Beginner astrophotography setup with HEQ5 Pro Mount?

[AlanP_]

I just picked up a HEQ5 Pro after I finally found a good used deal. I did consider going for a cheaper star adventurer, but what I really want to do is take DSO images. 

 

What else should I look to pickup while keeping budget in mind? I would prefer to keep the remaining budget under 500 pounds and I am certainly open to buying second hand gear. So I need a telescope of course and a camera, but which ones should I look out for with my budget? Also, should I look into adding a guidecamera with this budget or wait until I can afford it? Thanks in advance.

[MARS1960]

My first setup was the Celestron equivalent of the HEQ5 with a Skywatcher ED80 and Modified Canon 600D (you can usually find these or similar in the classified ads).

FLO (if buying new) do a very nice Skywatcher ED72 for £269 I think.

A good apo refractor (similar to the spec of the above two) and a modified DSLR is the way I would go with your budget. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by MARS1960

[varius21]

Just so I'm on the lookout in the future for a deal. What's considered a good deal for a used HEQ5 Pro?

[AlanP_]

 

8 minutes ago, varius21 said:

Just so I'm on the lookout in the future for a deal. What's considered a good deal for a used HEQ5 Pro?

Right now the general price seems to be around 600 quid. I got one for 550 with a few added bits. I think second hand used to be a good bit cheaper, but no in todays market due to very little stock.

[malc-c]

21 hours ago, AlanP_ said:

I just picked up a HEQ5 Pro after I finally found a good used deal. I did consider going for a cheaper star adventurer, but what I really want to do is take DSO images. 

 

What else should I look to pickup while keeping budget in mind? I would prefer to keep the remaining budget under 500 pounds and I am certainly open to buying second hand gear. So I need a telescope of course and a camera, but which ones should I look out for with my budget? Also, should I look into adding a guidecamera with this budget or wait until I can afford it? Thanks in advance.

From my own experience the HEQ5 is an excellent mount for imaging with.  It's also worth converting to belt drive, either using the Rowan Astronomy upgrade if you wish to continue to use the handset, or if using a PC and EQMOD then you can go DIY and use a custom ratio.  It makes the mount smoother and, in the case of a DIY ratio such as 4:1 makes PEC easier,  but I digress....

IMO For DSO's follow the tried and tested route of large aperture fast scopes.  The 200PDS OTA is currently £300 new.  The PDS has the larger secondary and is designed for imaging compared to the slightly cheaper optical version.

A guidescope is a must IMO.  You can have the scope perfectly polar aligned, balanced and its CofG correct, but with the backlash of the gearing and precision level of the machining it will still drift within most exposure length.  You can get away with converting the 9 x 50 finder to a finder guider by using an adaptor to suit the C mount of various cameras.  Budget £140 - £180  for an adaptor and guide camera.

Most of us start out with a DSLR camera.  Canon cameras are by far the best for this purpose.  I use a secondhand 400d, but the 450d and above have liveview.  You should be able to pickup a secondhand body for £80 - £150.

Add in additional items such as coma corrector, an EQDIR cable etc and you have a very capable set up.

I would also recommend using EQMOD and a laptop / PC to control and run the imaging sessions

[AlanP_]

2 hours ago, malc-c said:

From my own experience the HEQ5 is an excellent mount for imaging with.  It's also worth converting to belt drive, either using the Rowan Astronomy upgrade if you wish to continue to use the handset, or if using a PC and EQMOD then you can go DIY and use a custom ratio.  It makes the mount smoother and, in the case of a DIY ratio such as 4:1 makes PEC easier,  but I digress....

IMO For DSO's follow the tried and tested route of large aperture fast scopes.  The 200PDS OTA is currently £300 new.  The PDS has the larger secondary and is designed for imaging compared to the slightly cheaper optical version.

