Half decent 6" Achro refractor?

[GordonCopestake]

Following on from another thread:

Personally for a good all round telescope I would choose a 6" 1000mm APO refractor. Unfortunatly i've not paid off my mortgage yet so cannot afford one.

In the mean time I use a Celestron 8" SCT. This is cheap (ish) and has enough aperture for DSO's and enough focal length for planets. This is a personal preference and not a hard and fast rule, but the popularity of the 8" SCT over the last 20 years shows that it hits a lot of targets.

Alternativly take a look at a 6" f5 newts. The Orion Optics Europa range has excellent optics and engineering for a fairly low budget. I dislike newts though because of the large physical size. The best thing you can do is join your local club and acually get your hands on some scopes to get the feel. You wont know what you like or dislike until you've used a scope for a little while.

At the end of the day, the best telescope is the one you actually use.

Does anyone know of a good achro 6" 1000mm refractor that wont break the bank and wont get me killed by SWMBO? Or is it worth saving my pennies and getting the APO when i retire?

[GazOC]

The Antares range (6" and 990mm is close enough eh?) at www.scopestuff.com and the Teleskop Service ones of the same spec are both well though of. Both are around 350 plus post (and tax/import in Scopestuffs case).

My philosophy would be to get one now and sell it when you can the afford the 6" Apo, if you can afford the Apo you can afford to take the 100 quid depreiciation hit on the achro....

[GordonCopestake]

Nice one Gaz, didn't know about those. Is there a UK distributer?

[GazOC]

Is there a UK distributer?

Yes, Bray Imaging. But they are expensive, the cheapest way (I think!) is to buy direct from Teleskop Service in Germany. I've bought quite a few things off them and they are spot on. Postage will be about 20 quid (I'd guess, my 8" Dob from them cost 35 to post) and no import tax.

[GordonCopestake]

Thanks Gaz. I like the look of the 1529.

TSR 1529 OTA Refractor 152/990mm optical tube/cradle rings/finder (no further accessories)

You can choose between white and black tube colour Euros 499

500 Euros isn't that much. But i'de have to sell the SCT first i think hehe. I'll keep my eyes open for a second hand one.

[GazOC]

I've got a secondhand 152 f8 model on the way (well, hopefully. The seller isn't the most communicative guy in the world), I'll let you know what I think.

[GordonCopestake]

Just spotted that the tube is nearly 10kg thats over the 7kg limit of my vixen GP mount. I might have to look at a smaller aperture as my mount at the moment is at the limit of my portability. I'de rather go lighter if i could so it looks like im going to have to look at 127 or even 102 scopes.

[GordonCopestake]

It's a shame they dont use carbon fibre tubes, but then i guess they wouldn't wear as well.

[GazOC]

7 kgs sounds a bit conservative for a Vixen GP? I think it would have no trouble with the 127 f6.5, I've got a 127 f9.4 on a EQ5 which is fine for visual, I also used to have a 150 f5 on it which was solid as well. I think you'd be OK with the 150 f6.5...

EQ5 and GP are rated for the same payload arn't they? (If not, ignore the above! )

[GordonCopestake]

7 kgs sounds a bit conservative for a Vixen GP? I think it would have no trouble with the 127 f6.5, I've got a 127 f9.4 on a EQ5 which is fine for visual, I also used to have a 150 f5 on it which was solid as well. I think you'd be OK with the 150 f6.5...

EQ5 and GP are rated for the same payload arn't they? (If not, ignore the above! )

By the book the GP is rated at 7kg. The GP-DX is rated at 10kg. Although with my 8" SCT and 5kg Counterweight the whole thing is about 25kg. I can pick it up in one piece just about, but to move it i need to take it apart (like most do). I think after using the scope for a little while (only had it a month or so) i'de prefer something a little lighter. Perhaps even 5-10kg lighter. Im trapped by the desire for aperture and my ability to lug 25kg of equipment outside every night. I like the SCT (what little i've been able to use it with all these blumming clouds) but im starting to see the lure of the big refractors with there higher contrast.

Russ: It took me a while, but now i know what you were on about with the refractors!

[russ]

Hi Gordon,

Yep the refractors seem to be succeeding in the quest for world domination. It's hard to ignore all their plus points. Especially if you want 'easy street'.

Beware of the 6" achros though. Their weight and size will be equal to, if not greater than the C8. And i doubt very much they could outperform the C8 either. You'll be left wondering why you swapped. I know from personal experience.

The refractors make most sense between 80mm and 127mm. The 80-100mm fracs are compact and light. But punch above their weight. The 127 f6 is still compact and not overly heavy.

Russ

[GordonCopestake]

Hi Gordon,

Yep the refractors seem to be succeeding in the quest for world domination. It's hard to ignore all their plus points. Especially if you want 'easy street'.

Beware of the 6" achros though. Their weight and size will be equal to, if not greater than the C8. And i doubt very much they could outperform the C8 either. You'll be left wondering why you swapped. I know from personal experience.

The refractors make most sense between 80mm and 127mm. The 80-100mm fracs are compact and light. But punch above their weight. The 127 f6 is still compact and not overly heavy.

