Bhatinov mask)

[Alex E]

Thank you both for your replies, that's exactly the kind of information/advice I was looking for.

I will be doing DSO imaging so I will definitely give NINA (which I'd similarly not heard of before) a try. I've found APT to be a pretty solid app overall, though to be fair I've only used a fraction of its features so far, but you are right Stuart, the interface is a bit clunky and awakward to use in some places. I shall see how I get along with the Sharpcap PA tool as well, I'm quite curious as to how it all works. So far (and we're talking two sessions so far only) I've just done manual PA using standard methods and phone app - and to be fair, I've not done horribly with it - but I'm guessing the PA tool should give me a much more precise alignment.

 

 

[StuartT]

1 hour ago, Alex E said:

Thank you both for your replies, that's exactly the kind of information/advice I was looking for.

I will be doing DSO imaging so I will definitely give NINA (which I'd similarly not heard of before) a try. I've found APT to be a pretty solid app overall, though to be fair I've only used a fraction of its features so far, but you are right Stuart, the interface is a bit clunky and awakward to use in some places. I shall see how I get along with the Sharpcap PA tool as well, I'm quite curious as to how it all works. So far (and we're talking two sessions so far only) I've just done manual PA using standard methods and phone app - and to be fair, I've not done horribly with it - but I'm guessing the PA tool should give me a much more precise alignment.

 

 

The SharpCap PA tool is a delight! Super easy to use and gives you a very precise alignment.

Go and get NINA. Install version 1.10 HF3 https://nighttime-imaging.eu/download/

Then watch this great series of 'how to' videos on how it works. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIJETFlZV9yVlNQYtR0X21NHepcWKa8iD

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by StuartT

[Mr Thingy]

Another happy NINA user here. Intuitive interface. Lots of functionality. Very good bit of (free) software.

There are plenty of good YT videos on how to use it too.

[ONIKKINEN]

+1 for NINA and also Sharpcap pro just for polar alignment and the occasional lunar/planetary videos. Sharpcap pro polar alignment is impossible to do wrong and will take a couple of minutes at most, its really good. I used to only polarscope align and after switching to Sharpcap i noticed that i was always somewhere around 1-6 arcminutes off. With Sharpcap i get under 20 arcsec alignment every time with ease.

 

Cuiv the lazy geek in YouTube will also teach you everything you wanted or didn't want to know about NINA, have a look at these if you want to: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDesYsLqfxSEoqrmI7v8apj_eXQ-tkuXG . After watching these videos i really just started using NINA with no real questions left, smooth sailing since the first time.

 

[StuartT]

2 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

+1 for NINA and also Sharpcap pro just for polar alignment and the occasional lunar/planetary videos. Sharpcap pro polar alignment is impossible to do wrong and will take a couple of minutes at most, its really good. I used to only polarscope align and after switching to Sharpcap i noticed that i was always somewhere around 1-6 arcminutes off. With Sharpcap i get under 20 arcsec alignment every time with ease.

Cuiv the lazy geek in YouTube will also teach you everything you wanted or didn't want to know about NINA, have a look at these if you want to: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDesYsLqfxSEoqrmI7v8apj_eXQ-tkuXG . After watching these videos i really just started using NINA with no real questions left, smooth sailing since the first time.

 

yep good old Cuiv can always be relied upon for good vids.

[adyj1]

May as well also add Ekos to the list for its cross-platform capabilities (Linux/Windows/OSX) . I too was an APT user as a beginner, and very happy with it, but when I wanted a cheap, light grab-and-go setup decided on a Raspberry Pi 4 and Astroberry (which includes Kstars/Ekos) and am very happy. I've decided to run it on the pier PC too.

[Clarkey]

FWIW I would give my vote to NINA. I have used APT and NINA is far superior. For planetary I actually use Fire Capture as I think it is better than Sharpcap - but to be honest I do very little planetary imaging....

[rnobleeddy]

One more for indi/Ekos. I've used NINA too, but I find Ekos more intuitive.

[markse68]

21 hours ago, Clarkey said:

I have used APT and NINA is far superior.

