Hello - Looking for advice on first telescope

[FCN62]

Hi Everybody, 

Firstly, apologies I'm adding to the list of people looking for advice on their first telescope. I have been reading through previous posts to try and get some information, rather than asking this question again, but it's difficult as requirements across the board are a little different for everybody.

I've tried to read into everything as much as possible, but it's almost as if the more I read, the more confused I become...

We live in a dark sky area, and have some amazing views when the sky is clear, so don't have the requirement to travel with a telescope. I'm ideally looking for something that can view planets, the moons craters and DSO's (Would love to view nebulae etc.) I have a budget of £500.

When I first started searching, I contacted a specialist site, and when giving the loose specification, they advised me to look at:

- Skywatcher AZ-GTI range

- Celestron Astro-Fi range

When I've been looking through, I understand the bigger the aperture, the better the intake of light. I also read that telescopes with a fast rating (f5 etc.) could be better for DSO's? and if we wanted good magnification we then concentrate on the eyepieces? 

We aren't looking into astrophotography at all, so this isn't a requirement (Although if this could be utilised later down the line I guess that is always a plus!) 

The telescopes that jumped out at me were the:

- Celestron Astro-Fi 5 Schmidt-Cassegrain

- Celestron Nexstar 4SE

- Skywatcher SkyMax 127 AZ-GTI Maksutov

If I remember correctly, I think these are mostly slow telescopes. These telescopes seemed to crop up with good reviews, but I'm not sure if I am falling foul of them being common telescopes so there are more advertisements for them? - There could be a hidden gem that I just haven't hit upon yet! (I am a bit of an over-researcher, and that can sometimes be a downfall!)

Any help would be greatly appreciated. In the world of telescopes, I know £500 may not be deemed a lot, but I just want to make sure I get something that can stand the test of time, have a rigid tripod and we can get some good views as much as our budget will allow (Aware we won't be seeing the wonderful gassy nebulae we see in images)

 

 

[happy-kat]

Hi

As you would like DSO and planets turn if sticking with the GOTO motorised flavour then there is the skywatcher star didcovery 150p. Good light grasp with that mirror and should be good on DSO and planets. Plus the mount has freedom find so can be used totally manually useful if power runs flat. If not looking for an electronic mount then there is a dobsonian mounted 150p leaving plenty budget for eyepieces etc. Or a 150p on an altaz 4 on the steel legged tripod. 

I don't have one but I also like the look of the Az-GTi, plus it has the potential for imaging use with the eq capability through firmware update. 127mm mak is compact and gets great feedback as well.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of replies

Edited November 12, 2020 by happy-kat

[FCN62]

20 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

Hi

As you would like DSO and planets turn if sticking with the GOTO motorised flavour then there is the skywatcher star didcovery 150p. Good light grasp with that mirror and should be good on DSO and planets. Plus the mount has freedom find so can be used totally manually useful if power runs flat. If not looking for an electronic mount then there is a dobsonian mounted 150p leaving plenty budget for eyepieces etc.

Hi Happy Kat, 

Thank you for responding. The SW SD 150p rings a bell actually. I may have come across this, and reading into it, this does seem a really good option (I forgot to mention tracking and manual use would be great so this ticks a big box!) It looks like stock levels on this are pretty non existent, so a 2021 delivery might be the only option, but I don't mind waiting for the right one (It's going to be a part christmas present, but an 'it's coming...' card will suffice I'm sure!)

I've also just come across an old post in 2016 when somebody was discussing this option. It also mentioned a SW 200p which looks great but just out of my budget, but it looks like a fair few people reacted to the 150p positively.  

Edited November 12, 2020 by FCN62

[Alan64]

I would strive for as much aperture as possible, and over a go-to kit.  The Newtonians on go-to mounts are not fully collimatable, and to save weight.  I, too, suggest the Sky-Watcher 150mm f/8 Newtonian-Dobson.  

[Cosmic Geoff]

Be aware that there are sharply different opinions here on the merit of 'GoTo'.  Personally, I would not be without it for my principal telescopes.

The telescopes you cite are all fine, and in a dark skies area should keep you occupied for years. 

The mounts though, may be a different matter, and may well prove to under-mount these scopes. Also give a thought as to whether you want wifi control via a phone or tablet, or via the potentially less troublesome cabled handset.  A really rigid GoTo mount for any of these scopes could consume your entire £500 budget.  Some of those tripods seem the same as the tripod of my 127mm Mak, a tripod I rarely use now because I consider it too wobbly.