A guidescope is a must IMO.  You can have the scope perfectly polar aligned, balanced and its CofG correct, but with the backlash of the gearing and precision level of the machining it will still drift within most exposure length.  You can get away with converting the 9 x 50 finder to a finder guider by using an adaptor to suit the C mount of various cameras.  Budget £140 - £180  for an adaptor and guide camera.

Most of us start out with a DSLR camera.  Canon cameras are by far the best for this purpose.  I use a secondhand 400d, but the 450d and above have liveview.  You should be able to pickup a secondhand body for £80 - £150.

Add in additional items such as coma corrector, an EQDIR cable etc and you have a very capable set up.

I would also recommend using EQMOD and a laptop / PC to control and run the imaging sessions

Another great response, thanks a million for that. The HEQ5 I got actually has the Rowan belt upgrade!

Do you think the 200PDS is better than the ED80? I'll have to do some more research on getting a guidescope setup, dont know much about that.  Would the 200PDS hold up with a guidescope on my HEQ5?

Thats a lot of great information, really appreciate that.

Edited December 29, 2020 by AlanP_

[smashing]

56 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Another great response, thanks a million for that. The HEQ5 I got actually has the Rowan belt upgrade!

Do you think the 200PDS is better than the ED80? I'll have to do some more research on getting a guidescope setup, dont know much about that.  Would the 200PDS hold up with a guidescope on my HEQ5?

Thats a lot of great information, really appreciate that.

For starting out I wouldn't want to be trying all of that with a 200PDS on a HEQ5...that's more like EQ6 territory.

I'm using an HEQ5 and 80mm scope and I wouldn't do it any other way...there is SO much to get right that having something a little bit more forgiving is a bonus.

[AlanP_]

1 minute ago, smashing said:

For starting out I wouldn't want to be trying all of that with a 200PDS on a HEQ5...that's more like EQ6 territory.

I'm using an HEQ5 and 80mm scope and I wouldn't do it any other way...there is SO much to get right that having something a little bit more forgiving is a bonus.

Yeah im literally just researching the combo now and thats what a lot of people have said. I'm now leaning more towards a 130/150 dps scope. What 80mm scope do you have?

[smashing]

Just now, AlanP_ said:

Yeah im literally just researching the combo now and thats what a lot of people have said. I'm now leaning more towards a 130/150 dps scope. What 80mm scope do you have?

I've got a skywatcher Equinox 80...bit old school now days but it does the job.

Take a look at the thread on here to see what the 130 can do and play around with the FOV calculator online to ensure its going to do what you want it to do.

 

[AlanP_]

2 minutes ago, smashing said:

I've got a skywatcher Equinox 80...bit old school now days but it does the job.

Take a look at the thread on here to see what the 130 can do and play around with the FOV calculator online to ensure its going to do what you want it to do.

 

Yeah I was pleasently surprised to see what some people are able to capture with the 130pds and it fits nicely into my budget too. Should be able to get a coma corrector too. its just a matter of finding one! Everywhere is out of stock.

[Jamgood]

I highly recommend a 130PDS. Great little scopes. I use mine on the HEQ5 and it's a perfect partnership. 👍

[AlanP_]

5 minutes ago, Jamgood said:

I highly recommend a 130PDS. Great little scopes. I use mine on the HEQ5 and it's a perfect partnership. 👍

Think i'll go with that, just a matter of finding one now!

[malc-c]

The thing is asking this sort of question on a public forum will generate various responses.  I can't say an ED80 won't suit your needs as I personally haven't used one as a substitute for my 200P.  It has a focal ratio of 7.5 compared to the 200PDS's f5, so not as fast, and at 80mm objective compared to 200mm won't gather as much light, so would need longer exposures and with longer exposure comes a whole new can of worms.... but does that mean you won't achieve decent results, 'course not!  -   I based my comments on my own experience.  My 200P with an upgraded secondary on an HEQ5, did well even when using a ST80 piggybacked to it...  It does even better now I've opted to use the finder as the guider and reduced it weight a tad.  I would equally wonder if those who are suggesting the HEQ5 / 200P combo is not an ideal match are saying so from their personal experience or simply offering an opinion based on just that, an opinion.