Hi Clarkey, could you elaborate on that a little? Don’t they both do basically the same thing? I’m doing very basic stuff and tried NINA and APT but settled on APT for no particular reason but there must have been an instinctive one i guess. It works well so far and i like it. Most issues have been Ascom related so same for both i guess. Sharpcap PA is excellent and worth the small cost i think- turned my ASI 120mm into a polemaster for a fraction of the cost 👍

Mark

[Clarkey]

15 minutes ago, markse68 said:

Hi Clarkey, could you elaborate on that a little?

I think NINA is easier to use and to set up for different scopes. If you are still doing relatively basic stuff APT is fine - I used it for quite a while. The main benefit to me of NINA is the framing assistant. It allows you to get the exact framing you want and then it sends it directly to the sequencing page. Very useful especially if you want to do mosaics. The imaging screen set up is also very good as you can customize what is shown and how it is arranged. It's been a while since I used APT, but I know I was much happier when I changed to NINA.

The only thing I preferred in APT was the flats wizard. NINA's flat assistant is OK but can be a little temperamental. Also, if you are using two different gain settings you have to run it twice.

To be honest, if you are happy with APT and it does everything you need there is not need to change. If you start using multiple set ups I think you would find NINA a better option. At the end of the day use the software you find easiest. Given all the other hurdles in AP, we just need some of it to be easy😀

[markse68]

Thanks Clarkey, I will at some point need to do a mosaic- for m31, so that’s good to know!

Mark

[StuartT]

I agree with Clarkey about the benefits of NINA. I think it is way easier to use and more logically laid out. 

If you've not been using APT for that long, then a switch now would be a good idea I think (so you don't get too used to APT and then find any change difficult). I also agree with Clarkey about using what you are most comfortable with. But I think you would very quickly become comfortable with NINA if you watched those vids I linked to and gave it a try. Also, as I said, the support for NINA is way superior to APT. The NINA guys respond in minutes whereas Ivo normally takes two days at least) For a beginner this is very important matter.

Edited September 11, 2021 by StuartT

[malc-c]

Part of the problem is that all the software mentioned has evolved over time.  Initially APT and BYEOS were developed to control DSLR cameras (namely cannon as implied by BYEOS), and some of the more popular CCD cameras.  Their primary function was the automation of taking repeated subs which could then be stacked and processed in some other application.  Sharpcap came about primary for use with video cameras, or fast exposure CCDs and was primary aimed as luna and planetary work.  EQMOD was used for telescope control, and then the original PHD was developed for guiding.  Most of this software was either free, or less than £15 to purchase.  There were other dedicated astronomy applications like MaximDL which already had a guiding option, and sort of merged a few of the other programs together so you to take all the subs and then process them in one application.  But their cost was prohibitive for a lot of people at the time.

Now we see the lines blurring... Sharpcap is venturing into sequencing long exposure subs, has a wonderful PA tool, and the list of cameras supported is covering all ends of the affordability scales.  Likewise APT has developed and has a host of tools and wide range of cameras are supported.  It even still supports serial shutter release of older Canon 400D and below cameras, something that I discovered NINA doesn't and after chatting with the developers on discord, never will.  

All these programs also integrate with each other through the ASCOM platform, so whilst you may still need to have PHD2 running, you don't need to open it to see how the guiding is going as NINA etc can display the graphs and guidance for you.

The main thing here is that software wise we can find applications to gather and process the data in whatever imaging session we do, be that Luna, planetary or DSO, and most of that software is free or keenly priced.  Which packages we use is down to personal preference.  My workflow means that I hardly use the bulk of the functionality APT has.  I don't use the focus aids as I use a mask on the scope and my eyes to check the pattern - which works.  I simply use the main function of creating a sequence and letting it run (it can even shut the PC down after running the darks sequence which suits me).  As mentioned APT works with my ancient but capable modified D400, so even though I do like NINA, I'm not prepared to replace my camera just so I can use that item of software.

One day I'm sure someone will either develop a single applications that has all the functionality of current applications such as EQMOD/PHD2/CdC/APT etc, natively all rolled into one, or possibly at this rate NINA / APT  / Sharpcap may evolve into that application. - who knows.