Russ

I think you are right. I may have to start saving my pennies and wait until i can afford a 127mm APO (maybe the TV127 i'll have to sell the car as well as the sct hehe). Although im sure once i have that it wont be exactly right. Then i'll want GOTO or some such. Then there will be some other new toy that i need. it's an ever decreasing spiral into being skint hehe

[GordonCopestake]

Ahhhhh. Found the one i want! TMB 130 f6

http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk/page.aspx?theLang=001lngdef&pointerid=EC56E9108DD745B69F00ADFAF714C772&action=lnk

7kg, perfect for my mount if not for my back. 130mm aperture, although only 780mm focal length.

Now i just need to see if i can sell my kidney on ebay....

Although looking, this one looks much cheaper: Evostar 120 Apochromat Tube Assembly . Only £1500.

http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk/page.aspx?theLang=001lngdef&pointerid=BC9B119B5B104DC6A7440309F8C6B91F&action=lnk

[GazOC]

Although looking, this one looks much cheaper: Evostar 120 Apochromat Tube Assembly . Only £1500.

http://www.telescopehouse.co.uk/page.aspx?theLang=001lngdef&pointerid=BC9B119B5B104DC6A7440309F8C6B91F&action=lnk

:nono: :nono: :nono:

[russ]

Gordon, checkout the Meade 127 Apo on the Telescope House website. About the same price as they have the Evostar 120 listed for but should be better in all areas.

btw - take no notice of that price for the Evostar 120. Thats Telescope House prices and bare no relation to real world pricing. The Evostar 120 is available for approx £1000-1200 from other retailers, Ian King for example.

Which makes the Evostar £300-500 cheaper than the Meade. Plenty left over for a really nice focuser from William Optics and a really nice eyepiece.

Russ

[GazOC]

Do you know anyone who has got/looked through those one of ED120s Russ? I've not seen a 'proper' review and the comments on Cloudynights are 'mixed' to say the least..

[GordonCopestake]

Gordon, checkout the Meade 127 Apo on the Telescope House website. About the same price as they have the Evostar 120 listed for but should be better in all areas.

btw - take no notice of that price for the Evostar 120. Thats Telescope House prices and bare no relation to real world pricing. The Evostar 120 is available for approx £1000-1200 from other retailers, Ian King for example.

Which makes the Evostar £300-500 cheaper than the Meade. Plenty left over for a really nice focuser from William Optics and a really nice eyepiece.

Russ

Blimy, Ian King's prices are excellent. I might buy the Vixen 70mm just because it's only 50 quid!

The Meade 5000 Series 127mm ED is £1500, and I assume much better than the skywatcher.

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Is the skywatcher that bad? hehe

[russ]

Gaz, reviews are non existent. And I don't know a soul who has one. I bit off putting really. :?

Russ

[russ]

The Meade 5000 Series 127mm ED is £1500, and I assume much better than the skywatcher.

that's undecided Gordon. Can't find reviews on the Skywatcher and the Meade hasn't reached retail yet.

I'm also very wary of Meade marketing. They can put a spin on anything. You only have you to look at the LXD55 range.

Best wait for some reviews before jumping in on that one.

Russ

[GordonCopestake]

The Meade 5000 Series 127mm ED is £1500, and I assume much better than the skywatcher.

that's undecided Gordon. Can't find reviews on the Skywatcher and the Meade hasn't reached retail yet.

I'm also very wary of Meade marketing. They can put a spin on anything. You only have you to look at the LXD55 range.

Best wait for some reviews before jumping in on that one.

Russ

Well i've got plenty of time before SWMBO allows me to spend any more cash on telescopes hehe. Lots of time to save up!

[GazOC]

:nono: :nono: :nono:

Is the skywatcher that bad? hehe

I don't know, but 1500 quid is a lot to spend on a "don't know"

The only comments I've seen are from people in the trade (or on the edges of it) who have the chance to test these things as they come in. As I say ,"mixed" is the polite way of putting it....

One way to look at it is Skywatcher needed to make the ED80 an f6 scope to get the colour correction they wanted, then they made the ED100 an f7.5 to keep that level of correction. The ED120 being a f7.5 just doesn't add up, it should be around f10, but then Skywatcher would be trying to sell a 1200mm apo!! IMHO they've probably compromised performance for size.

[russ]

One way to look at it is Skywatcher needed to make the ED80 an f6 scope to get the colour correction they wanted, then they made the ED100 an f7.5 to keep that level of correction. The ED120 being a f7.5 just doesn't add up, it should be around f10, but then Skywatcher would be trying to sell a 1200mm apo!! IMHO they've probably compromised performance for size.

Gaz, it's actually worse than you describe. The 80 is f7.5, the 100 is f9 and the 120 is f7.5. As you say, it doesn't add up.

What concerns me most is the fact Orion USA didn't take up the option of 120ED, implying they knew it may harm their extremely good reputation.

I think 120ED will quietly vanish without trace, swept under the carpet.

Russ

[GazOC]

Yep, sorry Russ. ED120 should be f12 ish then!

[GordonCopestake]

Yep, sorry Russ. ED120 should be f12 ish then!

I dont think a 1400 - 1600 focal length scope would be that bad. Obviously more a planetary scope, but even so it could have found a market. Seems a shame to create an APO that doesn't live up to expectations. I hope not too many people will be disapointed. Although saying that, im sure that the people who buy these scopes without the research or knowledge wont notice that anything is wrong and will be more than happy with their purchase. Or maybe not.

[FLO]

The more I hear about the new Bresser Messier range refractors/mounts, the more I like them.

This one has particularly caught my eye:

http://tinyurl.com/plnxj