Bottom line is that none of us can say what's suitable for you... we can make suggestions (ideally based on factual experience) but then its down to you to consider what suits your own circumstances.  As I type this "Jamgood" has posed his opinion, which looking at his signature, is based on his own set up.  The 130pDS is an f5 same as the 200P, so in theory exposures would be comparable, but the smaller objective means less resolution.  But would you notice that if two identical images were placed side by side using the same camera... probably not.  The 130PDS has the advantage of weight, so the setup is more stable, and less prone to wind than the 200P.... its all swings and roundabouts !!

You have a great mount.  What you put on it  will be down to your own personal preference, budget, location, and setup (ie if you are thinking permanent mount or mobile) 

[AlanP_]

2 minutes ago, malc-c said:

The thing is asking this sort of question on a public forum will generate various responses.  I can't say an ED80 won't suit your needs as I personally haven't used one as a substitute for my 200P.  It has a focal ratio of 7.5 compared to the 200PDS's f5, so not as fast, and at 80mm objective compared to 200mm won't gather as much light, so would need longer exposures and with longer exposure comes a whole new can of worms.... but does that mean you won't achieve decent results, 'course not!  -   I based my comments on my own experience.  My 200P with an upgraded secondary on an HEQ5, did well even when using a ST80 piggybacked to it...  It does even better now I've opted to use the finder as the guider and reduced it weight a tad.  I would equally wonder if those who are suggesting the HEQ5 / 200P combo is not an ideal match are saying so from their personal experience or simply offering an opinion based on just that, an opinion.

Bottom line is that none of us can say what's suitable for you... we can make suggestions (ideally based on factual experience) but then its down to you to consider what suits your own circumstances.  As I type this "Jamgood" has posed his opinion, which looking at his signature, is based on his own set up.  The 130pDS is an f5 same as the 200P, so in theory exposures would be comparable, but the smaller objective means less resolution.  But would you notice that if two identical images were placed side by side using the same camera... probably not.  The 130PDS has the advantage of weight, so the setup is more stable, and less prone to wind than the 200P.... its all swings and roundabouts !!

You have a great mount.  What you put on it  will be down to your own personal preference, budget, location, and setup (ie if you are thinking permanent mount or mobile) 

Very well put. I do want to get guiding and probably some extras in the future, so I think to start off I will try pick up a 130/150 PDS (whichever comes available first!) and go from there. I'm happy I waited a while to find a good deal on a HEQ5, I was considering a cheaper mount but my patience has paid off.

[malc-c]

18 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Very well put. I do want to get guiding and probably some extras in the future, so I think to start off I will try pick up a 130/150 PDS (whichever comes available first!) and go from there. I'm happy I waited a while to find a good deal on a HEQ5, I was considering a cheaper mount but my patience has paid off.

Not really a good analogy, but you could have a car with a 1000cc engine and another with a 3000cc engine.... both will get you from A to B, but the car with the smaller engine would be under more load with five adults aboard than the car with the larger engine.  The mount is the same... and for any mount there will be a limit.... I wouldn't consider putting a 250P on an HEQ5.... But an EQ6 would cope, and an EQ8 would take it in its stride.... but then you pay more for that ability, same as you would between the two cars....

You have the ideal platform on which to start the discovery....I should have also included availability in the list of options in my last post  

[AlanP_]

44 minutes ago, malc-c said:

Not really a good analogy, but you could have a car with a 1000cc engine and another with a 3000cc engine.... both will get you from A to B, but the car with the smaller engine would be under more load with five adults aboard than the car with the larger engine.  The mount is the same... and for any mount there will be a limit.... I wouldn't consider putting a 250P on an HEQ5.... But an EQ6 would cope, and an EQ8 would take it in its stride.... but then you pay more for that ability, same as you would between the two cars....

