Problems balancing a RC 8" scope

[Quetzalcoatl72]

I seem to be having problems balancing my scope on my neq6 mount, I'm using my 600d dlsr with double battery pack and 2 extension rings, with a finder scope and asi guider attached so it's pretty back heavy. I included a video if you don't fully understand I hope you can see what I'm doing as I did it at night for authenticity. When pointing straight up the scope calls backwards, when pointing down it falls forwards, I can only get it balanced at a diagonal angle to the north and even then it's dodgey. I've spent over an hour trying to solve this but with no luck. What do I need? I also have a problem with the finderscope not fitting on the saddle attached to the scope properly, it sticks out about a cm but it is very solid on there. Thanks.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Quetzalcoatl72

[vlaiv]

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/counterweights/baader-dovetail-bar-levelling-counterweight.html

or

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-counterweight-kits/adm-dovetail-counterweight-kit-v-series.html

I use baader version for my RC8"

[Quetzalcoatl72]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/counterweights/baader-dovetail-bar-levelling-counterweight.html

or

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-counterweight-kits/adm-dovetail-counterweight-kit-v-series.html

I use baader version for my RC8"

Nice thanks, it's a great scope, survived the journey, collimation looks great to me. I've looked into collimating a RC scope and by the looks on it i ned to spend another £400 or so on the kit which is not what I want to do, hopefully I can keep it as it is. Being careful of where I'm moving it and not to knock it. Did you have to spend ridiculous money on your scope just for the collimation process?
 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Quetzalcoatl72
added collimation ring on articurus

[vlaiv]

40 minutes ago, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

Did you have to spend ridiculous money on your scope just for the collimation process?

No. Did not spend anything on collimation aids.

Only thing I used is the gear I already have and am using with this scope anyway - that is astro camera. You can do it with DSLR as well.

Here is guide that I followed:

https://deepspaceplace.com/gso8rccollimate.php

I did not even use Bahtinov mask - but measured FWHM in SharpCap instead.

[Quetzalcoatl72]

2 hours ago, vlaiv said:

No. Did not spend anything on collimation aids.

Only thing I used is the gear I already have and am using with this scope anyway - that is astro camera. You can do it with DSLR as well.

Here is guide that I followed:

https://deepspaceplace.com/gso8rccollimate.php

I did not even use Bahtinov mask - but measured FWHM in SharpCap instead.

Nice one! cheers. The only problem I have now is the finderscope, I'm using a skywatcher one with y asi attached but I can't get focus, looking at this one firstlightoptics.com/guide-cameras/astro-essentials-50mm-guidescope-finderscope.html I want to be able to switch between guider and looking through it if i cant find the star on the laptop

Edited March 22, 2021 by Quetzalcoatl72

[Altair8389]

Hi how much weight do you have attached to the focuser ? I don't have experience of the RC8 as such. One thing you can try is to use a AC-dummy coupler to your Canon 600D? You insert a plastic adaptor instead of a battery. At a stroke you remove a lot of weight. The AC coupler is powered by another battery, usually a 12V output battery. Its not that much, but would help reduce weight a lot.

Hope this helps. I can get more details if you are interested ?

Magnus

London

On 22/03/2021 at 17:43, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

I seem to be having problems balancing my scope on my neq6 mount, I'm using my 600d dlsr with double battery pack and 2 extension rings, with a finder scope and asi guider attached so it's pretty back heavy. I included a video if you don't fully understand I hope you can see what I'm doing as I did it at night for authenticity. When pointing straight up the scope calls backwards, when pointing down it falls forwards, I can only get it balanced at a diagonal angle to the north and even then it's dodgey. I've spent over an hour trying to solve this but with no luck. What do I need? I also have a problem with the finderscope not fitting on the saddle attached to the scope properly, it sticks out about a cm but it is very solid on there. Thanks.

 

 

[fwm891]

Try fitting the guidescope forward and underneath the OTA. That's how I got over balancing my 6 inch RC

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by fwm891

[Altair8389]

Hi, you can definitely not use the double battery approach; maybe you can try a smaller lighter camera like the Canon 100D ? It is not expensive 2nd hand. And use a dummy adapter so you can power the camera from an external battery.

 

[Quetzalcoatl72]

Thanks but I use 2 batteries because it lasts a lot longer than one, for some reason it's half an hour, but with 2 it can be 2 hours which is weird

Edited March 24, 2021 by Quetzalcoatl72

[Quetzalcoatl72]

3 hours ago, fwm891 said:

Try fitting the guidescope forward and underneath the OTA. That's how I got over balancing my 6 inch RC

 

 

Hi thanks, unfortunately I bought a counter weight to put on the end and they still doesn't work. The only problem with the above is I wont be able to see through the scope, unless a diagonal can fit through.

[Len1257]

On 22/03/2021 at 22:16, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

I want to be able to switch between guider and looking through it if i cant find the star on the laptop

Not sure what software you are using but if the guidescope camera and laptop can't see the star then you wont see it by eye. When I polar align at dusk with my guidescope it sees stars way before I can see them.

[Quetzalcoatl72]

7 minutes ago, Len1257 said:

Not sure what software you are using but if the guidescope camera and laptop can't see the star then you wont see it by eye. When I polar align at dusk with my guidescope it sees stars way before I can see them.