[FCN62]

2 hours ago, Alan64 said:

I would strive for as much aperture as possible, and over a go-to kit.  The Newtonians on go-to mounts are not fully collimatable, and to save weight.  I, too, suggest the Sky-Watcher 150mm f/8 Newtonian-Dobson.  

Hi Alan64

Yes, I'm trying to get as much aperture as I can whilst balancing quality. Astronomy is definitely a fine art!! The 150 does sound like a good first approach however. Thank you.

[orions_boot]

I have just got my first scope after 20 years when I used a plastic something from Argos when I was a kid.

I looked at goto and none goto.  The goto stuff is expensive and seem to be paying for the electronics and losing out on the optics unless you spend £1000+.  Part of the interest for me and could also be for you, is planning/studying/executing an observation.  Researching maps and how to navigate to the object you want.  I think I would lose half my fun if I dialled in to a computer and then just had a look but it is probably more efficient.

I don't know half as much as most people here know and cannot compare equipment.  I can only recommend the scope I have bought https://www.bresseruk.com/bresser-messier-10-dobsonian-telescope.html at around £535 it is almost in your budget but only comes with 1x 25mm eye piece.  Based on my research cheaper scopes come with more stuff which is often rubbish anyway.  It seems to pay to spend all of the money on the scope and buy the stuff you want after.

Scope plus base is 36kg.  Took me 1 hour to put together and 10 minutes to setup the finder and check collimation.  The tube very easily lifts off so you can move both parts separate.  Like I say I don't know about any other scopes but that same day I was looking at Saturn and the rings (separated from the planet) and then polar ice cap on Mars.  Given how small and far away these things but how clearly I could see them suggests the equipment is pretty good.

[FCN62]

18 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Be aware that there are sharply different opinions here on the merit of 'GoTo'.  Personally, I would not be without it for my principal telescopes.

The telescopes you cite are all fine, and in a dark skies area should keep you occupied for years. 

The mounts though, may be a different matter, and may well prove to under-mount these scopes. Also give a thought as to whether you want wifi control via a phone or tablet, or via the potentially less troublesome cabled handset.  A really rigid GoTo mount for any of these scopes could consume your entire £500 budget.  Some of those tripods seem the same as the tripod of my 127mm Mak, a tripod I rarely use now because I consider it too wobbly.

Hi Cosmic Geoff,

For us personally, the GoTo capability would be incredibly useful, and as Happy Kat stated, to have the ability to utilise both GoTo and manual capability would be great. I don't think I would ever go solely manual however, at least not at this stage. 

The handset vs. the mobile - This was something I was pondering. Initially I liked the idea of the handset which is why I looked at the Celestron 4SE (Although not sure that allows manual function as well) I thought the alignment might be better. It's so difficult to balance everything, that's possibly why it's taking me so long to come to a decision. I wouldn't like a bad quality image due to a sub-standard tripod, but guess I also have to be realistic given the budget.  

 

 

 

[Cosmic Geoff]

6 minutes ago, FCN62 said:

For us personally, the GoTo capability would be incredibly useful, and as Happy Kat stated, to have the ability to utilise both GoTo and manual capability would be great. I don't think I would ever go solely manual however, at least not at this stage. 

I have never seen the point of having a manual capability.  A star alignment does not take long compared with the faff of erecting the telescope and carrying out the accessories.  To find Mars manually I would have to slew the telescope and fiddle about peering in the finder.  Why bother when I can just press 'Mars' and wait a bit?  At most, with 'Freedom Find' I would not have to wait for it to slew.

BTW, I have both Celestron Nexstar alt-azimuth GoTos and Skywatcher Synscan equatorial GoTo and I find the Nexstar easier to use and quicker to set up.

[FCN62]

15 minutes ago, orions_boot said:

I have just got my first scope after 20 years when I used a plastic something from Argos when I was a kid.

I looked at goto and none goto.  The goto stuff is expensive and seem to be paying for the electronics and losing out on the optics unless you spend £1000+.  Part of the interest for me and could also be for you, is planning/studying/executing an observation.  Researching maps and how to navigate to the object you want.  I think I would lose half my fun if I dialled in to a computer and then just had a look but it is probably more efficient.

