Daystar Solar Kit

[Carbon Brush]

While at the Kettering show, I saw some Daystar scopes on sale. As I have already spent on solar, these were of academic interest only.
Or maybe providing grounds to kick myself if I saw something that knocked the spots off my Lunt kit?

I did though come away somewhat confused after speaking with a couple of retailers and knowledgeable people.

Products on offer included the Solar Scout 60mm, a virtually identical 60mm scope at about £1150 and the Quark eyepiece at around £1100.
All show special prices. Now back to the standard price presumably.

Looking from the perspective of the uneducated buyer, this is what I immediately saw.

The Solar scout looks like a real bargain at £700 for an Ha scope. But next to it was another 60mm Ha scope with apparently the same Quark-Ha filter bit on the back.
The only differences being a metal (not plastic) focus ring, a carbon tube (but it saves little weight) and a peli type case rather than a cardboard box.
I could not see any grounds for spending £450 for the 'extras'.

Then of course if the Quark filter/eyepiece stand alone is £1100, how can you sell a complete scope for £700?

The logical answer (to me) is that the lower cost complete scope is not going to perform as well in terms of bandwidth or tuneability.
But over to the expert opinions.

Retailer 1 did not know why apparently similar scopes were £700 vs £1150. Despite having both on his stand.

Retailer 2 explained that the Quark in the solar scout did not have the same filtering and was therefore unsuitable for removal and grafting to a different tube.
This was how the cost saving was achieved.

A knowledgeable person was confused by the two 60mm scopes and could only say that the carbon tube was probably the reason for the cost difference.
But he did not sound like he was convincing himself, let alone me.

At the end of the day I did not feel that I could have reasonably made a cost/performance/size/package choice based on the information available.
If I had reached into my pocket for the plastic, it would have been risky.

By comparison, when looking at different Lunt solar products, after a little research I felt I had a good feel for the objective, blocking filter and etalon options.
Enabling me to make a cost/versatility/usefulness judgement.

In round figures, I could have bought several Daystar products for the cost of a double stack Lunt package.
If they really are only good for certain viewing (prominence OR surface but not both) then you buy more than one.
Not quite a scope for each day of the week. But run the numbers for yourself on new and used costs.

I am not out to 'Daystar bash'. I am sure there are lots of happy users of their products.
But surely my experience was not unique?

It would be interesting to hear comments from others on how they arrived at their scope/filter choice.

 

[Peter Drew]

You're not the only one intrigued by the Solar Scout. Despite many claimed to have been sold, no reviews or performance details seem to have been reported.

I think "Retailer 2" was probably nearer the mark, a combination of an inexpensive 60mm telescope combined with possibly a minimum standard Quark plus the fact that the Quark element could not be interchanged to other telescopes accounted for the low price. I have to say that the advertising for this product was vague to say the least. Still waiting with interest for some real world use report.   ?

[Highburymark]

You're right - the strategic thinking behind these products is bizarre - a so called 'double stack' 60mm telescope featuring an inbuilt Quark for £700, undercutting the actual Quark by £400, and a double stacked Lunt by thousands.The couple of people I've spoken to who have briefly glanced through the Solar Scout 60 have said they're ok, but certainly not a quantum leap over the PST or Lunt 50. But there's so little comment from users online. I think everyone wants to see the entry cost of ha solar to come down, so hopes are still high for this product - but without a larger base of credible reviews it's difficult to know if they present value for money against other proven scopes

[petevasey]

I owned a Quark eyepiece for a while from Summer 2016 to early 2017.  I had mixed experiences with it,, some good, some bad.  I found the delay while reaching operating temperature very frustrating, particularly if trying to tune it for the best results.  Another problem I had was getting rid of Newton's Rings.  This was partly down to the monochrome GPCAM2  I was using which was very prone to produce them with the heavily barlowed Quark, and often I would find that part of the image was out of focus due to the amount of tilt required using the Altair interference eliminator.  To be fair that appeared to be particular to the mono camera - a GPCAM2 colour camera was ok, but of course has a lower resolution than the mono.  Certainly under good seeing conditions, using the camera on my 4" TMB refractor I was very pleased with some of the images.  Altair of course push their 6" Red achromat for use with the Quark, and certainly the extra resolution produces superb images in good conditions.  But a considerable extra cost for the full aperture energy rejection filter, and unless you use a  camera with a large sensor the field of view is quite small.

When galaxy season approached my 10" RC was the main telescope in my observatory,  Frequently swapping it with the TMB was a right pain!  For some years I had been using a Solarview50 which I still have.  A joy to use, lightweight so just sat on the side of the mount, and no delays waiting for the temperature to stabilise.  You all know the adage - 'the best telescope is the one you use the most'.  So I sold the Quark for a reasonable price.  More info and pictures towards the bottom of my Solar page.  As it turns out, the Sun has been so quiet recently that neither item would have seen much use.  The above experience is of course particular to me.  But sometimes it's worth spending the extra to get something which is easy and quick to use.

Cheers,

Peter

Edited March 11, 2019 by petevasey

[paulastro]

Ah well, I suspect for HA equipment, we must all have to put up with the fact that if it looks too cheap to be true, then it probably is - at least for now? 

[Craney]

I have often wondered if the Quark eyepieces or adapted telescopes (like the Solarscout) have a known lifetime in terms of use  ??

Not being familiar with their internals I not really sure if they will keep on going forever, providing the electrics etc are all functioning......

 

 

 

[petevasey]

22 hours ago, paulastro said:

Ah well, I suspect for HA equipment, we must all have to put up with the fact that if it looks too cheap to be true, then it probably is - at least for now? 