You have the ideal platform on which to start the discovery....I should have also included availability in the list of options in my last post  

Its good enough for me to understand it! Thanks for that.

Do you think I should look into getting autoguiding setup too or should I wait until I have more experience? I came across a good deal on a meade deep sky camera, would that be a good guide camera? 

[BrendanC]

As has already (correctly!) been pointed out, opinions on the guide scope will differ, but the way I approached it was to get the hang of what I was doing without guiding first, which enabled exposures up to 60 seconds, then when I knew what I was doing, took the next big step and started guiding. There really is so much to learn, it's always better to split this up into manageable chunks. This is not least because you need to know what to do when things go wrong - and they will go wrong, believe me - which you can only do when you really know your system. 

[malc-c]

1 hour ago, AlanP_ said:

 

Do you think I should look into getting autoguiding setup too or should I wait until I have more experience? I came across a good deal on a meade deep sky camera, would that be a good guide camera? 

Again, its not for me to steer your destiny (sounds like something out of Starwars  )...   I have no experience of that camera which has an RRP of around £1100.  How it compares to other cameras in that price bracket (or cameras costing half that) I can't say as I have never used one.

When I was looking at replacing my EQ5 the de facto guidescope that everyone used was an ST80 and QHY5 (shows how long ago that was !). Not sure how serious I was going to get, and being on a tight budget I opted to use a DSLR to dip my toe into the water.  I'm also in the middle of a town, so the skies are not ideal, so having a super sharp expensive cooled CCD camera may not give me the same results compared to a nice dark location.  For my level of imaging the DSLR has given me results I've been happy with.  He's one of my better efforts after I had modified the 400d and removed all the IR filters

 

 

Imaging is a dark art,  sometimes it can all fall into place, on other times it all goes tits up for no apparent reason.  Guiding is very important when imaging, whether it be done by  using an camera / guide scope and software running on a PC, or  connecting a autoguider or a camera with a port that uses the ST4 protocol directly to the mount, is again down to your personal preference.  My setup is in a ROR observatory, so I have a PC running EQMOD, PHD2 and APT.  As mentioned before I have a QHY5 (old original)  and it is used in PHD2 to send correcting commands via EQMOD (ASCOM) to the mount.  Now how better a job this does in comparison to a direct connected ST4 camera I can't say as I've never been inclined to try it.

I can't tell you to get the camera, if its a real bargain, and you're flush for cash, then grab the opportunity by the horns if it feel right.... You can always sell it on if you find you can't get to grips with it, or it doesn't give you the results you expected.

 

 

 

[rickwayne]

If you're going to get into guiding right away, be aware that it's one more thing to hook up, mount, and go wrong. Not trying to dissuade you, but there are so many things to set up, debug, and learn about that simple is often better. It's amazing what you can accomplish with 30-second exposures!

Guiding is one place where you can safely economize. There's absolutely no point going big on a scope or expensive on a camera -- quite the contrary, in fact. You want to keep the weight down, you only have around 15 pounds total to work with on an heq5. You should be fine with a 30-50mm scope and a nice cheap little (preferably mono) camera. You could start by using the finder shoe to mount the guidescope but many folk encounter differential-flexure problems with that so if you can, it's best to do something rigid (SVBONY make some guidescope rings that are super-inexpensive).

Do you already have a DSLR or other interchangeable-lens  camera? That would be great to start with. You'll probably need a coma corrector (if you go Newtonian) or field flattener/reducer (if refractor).

And you'll need something to control it all with. If you have a computer you can leave within USB range of the scope, and can run for as long as you want to image, there you go -- just a matter of picking the software. Several free options are available including NINA and KStars/Ekos. I work in the field a lot and wanted something that would run all night on a battery that would power the mount too, so I bought a Raspberry Pi, which does a great job. There is a free software suite for that called Astroberry which gives you a complete observatory system with KStars and Ekos. Others will no doubt recommend their favorites.