I don't know half as much as most people here know and cannot compare equipment.  I can only recommend the scope I have bought https://www.bresseruk.com/bresser-messier-10-dobsonian-telescope.html at around £535 it is almost in your budget but only comes with 1x 25mm eye piece.  Based on my research cheaper scopes come with more stuff which is often rubbish anyway.  It seems to pay to spend all of the money on the scope and buy the stuff you want after.

Scope plus base is 36kg.  Took me 1 hour to put together and 10 minutes to setup the finder and check collimation.  The tube very easily lifts off so you can move both parts separate.  Like I say I don't know about any other scopes but that same day I was looking at Saturn and the rings (separated from the planet) and then polar ice cap on Mars.  Given how small and far away these things but how clearly I could see them suggests the equipment is pretty good.

Hi Orions_Boot, 

Thank you for this. That's actually really interesting to hear from someone getting back into everything. And a 10" near the budget is fantastic. I've just had a look at the link you sent through and you make a really good point about fewer accessories, better quality. It looks like the additions you can buy for this are good quality too. I agree, with the GoTo products you are paying for the electronics. The romantic in me wants to believe that we will be interested in scanning the night sky and reading it, and I think at some point, we'll actually build to this (I can already sense I'm becoming quite fascinated all over again, as I was when I was younger) but I think initially, a GoTo would have a lot of positives for us. 

It's definitely a fact that looking at a GoTo for the budget, we're looking at a smaller aperture. It's proving really useful having posted on here as it is making me weight things up a little differently. It looks like the telescope you have provides a lot of options moving forward, and would be great for nebulae etc. 

 

[FCN62]

2 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I have never seen the point of having a manual capability.  A star alignment does not take long compared with the faff of erecting the telescope and carrying out the accessories.  To find Mars manually I would have to slew the telescope and fiddle about peering in the finder.  Why bother when I can just press 'Mars' and wait a bit?  At most, with 'Freedom Find' I would not have to wait for it to slew.

BTW, I have both Celestron Nexstar alt-azimuth GoTos and Skywatcher Synscan equatorial GoTo and I find the Nexstar easier to use and quicker to set up.

Aware that the Nexstar you have is over double the budget of the 4SE and double the aperture! but how is it for DSO's? Do you think the 4SE would provide a good view? I'm beginning to think the 4" is far too small and we're not going to be getting enough scope for the budget. 

[Tiny Clanger]

My thought (as a relative beginner, and with zero personal experience of any of the 'scopes or mounts you mention) : Only you can be sure that goto is something which will be worth it for you . Clearly within any given budget, a scope and manual mount will be better quality than 'scope plus mount plus goto for the same price.

If you choose a better quality 'scope with fewer bundled accessories, don't forget to price up the extras you will need to buy : expect to spend at least £30 to £50 for a finder or eyepiece .

My approach has been to choose what I've bought not seeing it as a self contained one-off package, but as components for an evolving tool kit. I suppose it felt a natural way for me because I'm from a photography background. I dabbled a toe in serious telescopes with minimal outlay by getting a purely manual  150mm dob for £200, and using that for 3 months has shown me plenty of interesting things, and confirmed that spending on more kit is worthwhile for me.

That probably doesn't help at all does it !  😟

[orions_boot]

43 minutes ago, FCN62 said:

. It looks like the telescope you have provides a lot of options moving forward, and would be great for nebulae etc. 

 

I am not a bresser sales person but I can say yes you are right.  In the few nights I have used (total about 3-4 hrs) I clocked up 7 Messier objects and 2 NGC objects some of which I spent a long time looking at switching eye pieces and filters.  It is really easy to move the scope around and follow the object.

Do you want a goto for efficiency or because you think it would be difficult to find things? 

But someone else is right you do need to spend extra almost straight off the bat on at least one more eye piece for zoomed views.  Desirables but not needed include a new finder scope and a quickfinder.  One option is if you are going to buy a scope with cheaper eye pieces included, buy the slightly better scope and spend £20-£30 on the eye piece you would have got with the cheaper scope.  Then you have a better scope but it will be limited by the eye piece.

Unfortunately its like everything where I think you get what you pay for.  You can buy cheaper in the short term and upgrade but then it costs more in the end.

[FCN62]

39 minutes ago, Tiny Clanger said:

That probably doesn't help at all does it !  😟

Hi Tiny Clanger, 

No it really does help  To have different peoples experiences from different levels is really useful. I do think that having a telescope that can evolve over time with different kit is hugely advantageous. I'm beginning to wish I had posted to this forum earlier, as I was planning on this scope as a Christmas gift, but the feedback is making me look at things a little differently. 