[StuartT]

4 minutes ago, malc-c said:

One day I'm sure someone will either develop a single applications that has all the functionality of current applications such as EQMOD/PHD2/CdC/APT etc, natively all rolled into one, or possibly at this rate NINA / APT  / Sharpcap may evolve into that application. - who knows.

I suspect NINA will be the one to do that. It's already gradually adding the functionality that other things have. Though not yet guiding

[malc-c]

5 minutes ago, StuartT said:

I suspect NINA will be the one to do that. It's already gradually adding the functionality that other things have. Though not yet guiding

I don't have that confidence that NINA will myself.  Whilst things like Skywatchers protocol is well documented, writing the code to do the same task as EQMOD or GSServer does, it  is quite time consuming and needs a lot of effort.  Given the conversation I had with the devs yesterday over modifying the code for NINA to make the serial release option work when a canon camera is connected (which would be considerably less effort than adding telescope control or guiding functionality) I can't ever see NINA becoming this application myself.

[GalaxyGael]

I am considering a switch to NINA, but happily using the new Sharpcap 4 with the DSO sequencer. Polar alignment is as good as it gets. The interface is a fast setup for me, likely because I am used to it. The sequencer can run an entire imaging session, from target slewing, plate solving, imaging, filter change, flip, camera warm up, mount parking etc.

If I ever get a half decent night, I only image one object and always plan so that the imaging (for spring to autumn anyway) is a target that does not require a flip. As winter approaches, that is why I am considering NINA as I found the APT interface to be a little 80s clunky and the point draft solving requiring a few too many clicks. ASTAP solver integrated with sharpcap has never failed. NINA autofocus is another reason to consider the flip, along with the option to preview the targets from database images. The autofocus in sharpcap also works, but not as well integrated as NINA is.

My new scope does not have easy frame rotation, so that feature from SGP or NINA is not needed for me at the moment. Dithering is possible without guiding/guidescope in sharpcap, using ASCOM pulsing which is great option for live stacking with scope and camera only and short exposure imaging, another benefit of sharpcap. Otherwise, dithering interface to PhD2 works seamlessly. 

For NINA users, what is the best version to download as of today?

To the OP, for starting out, the sharpcap sequencer for DSO along with its historical power for planetary/lunar etc. is among the easiest to get going, and the pre-processing (darks, flats) options, background subtraction and the smart histogram are fairly unique capabilities.

[StuartT]

1 hour ago, GalaxyGael said:

I am considering a switch to NINA, but happily using the new Sharpcap 4 with the DSO sequencer. Polar alignment is as good as it gets. The interface is a fast setup for me, likely because I am used to it. The sequencer can run an entire imaging session, from target slewing, plate solving, imaging, filter change, flip, camera warm up, mount parking etc.

If I ever get a half decent night, I only image one object and always plan so that the imaging (for spring to autumn anyway) is a target that does not require a flip. As winter approaches, that is why I am considering NINA as I found the APT interface to be a little 80s clunky and the point draft solving requiring a few too many clicks. ASTAP solver integrated with sharpcap has never failed. NINA autofocus is another reason to consider the flip, along with the option to preview the targets from database images. The autofocus in sharpcap also works, but not as well integrated as NINA is.

My new scope does not have easy frame rotation, so that feature from SGP or NINA is not needed for me at the moment. Dithering is possible without guiding/guidescope in sharpcap, using ASCOM pulsing which is great option for live stacking with scope and camera only and short exposure imaging, another benefit of sharpcap. Otherwise, dithering interface to PhD2 works seamlessly. 

For NINA users, what is the best version to download as of today?

To the OP, for starting out, the sharpcap sequencer for DSO along with its historical power for planetary/lunar etc. is among the easiest to get going, and the pre-processing (darks, flats) options, background subtraction and the smart histogram are fairly unique capabilities.

Interesting. I only have SharpCap 3.2. Didn't realise there was a new release. I'll check it out. Totally agree that the polar alignment is fab. I use SharpCap for planetary (at least in my modest, newbie way).

The version I'm using is 1.10 HF4 Beta 1 which is great but very occasionally will freeze on you. The newest official release is 1.10 HF3 and is completely stable. 

 

Edited September 12, 2021 by StuartT