Of course over the years prices have come down considerably for some , but not all, Ha equipment.  To be fair, although I think the Solarview offerings are superb, when I bought my 50mm unit in 2005 there was little or no competition of similar quality.  It was high end price even then, but it has stood the test of time, still performing beautifully.  A few years later along came the little Coronado based PST which gave reasonable results at a very competitive price.  Lunt now appears to be the main contender, and Solarview very much in the minority, with even the 50 mm costing almost £5000!  A friend of mine has a Lunt, not sure if it's 50 or 60 mm, but I still think my Solarview gives a superior image.  But the Lunt 50 is less than 1/3rd of the price of the Solarview 50!  So in essence pretty good value for money as would appear to be all the lower priced units.  I suppose the best advice as always is to try before you buy.

Cheers,

Peter.

[petevasey]

There is now a full review of the Solar Scout 60 mm in the April issue of Sky at Night magazine, just out.  They seem quite impressed by it, 5 stars for features, 4 stars for image quality, 4 1/2 stars overall.  The claimed bandwidth is 0.5 Angstroms, aimed more at surface features than prominences.  The review doesn't appear to be on their web site yet, no doubt it will appear in due course.

I don't think there's any doubt that it represents good value for money.  Handy in that it's 'grab and go' using a lightweight mount.  The only reservation I would have (as I found with my Quark ) is the time it takes, 5-10 minutes, to reach stable operating temperature.  And of course you need a decent source of 5 volt power.  So really 'grab, go and wait a while' ?

Let's hope that the next Solar maximum is more productive of features than the last.  It's many years since we had a really good display of sunspots.  This one (through thin cloud) is from March 2001, and predates my Solarscope, so white light only.

Cheers,

Peter.

Edited March 20, 2019 by petevasey

[Geoff Lister]

I have used solar film fitted in the lens covers of my 90 and 120mm refractors, but realised that if I wanted more detail in the view, I had to get a dedicated Ha instrument. Last week, I received a parcel from FLO, (very speedy service, and with the usual "May Contain Clouds" sticker), containing a Daystar Solar Scout 60.

The sticker was correct, but last Sunday (6th) the sky was largely cloud-free. The package contained a plug-top 5V 1.5A USB A, PSU, but with input pins designed for USA mains sockets. I found an adaptor in my "bits box", but I also tried the 5V 2A supply that came with my Android tablet, and a USB battery pack with 2.1A output; both seemed to work. I have a plug-in mains power meter, and I found that, whilst the unit was warming up, the input power to the supply peaked close to 8W, so the 1.5A supply may be close to current-limit at times.

I borrowed the diagonal from my ST120 and started with a Celestron "Omni" 32mm Plossl EP. The adjustment knob has click positions, with "hourly" intervals from 1 o'clock to 11 o'clock, so I started at 6 o'clock. The view was clear and bright, but no obvious detail, except a minor ripple running round the disk (of similar amplitude and frequency to that round the Moon when I used another OTA as the Sun was setting below roof height). I tried each of the adjustment settings, but could not see any obvious detail on the disk (there was much more activity from my eye's floaters).

During the last half-hour of sunlight, I replaced the EP with my (colour) GPCAM + 0.5 focal reducer, and took a few stills. I normally use the camera and laptop combination at night, and found that it was difficult to get a clear view of the image on the LCD - the strong sunlight washed out most of the contrast. This is a section of what was probably the best.

I found that by tilting the laptop's display slightly I could see a little more detail in the disc, but nothing spectacular. I need to spend more time imaging, to find the optimum SS60 tuning position and camera settings. A day without clouds and frequent showers would be useful 🌧️.

Geoff

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Geoff Lister
typo

[paulastro]

I'll look forward to hearing how you get on in better sky conditions Geoff, thanks for posting.

[petevasey]

Hi, Geoff,I would suggest that your image is a little out of focus.  There is definitely a hint of granulation, and that's about all you're going to see at the moment - the Sun is asleep 😌  A quick play in Photoshop helped a bit.  Anyway, I took an image a few days ago with my Solarview50.  I'd bought a GPCAM3 128M at Kelling Heath Star Party to replace the GPCAM2 I previously used - the chip wasn't quite big enough.  The small pixels on the new camera (2.4 um) give resolution well below the Dawes limit of my scope, so no need for Barlowing etc., and no sign of Newton's rings.  Here is the image I got - as you can see apart from a slightly lighter patch there's nothing happening worthy of attention. 

Incidentally here are a couple of links I use to check for activity before firing up my kit.  Kanzelhohe Observatory is always my first port of call.  Then a page covering more sites, although for some of them the quality isn't always that good.

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by petevasey
Added text

[Geoff Lister]

Hello Peter, thank you for the feedback. I found it difficult to get a sharp focus, with the poor LCD contrast and the atmospheric distortion adding ripples to the edge of the disk - Jupiter is so much easier, particularly with its convenient Galilean moons. I have added your suggested sites to my browser "favourites".

There was a small hole in the clouds, so I tried the SS60 on my Virtuoso mount. The SS60 fits neatly in place of the 90mm Mak. With the mount on the patio table, the EP was at a convenient height for seated viewing. With the Virtuoso mount and alternative SS60/90 Mak., this makes a very handy grab-and-go battery/mains combination (the Virtuoso mount only takes about 40 to 80mA when tracking).

Needless to say, as soon as I had the combination tracking the sun, the big black clouds arrived, and I had just enough time to take this photo before the deluge.

Geoff

Edited October 9, 2019 by Geoff Lister
corrected current demand