It's clear I'd get a better scope without the GoTo feature. The reason I looked at GoTo is, as ridiculous as it sounds, we find such little time in our days (Or evenings/nights in this case) and whilst I would love to think we could research and learn the night sky, I think the reality would be that we're cold, tired, and 30-mins to an hour in, we still won't have found what we wanted 😂  I do think with time that would change, and I think the more we came to use a telescope, we would perhaps want to step outside of the box a little bit, but for us at the minute I think a GoTo would really add value - I'm just struggling to accept that you get a little less bang for your buck, although I'm sure the telescopes I've been looking at are more than adequate for beginners. 

I also think what makes this difficult is the inability to go into a shop and see these things, feel the quality etc. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

57 minutes ago, FCN62 said:

Aware that the Nexstar you have is over double the budget of the 4SE and double the aperture! but how is it for DSO's? Do you think the 4SE would provide a good view? I'm beginning to think the 4" is far too small and we're not going to be getting enough scope for the budget. 

From a dark skies site, the C8 SE was great for looking at DSOs - I could find them quickly with the GoTo and found lots.  I also took my 102mm refractor + GoTo mount to a dark skies site and saw some DSOs with it.  But if seeing galaxies is a priority you need aperture.

BTW, SCTs are often available used at greatly reduced prices, possibly because people buy them with deepsky imaging in mind and then find they've been misled by inflated claims.

[jacobingonzo]

As usual lots of sound advice here- I’m all for getting as much arpeture as you can afford for purely planetary and dso usage - goto are fine and dandy but you will have your budget gobbled up with the goto bit and I’m sure as eggs are eggs you will soon wish you had plumbed for more arpeture. Manual is a pain at first but you will soon learn the heavens and you always have the opportunity to upgrade to goto at a later date as you evolve. So for me I’d say dobsonian for stability and for 500 an 8” is within your grasp - views will be good and should you wish to move on it will easily sell on the used market - just my 2p and as they say other scopes are available- good luck and let us know how you get on 

 

J

Edited November 12, 2020 by jacobingonzo

[FCN62]

18 minutes ago, orions_boot said:

You can buy cheaper in the short term and upgrade but then it costs more in the end.

This is so true. I'm a big follower of 'buy cheap buy twice'! 

I really wouldn't mind buying additional accessories at extra cost if I knew I was getting a good quality telescope and this only added to it. 

The reason I looked at the GoTo was for the ability to find things. I do think we'd like to dabble in manually finding things, but I don't think at this point we would want to solely rely on that. 

[FCN62]

4 minutes ago, jacobingonzo said:

As usual lots of sound advice here- I’m all for getting as much arpeture as you can afford for purely planetary and dso usage - goto are fine and dandy but you will have your budget gobbled up with the goto bit and I’m sure as eggs are eggs you will soon wish you had plumbed for more arpeture. Manual is a pain at first but you will soon learn the heavens and you always have the opportunity to upgrade to goto at a later date as you evolve. So for me I’d say dobsonian for stability and for 500 an 8” is within your grasp - views will be good and should you wish to move on it will easily sell on the used market - just my 2p and as they say other scopes are available- good luck and let us know how you get on 

 

J

Thank you, really good advice. I worry I'd want more from a telescope and would outgrow the GoTo. And I think there are some really great GoTo's out there, but at the budget I am looking at, I don't think that quality is hitting the aperture/scope kit. I need to re-think. 

And that is also good to know regarding resale, because I did wonder how things like this sell if we progressed and wanted to change.

[orions_boot]

20 minutes ago, FCN62 said:

 I worry I'd want more from a telescope and would outgrow the GoTo. 

 

That is my concern for you - spending twice to get to what you want.  I think you can summarise the options as follows:

1) find something quite quickly and find multiple things in a short time, and see them to some extent

2) find a few things a bit slower but seem them in higher detail.

I know I can only speak for my self but it is not as difficult as it may seem to find things.  Sky at Night Magazine have a 'deep sky tour' every month with a blown up star chart and all sorts of details.  That is one example of an easy to use set of directions.