I'm using sharpcap, sometimes on the 2 star alignment it doesn't go near the star and I could spend up to half an hour trying to find it, my eyes are much quicker than directional keys

[Quetzalcoatl72]

On 22/03/2021 at 17:56, vlaiv said:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/counterweights/baader-dovetail-bar-levelling-counterweight.html

or

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-counterweight-kits/adm-dovetail-counterweight-kit-v-series.html

I use baader version for my RC8"

Got it dotay and it didn't help, perfect without the finderscope however, pity.

[vlaiv]

5 minutes ago, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

Got it dotay and it didn't help, perfect without the finderscope however, pity.

I see.

How far can you move the scope in the saddle?

I remember that I could move mine scope (I have old version with only one vixen dovetail bar) all the way so that back of the scope is flush with saddle on Heq5.

Maybe you could also consider moving guider on top dovetail if you have two of them? That would solve two of your problems at once. You will be left with spare finder shoe for RDF (light weight / cheap one) that you will be able to use for visual alignment and you'll be able to balance the scope properly.

 

 

[Quetzalcoatl72]

Would this product https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetails-saddles-clamps/astro-essentials-vixen-style-dovetail-clamp-for-finder-shoes.html Solve the problem? Scope came with a losmandy and vixen so i wouldn't want to by another one, the losmandy doesn't fit my neq6 very well, looks kind of cone errory, and i'm not spending another 100 on a new saddle

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

Would this product https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dovetails-saddles-clamps/astro-essentials-vixen-style-dovetail-clamp-for-finder-shoes.html Solve the problem? Scope came with a losmandy and vixen so i wouldn't want to by another one, the losmandy doesn't fit my neq6 very well, looks kind of cone errory, and i'm not spending another 100 on a new saddle

Well, that would let you mount scope as suggested above - below the scope on vixen dovetail.

You could mount both guider and counter weight - just put guider scope in front so it does not get blocked by counter weight. I don't know if weight of guider alone would be enough to balance the scope - but you could always add that counter weight behind it on the rail for additional balance.

And you get free finder shoe for RDF that simplifies alignment (I use OAG and put RDF on my RC8" when doing initial alignment).

Btw, here is tip to get good alignment: Mount everything and put scope in home position (pointing to NCP). Unfortunately you can't be 100% sure if scope is really at home position - it could be a bit off in both RA and DEC, but there is simple method to deal with this.

Prior to doing any 2-3 star alignment or anything - tell it to slew to bright star. It will do that. Once on the star - use clutches to center scope / RDF on that star rather than handset / slew. Then move back to home position by slewing.

Now, when you start your alignment - gotos in alignment and afterwards will be more precise.

[Quetzalcoatl72]

14 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Well, that would let you mount scope as suggested above - below the scope on vixen dovetail.

You could mount both guider and counter weight - just put guider scope in front so it does not get blocked by counter weight. I don't know if weight of guider alone would be enough to balance the scope - but you could always add that counter weight behind it on the rail for additional balance.

And you get free finder shoe for RDF that simplifies alignment (I use OAG and put RDF on my RC8" when doing initial alignment).

Btw, here is tip to get good alignment: Mount everything and put scope in home position (pointing to NCP). Unfortunately you can't be 100% sure if scope is really at home position - it could be a bit off in both RA and DEC, but there is simple method to deal with this.

Prior to doing any 2-3 star alignment or anything - tell it to slew to bright star. It will do that. Once on the star - use clutches to center scope / RDF on that star rather than handset / slew. Then move back to home position by slewing.

Now, when you start your alignment - gotos in alignment and afterwards will be more precise.

Nice thanks, that product should work because I put the weight in the center where the scope would go and it's perfectly balanced. I just wonder why these scopes are designed to have the finderscope at those angles instead of directly opposite to the saddle. Thanks, I'll check that tip out when the weathers good, I'm glad it hasn't been at the moment because I'm not ready. I've attached a pic of the neq6 saddle with the losmandy and it looks a little bit dodgey, maybe I will get cone error, but is it possible to fix those errors with the computer?

[vlaiv]

16 minutes ago, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

maybe I will get cone error, but is it possible to fix those errors with the computer?

Cone error is just positioning error. It will impact your goto accuracy, but with good alignment model - it will be accounted for.

It is best if you get into plate solving early on. Connect your DSLR to laptop via USB cable and use software like APT for acquisition. As far as I know APT has plate solving, or it can be added easily.

With plate solving - you don't have to worry about accurate positioning - you'll get exact coordinates where scope is pointing in matter of seconds.

[Altair8389]

4 hours ago, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

Thanks but I use 2 batteries because it lasts a lot longer than one, for some reason it's half an hour, but with 2 it can be 2 hours which is weird

Hi, that battery life seems too short. I can assure you that the extra weight of the battery pack and 2 batteries is making your balance much harder. My solution is not difficult to find. Maybe you need a better power solution. Anyway, good luck on your 2 battery solution.

 

[Len1257]

17 hours ago, Quetzalcoatl72 said:

I'm using sharpcap, sometimes on the 2 star alignment it doesn't go near the star and I could spend up to half an hour trying to find it, my eyes are much quicker than directional keys

I don't use Sharpcap so can't comment on that. Using Astroberry / Kstars etc I get a polar alignment before I can see Polaris and then plate solve to my targets. Can't imagine going back to 2/3 star alignment stuff.  Imaging time is too precious for me.