Cheap as chips tiny pc experiment

[powerlord]

Feels like we could do with a forum for 'controllers'? Asiair, pis, laptops, mini pcs?

Anyhoo, I am asiair Pro user. But its expensive and I want a setup for my second mount. I've been trying astroberry on my pi400, bug so far I'm underwhelmed.

I bought a 2nd hand lenova laptop precicely to play with the Windows options (I'm a mac only house), but it now seems a bit good to strap to a mount and leave out all night.

Anyway, purchased this:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fanless-Silent-USFF-PC-Quad-Core-2GB-RAM-64GB-SSD-Windows-10-Pro-PSU-/254986243991

At 40 quid in Windows 10, I'm going to see if it can run NINA. I will update this thread. Watch this space.. At about same price as a pi4, but offering the ability to run nina as windows, I though it might do the job if its quick enough. And it might be a cheap option for others on a budget.

I chose that one as it has usb3, 64gb ssd and windows preinstalled saving me faffing about. I have plenty spare wee WiFi usb dongles so one will add WiFi. I expect psu will be 12-24v which I can provide easily from my battery pack or for at home, just plug in to outside plug.

I think 2gb memory should be fine.  4gb would be better. The amd processor is the weak part - will just have to see how it copes with stuff like plate solving, guiding, etc.

Stu

[malc-c]

Personally I will be surprised if it manages to do anything that requires a lot of processing (plate solving, stacking etc) without a struggle.  It may manage it, but with just 2GB of DDR3  RAM, some of which no doubt will be used for graphics, and a 1.2GHz processor it may well struggle.

We use to use similar PC's for display board (huge TVs) info.  Most had Atom processors, and could just about manage taking the data form the telephone system and displaying the data on the TV (normal stuff like calls waiting, calls taken, productivity ratings etc).  If it had to multi task it just fell over !

I would suggest that provided there is enough head room and the software doesn't start using the hard drive as a scratch disk then it should be fine for driving the scope, guiding etc. but there could be a demand on that 2GB of RAM that will slow things up. - Keep us posted, as often in the real world things prove out so different form the theory !

[powerlord]

the 2gb is easily upgraded for a tenner or so. it is quad core, and that's much the same as a pi3 - and that does plate solving fine. I think stacking might be pushing it though.

It's an SSD though, so even if it does start swapping it's not gonna affect speed much.

 

But yeh,  we'll see.

stu

[malc-c]

It will be interesting to see how it performs.  Often things run just fine when on paper they don't meet spec....

[powerlord]

So - first update.

Got pc today. As described. opened it up - one 2gb dimm , one sata 64gb ssd.

Windows 10 Pro licenced on there. I just installed NINA, ASTAP and DB and chucked a light from my IC1396 session a few nights ago. Solved in a few seconds.

It all seems to run fine. And being windows you get RDP so remote access is very smooth and quick with low network use, vs hellish VNC using 1-3MB/s with astroberry.

I will set it up and give it a try tonight if I can. I have never used NINA before though, so don't really know what I'm doing. However, the plan will be to get it to control this lot:

canon 6d

az gti in eq mode

120mm guidescope with asi224 guiding

And I'll set it on something or other and see how easy it is to configure, and if I see any performance issues.

But so far I see nothing to suggest it won't work fine.

Oh, also it's a standard 12v power input for the PC - so will plug straight into the regular DC jacks most of us have if you want to run on batteries.

It has 3 xusb2, 2 x usb3 so plenty for most.

I had a generic usb wifi stick with an antenna for range in my spare drawer, plugged that in and just worked.

I'll post some pics later of the setup, but so far it seems far better than astroberry on a pi4 for speed, remote working.

stu

[steppenwolf]

I am watching your progress with great interest and I hope it works well for you. It’s looking good so far 👍

[malc-c]

Sounds promising... and for £50 can be bad...be interesting to see what Task manager shows with everything running... 

[powerlord]

well rooky mistake was not actually getting everything working in daylight.. cameras were fine, but couldn't get connection to az gti.

it works fine in asiair with eqmod so assumed it would be the same.. but looks like it's not with ascom ? as far as I can tell I need to run synscan app, and then use synscan ascom driver to connect via localport. I'm ASSUMING synscan app can use cable, or else that isn't helpful.. I'll try and get that working during daylight today.

with mount not working there wasn't much else I could do last night.

Having the SSD means it can page in/out of memory pretty fast, so the lack of physical memory isn't so much of a problem. And I've not seen CPU spike much at all so far to be honest - there doesn't seem to be much needed that needs a lot of CPU.