[happy-kat]

Think about practicalities. Will there be stairs between storage and observing location. Telescopes get heavier as they get bigger, consider any implications of moving heavy objects. If viewing is a shared experience with others then tracking is useful and 'freedom find' doesn't lose alignment it the telescope (not tripod) is nudged or moved.

Edited November 12, 2020 by happy-kat

[Tiny Clanger]

2 hours ago, FCN62 said:

Hi Tiny Clanger, 

No it really does help  To have different peoples experiences from different levels is really useful. I do think that having a telescope that can evolve over time with different kit is hugely advantageous. I'm beginning to wish I had posted to this forum earlier, as I was planning on this scope as a Christmas gift, but the feedback is making me look at things a little differently. 

It's clear I'd get a better scope without the GoTo feature. The reason I looked at GoTo is, as ridiculous as it sounds, we find such little time in our days (Or evenings/nights in this case) and whilst I would love to think we could research and learn the night sky, I think the reality would be that we're cold, tired, and 30-mins to an hour in, we still won't have found what we wanted 😂  I do think with time that would change, and I think the more we came to use a telescope, we would perhaps want to step outside of the box a little bit, but for us at the minute I think a GoTo would really add value - I'm just struggling to accept that you get a little less bang for your buck, although I'm sure the telescopes I've been looking at are more than adequate for beginners. 

I also think what makes this difficult is the inability to go into a shop and see these things, feel the quality etc. 

Glad my input was less pointless than I thought !

Coming back to your situation refreshed after I've been for a nice long country walk, I'll add a little more to the confusion ...

You seem pretty much sold on a goto mount, so maybe solicit opinions of which of the models available below £300 ( a quick look suggests there are 2 skywatcher alt/az which, with tripod will be around £285 ish, there may be others available) would be best for you. I'm sure there will be people on here who have experience of both.

Then, once you have made that decision, you can look to see not only what can be bought bundled with the mount as a package by the manufacturer, but also at any OTA (optical tube assemblies) from any manufacturer in the £200 ish range . You will have to take notice of the specified weight limit for the mount you choose, but that might be a good thing , narrowing the choices for you a bit.

If a 'scope is available as an OTA only as well as (or instead of) in a package, it suggests to me that serious hobbyists will buy it, which says something about the 'scope. You won't get a single setup which is a perfect tool for observing every type of object whatever you spend, it's always going to be a compromise .

I don't think going into a shop would help you to be honest : what would be a great way to help steer you to something you'll enjoy using would be to attend a local astro society observing evening and get to see the things actually in use ... but that's not going to happen soon either ....

Heather

[Alan64]

8 hours ago, FCN62 said:

Hi Alan64

Yes, I'm trying to get as much aperture as I can whilst balancing quality. Astronomy is definitely a fine art!! The 150 does sound like a good first approach however. Thank you.

"Skywatcher SkyMax 127 AZ-GTI Maksutov"

If you choose the Celestron Astro-Fi 5 Schmidt-Cassegrain, know that its secondary-obstruction is somewhat larger(left), likely resulting in less-sharp images...

But the Celestron Schmidt would be somewhat lighter in weight, and somewhat easier to reach the lower powers with a wider field-of-view; more of an all-rounder, in so far as a planetary telescope might aspire.

Still, I'd choose the Maksutov.

[FCN62]

Hi Everyone, 

Thank you so much for all of your thoughts, experiences and advice. I finally deleted the mass of tabs I had open, and have started from scratch to try and find the right scope. 

I really thought the GoTo was the right option,and very nearly committed before posting to this forum. However, whilst it would be nice to press a button and view, having thought about it, I really think to make the most of the dark skies we have as well as the scope of view, a larger aperture would give us so much more.

I really like the look of the Bresser Messier 10" dobsonian telescope, although they're not available (looking likely to become available in Jan 2021 - which would be fine) But I also wondered if anybody had any thoughts on the the Sky-Watcher Skyliner-250PX FlexTube Parabolic Dobsonian Telescope? 

I take into account your point about storage happy_kat. We're actually OK for storage and won't have any obstacles in getting the scope in/out, but I did notice these collapsible tubes and wondered if quality was any worse because of the set up? (Wonder if they're more likely to need tweaking etc. over time with such a key moving part?) Reviews seem to be fine, I just wonder if the rigid Bresser would stand up to more. 

Kind regards, 

[happy-kat]

Depending on storage location and observing spot you might find leaving the whole lot on a dolly/wheeled base might work for you. There's various pictures on the forum of member's solutions