Unusual sighting

[Harribone]

Hi

Complete newbie question here. I joined simply in hope that someone might be able to explain the following? We were camping in Pembrokeshire UK on Saturday night. My wife , daughter and I had been watching satellites cross the night sky. At about 11.15pm I spotted 2 white lights the same size as an average star heading towards each other at a similar speed to a satellite at about 146 degrees SE quite close to the brightest star in that direction and height. They stopped short of meeting and then spun in unison in a perfect circular motion, perhaps two full 360 degree turns, and then headed off in different directions. My wife and daughter didn’t see it but as I was explaining and pointing in the direction another 2 lights came along and did the same movements. I’ve never seen anything quite like it and I’m hoping someone here might be able to give an explanation please?

Many thanks, Chris

[Harribone]

Update: Using a night sky app I’ve just rewound back to Sat 17 July 11:15pm and worked out that the sighting occurred to the right of the constellation of Cygnus, that bright star I mentioned being Deneb... I think!

[Buqibu]

That sounds odd, maybe some planes doing manouvers? 🤷

[saac]

Possibly a 2 ship flight of 72 Sqn from RAF Valley on night ex.  If you contact the base media ops manager  they may be able to confirm . 

Jim 

[Barry Fitz-Gerald]

Sounds curious. Was there any engine noise - was it quiet enough where you were to hear any if there was, were there any flashing navigation lights (green and red and sometimes very bight white strobes as well) and how big (compared to say your outstretched fingers or hand) was the 360 degree orbit(s) they completed? When they approached each other did they do it head on or from an angle?

When the second pair came into view were the first pair still visible?

As they were moving on different headings I will not ask about wind direction.

There was an RAF base at Brawdy nr St Davids but that shut some considerable time ago I think.

[Harribone]

Thanks for your replies.

Barry...

It was a very quiet, warm and still night with very little if any noise around us. No engine noise. 

No flashing/navigation lights. They were about the same brightness/size as an average star. They ‘appeared’ to be very far away, I could probably have covered the perfect circular movement they made with an out stretched thumb or two.

Both times they approached head  on, stopped dead and went into the circular movement, headed off at different angles. 
 

The first pair appeared, did their thing, I was quite animated and swearing, much to my daughter’s surprise (!) not something I usually do ! and then they disappeared, my wife and daughter didn’t see it but as I was pointing in the direction the second pair came along and did the same or similar movements, so no more than a minute in total.

I’m  perhaps thinking drones now but they were way out and very high to the right of the brightest star in that direction (Deneb I think) and below us and them was probably 70 miles (?) of sea  looking towards Devon.

It was quite amazing. The movements were nothing I’ve ever seen before.

 

[Barry Fitz-Gerald]

Thanks for the info! This subject is a bit like Mrs Rochester in Jane Eyre, up there somewhere, but not something people really like to talk about it. I suspect no-one on this forum or anywhere else for that matter can identify you what you saw, but I will have a stab at suggesting what it wasn't, drawing on the old desiccated list of usually suspects that turn up in these discussions.

 

1. Birds, fireflies or other wildlife. The under side of birds (particularly sea gulls) can reflect sunlight or other lighting and present a very unusual appearance similar to orbs of light flying erratically and sometimes in formation. What you saw manoeuvred in a structures and co-ordinated manner, so I would say that this interpretation is Highly Unlikely.

2. Balloons and or Chinese Lanterns, old favourites, but as they are passive objects and are dependent on winds aloft this interpretation is Highly Unlikely.

3. Satellites, these critters do not execute the maneuvers you describe, they go in straight lines – period. Having said that I saw a single light, just as you describe, executing the same sort of antics, appearing, stopping and then performing a couple of 360° orbits and then heading off in a different direction, but that was in 1969. So is there an old technology that we are using that could fit these observations? I would suggest that this is Highly Unlikely.

4. Drones – well these are one of the default explanations for strange lights in the sky and with good reason, they can move in extremely bizarre ways, often have lights and can be programmed to operate in swarms without the need for an operator input. But is it likely that someone would conduct a co-ordinated drone flight over your location at the time and date you had your sighting? Also sightings that match yours have been reported for many decades, well before the time drones were available (such as 1969) to the military let alone civilians. Despite these misgivings, objectively this interpretation of your sighting is a Possible.

5. Military aircraft, RAF night flying training is usually restricted to Monday to Thursday and at the weekends the only night flights would probably be of an operational nature (or training for an upcoming operational deployment), which would not involve chasing each other about the sky. Aircraft of any type maneuvering as you describe would produce noticeable engine noise as the throttle settings changed and mandatory position lights would be shown. In-flight refueling operations can look extremely weird at night as the tankers show arrays of lights, but the nearest 'corridor' where these op's take place is well to the south of your location. This interpretation is therefore Unlikely.

6. Military Flares - these tend to be orange and only used over the sea or military ranges, but unlikely at weekends (or unless training for an operational deployment). They drift with the wind and descend before burning out - they do not fly around as you describe. So this interpretation is Highly Unlikely.

7. Civilian aircraft, again, these would be required to show mandatory position lights and would be noisy when maneuvering. Formation flying at night is not something that would be done by anyone (let alone 4 pilots) who was not certifiably insane, and is extremely difficult to perform and suicidally dangerous. What about using NVG's? Well you need a specially adapted aircraft cockpits to use this technology, and even with these formation flying would be extremely dangerous. The military can do it, but it's still extremely hazardous and not the sort of thing that would be done outside a military range. And this would not include aerobatics. This interpretation is therefore Highly Unlikely.

8. Meteors – Not even worth bothering with.

9. Laser Light show. The moving point of a laser reflecting off a cloud layer can appear to move really fast and if more than one laser is in use they can appear to perform really odd gyrations. As you could see Deneb, and the weather at the time was anticyclonic with clear skies and no cloud I would say that this interpretation is Unlikely.

10. You hallucinated or made it all up. Well if you did hallucinate it the rest of your family was clearly on the same trip, and I think it unlikely you made it up as you sound like fairly sound to me. But then again I am a poor judge of character.

 

Only you can determine whether any of the above is a likely fit with your observation. But if none of them do, no need to feel alone, you will be amongst the many thousands of people who have seen something, which is as yet, inexplicable in the sky.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Barry Fitz-Gerald

[Harribone]

Hi Barry

Thanks for your very detailed reply.

I'll have a chat with my uncle re: the possibility of drones, he's a bit of an expert... but even that doesn't seem to fit.

I'll just consider myself to be quite lucky to have seen what we did and maybe one day it will become clear.

[AstroMuni]

On 19/07/2021 at 09:15, Harribone said:

I spotted 2 white lights the same size as an average star heading towards each other at a similar speed to a satellite at about 146 degrees SE quite close to the brightest star in that direction and height. They stopped short of meeting and then spun in unison in a perfect circular motion, perhaps two full 360 degree turns, and then headed off in different directions.

Could it be searchlights? from a circus or similar carnival event.

[Astro Noodles]

Or maybe lasers?