Upgrade to a new mount, any suggestions?

[Amajed]

Hi, since my first two images of M31 and M42 I'm so into AP, I'm looking to upgrade to a new mount. I'll write up my current equipment so it makes it easier for you to suggest a new mount for me.

 

Equipments

Mount: Orion Sirius EQ-G (I think it's equivalent to Sky-Watcher HEQ5)

Telescope: Orion ED80 80mm f/7.5 Apochromatic Refractor Telescope + Televue 0.8x Reducer/Flattener

Telescope: Celestron C9 1/4-A XLT 9.25" f/10 Schmidt-Cassegrain Telescope (OTA Only, CG-5 Dovetail) 

GuideScope: ZWO Mini Guide Scope + ZWO ASI224MC (for guiding)

Camera: Sony A7R III

And a Laptop

 

I really don't know what should I get, I know that the 9.25 is too heavy for my current mount. so it's a must switch for me to a higher payload mound, I searched  a lot, but did not reach to a one good mount.

 

Finally, the price, I think I can go up to 2000$, I might push it a couple of hundred dollars. nothing more. what do you think?
================

I think I need to add that I do need to travel from home to a dark place and spent the night there, so it's always a travel setup, not saying that it should be light, I can deal with heavy-ish setups, it's just that the setup must be portable.

also is my guiding scope good enough for the 9.25? or do I need a better scope for that?

[MartinB]

I think an EQ6 ticks your boxes.

[Demonperformer]

Start by getting a copy of  Making Every Photon Count from FLO. That will enable you to put your purchases in context.

[Ronclarke]

Defo NEQ6

[souls33k3r]

Your natural progression will be a NEQ6 or EQ6-R as others have suggested ... you won't be dissappointed with that decision. 

Hope this helps.

[Amajed]

2 hours ago, MartinB said:

I think an EQ6 ticks your boxes.

I I was thinking that Sky-Watcher EQ6-R is good, but will 44LB payload do the trick? the 9.25 is 20lb I think the finder plus the camera will be around 7lb? so is 27lb to 30lb be a good thing for a 44lb payload mount?

thanks

2 hours ago, Demonperformer said:

Start by getting a copy of  Making Every Photon Count from FLO. That will enable you to put your purchases in context.

I did read that, like 5 years ago I think, wonderful book, my problem is with what people think about each brand, I know I need something around 45 to 55lb payload, I just can't decide which one.

2 hours ago, Ronclarke said:

Defo NEQ6

I was thinking that Sky-Watcher EQ6-R is good, but will 44LB payload do the trick? the 9.25 is 20lb I think the finder plus the camera will be around 7lb? so is 27lb to 30lb be a good thing for a 44lb payload mount?

thanks

1 hour ago, souls33k3r said:

Your natural progression will be a NEQ6 or EQ6-R as others have suggested ... you won't be dissappointed with that decision. 

Hope this helps.

I was thinking that Sky-Watcher EQ6-R is good, but will 44LB payload do the trick? the 9.25 is 20lb I think the finder plus the camera will be around 7lb? so is 27lb to 30lb be a good thing for a 44lb payload mount?

thanks

[souls33k3r]

2 minutes ago, Amajed said:

I was thinking that Sky-Watcher EQ6-R is good, but will 44LB payload do the trick? the 9.25 is 20lb I think the finder plus the camera will be around 7lb? so is 27lb to 30lb be a good thing for a 44lb payload mount?

thanks

Ideally you'd want to be somewhere around half of the payload for imaging but there's no rule in the book that says that it can't work. Plus within your budget, that's the best mount you can get  

[Amajed]

1 minute ago, souls33k3r said:

Ideally you'd want to be somewhere around half of the payload for imaging but there's no rule in the book that says that it can't work. Plus within your budget, that's the best mount you can get  

Is Celestron CGX an option? it's 2300$ an extra 300$ over my budget, but if it's worth it I can save up and get it.. is it worth it?