Saying that, I did take advantage of the ZWO sale, and took a punt at going direct to get an asiair pro for 180 quid..if don't get stung for vat/duty. I didn't want to spend another 300 quid on a second one, but 180 seemed ok... course I might end up paying that with duty anyway - but it persuaded the (very small) bit of my brain that asks 'do i need this'.

So, frankly the PC ain't gonna every be used in anger once that comes. However I will try and get it all working. If I do, it's useful info for others, and a backup for me - plus useful if I ever want to do something the asiair doesn't do.

here's a few pics of the 'setup' if you can call it that.

I found the usb stick with the antenna was fine to connect it direct to my home network btw, so can recommend that. Though for increased speed, I connected to the wifi repeater on the main mount as that has a bit stronger signal to it.

RDP is a joy vs VNC of course - pretty much like local use.

[blinky]

I’m sure it will be fine, I’ve went even smaller and got one of the intel compute sticks, it’s a few years old but has USB3. Runs everything I need it to and plate solves in seconds as well, it’s amazing how much computing power you can get in tiny packages nowadays!

[powerlord]

yes, that was the original plan, but they are quite expensive - and of course then need usb hub, etc.

 these seems plentiful and cheap.

Anyhoo - azgti mount now working fine with EQMOD and direct cable. phd2 setup with asi224, and 6d as main camera. All seem to play nice together with NINA.

So tonight I shall give it all a try.

stu

[powerlord]

well, I think this experiment is over. it all works fine if windows is your thing.

Personally I can't stand windows, and I still find nina as much as a PITA as astroberry with nothing working as you'd expect. At first it looked promising, hence this experiment. case in point - plate solving an image (which worked fine - only 50% cpu usage), but doesn't then apparently sync mount at all - after spending time hunting around for this I decided if something that basic is hidden away and non-obvious this is not for me, I'm constantly going to be battling unintuitive software - little windows everywhere, no set views, etc.

Anyway, it was more than capable of guiding with psd2 when controlling mount, imaging and plate solving with no isues on resources - pic attached.

Anyway, moan over. Bottom line is, it all works fine. IF you want a cheap as chips windows based controller, these seem to do the trick.

key search words would be 'USFF' or 'fanless', 2gb, 64gb ssd and windows 10 (assuming you don't want to install yourself)

at 25-40 quid on ebay reconditioned since these are common in offices, they do appear to be a bit of a bargain. This particular type is even 12v/regular DC connector so easily usable if you have a battery based system.

I'll probably keep it running 24/7 somewhere to be honest now as a windows machine for the odd bit of software I need that only runs on windows - since my macs are mostly M1 silicon now, and parallels is expensive and per mac so only got one licence for one of my macs.

But, I won't be using nina or for that matter astroberry any more - just not for me. When my 2nd asiair arrives that will become sole controller for the second mount. I know some folk get emotive about certain software over others - to me it's all just tools - you pick one that works for you and is best for you. Previously I loved my asiair pro, but when folk commented astroberry was just as good, or mini pc/nina just as good I didn't feel I could comment. Now I feel I can - if you try those and find them as much of a PITA as I do, consider getting an ASIAIR PRO (assuming you are ok to be DSLR/ZWO only) - yes it's expensive, but frankly the only thing truly limited in your life is your time - I've probaby spent 5-6 hours just trying to get those things working, probably more. Whereas ASIAIR 'just works'. to be that's money well spent.

stu

[wormix]

Really interesting thread - I currently use APT with no issues on a laptop but was considering moving to a a more portable mount mounted solution. 
 

Was thinking about a stick PC but have also had my head turned by the ZWO sale so am seriously considering an ASair

[powerlord]

the sticks don't seem great value to me. They are small, but then you have to add a usb hub, power for the usb hub, etc. and of course, no upgrade path at all.

I got a lenova laptop reconditioned from ebay for 149 quid (Lenovo X230 12.5" Laptop Core i5 3rd Gen @2.50GHz 4GB RAM 120GB SSD WIN10)

so that is of course much faster, more vesatile, etc. And there's not really much size difference between it and the wee USFF thing. So I think cost would be the only reason I'd go with the wee USFF. If you want an actual usable, portable laptop that can also do your controlling, a laptop is the way to go if you don't want to use asiair.

Personally, I'm happy to restrict myself to zwo stuff. I'm glad I tried the alternatives. It's made be sure I made the right decision getting another asiair pro.

The only area I'd say it is rubbish at is planetary stuff. For that, I'll be still plugging my mac into my zwo camera and using firecapture - but still using asiair for everything else.

stu