I'm not planning on getting a heaver telescope, or a dual telescope setup, so is the CGX worth it or I should stick to EQ6-R ?

 

Thanks

[souls33k3r]

CGX is a good mount as well but since i have the NEQ6, i can only suggest you on it's quality which is really good and the EQ6-R is even better in my personal opinion. Plus you'll have the ability on EQ6's to hypertune them yourself if you wish. 

[Amajed]

2 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

CGX is a good mount as well but since i have the NEQ6, i can only suggest you on it's quality which is really good and the EQ6-R is even better in my personal opinion. Plus you'll have the ability on EQ6's to hypertune them yourself if you wish. 

I guess I'll go with EQ6-R

the extra cash could be a better guiding scope, or OAG. is OAG better option here for the SCT 9.25?

[souls33k3r]

Just now, Amajed said:

I guess I'll go with EQ6-R

the extra cash could be a better guiding scope, or OAG. is OAG better option here for the SCT 9.25?

With the longer focal length, OAG is the way forward. There's a bit more tinkering required with OAG but it's well worth the effort you put in

[Amajed]

3 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

With the longer focal length, OAG is the way forward. There's a bit more tinkering required with OAG but it's well worth the effort you put in

What kind of tinkering are we talking about?

does this OAG needs tinkering?:

https://www.celestron.com/products/off-axis-guider

[souls33k3r]

2 minutes ago, Amajed said:

What kind of tinkering are we talking about?

does this OAG needs tinkering?:

https://www.celestron.com/products/off-axis-guider

Not sure what camera you have in which case this OAG might not work so you might want to look in to a low profile OAG like the offering from TS or Orion which are about 9mm - 11mm 

what i mean with tinkering is the ability to get both guide camera and your imaging camera in focus. That's your first hurdle and then the ability to find a guide star is your second hurdle. But if you have a sensitive guide camera (QHY5L-ii mono or Lodestar X2 as an example) , you should be alright.

Hope this helps.

[Amajed]

2 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

Not sure what camera you have in which case this OAG might not work so you might want to look in to a low profile OAG like the offering from TS or Orion which are about 9mm - 11mm 

what i mean with tinkering is the ability to get both guide camera and your imaging camera in focus. That's your first hurdle and then the ability to find a guide star is your second hurdle. But if you have a sensitive guide camera (QHY5L-ii mono or Lodestar X2 as an example) , you should be alright.

Hope this helps.

Yeah, the focusing, it is a problem I suppose, my camera for guiding is one of the most sensitive cameras in ZWO ASI, or atleast that's what they say.

and my main camera is A7R III, it's a mirrorless camera, not sure if it's a problem or not, but hopefully it isn't, ordering stuff from the internet to my home isn't that easy, and returning is expensive that it's most of the time not worth it.

 

I'll look around before I finally decide on the OAG, right now the EQ6-R is the way to go, thanks to you the all who helped me out.

 

 

Anas.

[souls33k3r]

 

2 minutes ago, Amajed said:

Yeah, the focusing, it is a problem I suppose, my camera for guiding is one of the most sensitive cameras in ZWO ASI, or atleast that's what they say.

and my main camera is A7R III, it's a mirrorless camera, not sure if it's a problem or not, but hopefully it isn't, ordering stuff from the internet to my home isn't that easy, and returning is expensive that it's most of the time not worth it.

 

I'll look around before I finally decide on the OAG, right now the EQ6-R is the way to go, thanks to you the all who helped me out.

 

 

Anas.

JazakAllah khair Anas. Don't you worry, insha'Allah it'll be all good. Just make sure you research before you hit the buy button

[alexbb]

Not sure about the price, but check out the CEM60 too.

[Demonperformer]

9 hours ago, souls33k3r said:

JazakAllah khair Anas. Don't you worry, insha'Allah

gentle reminder that all posts should be in english

[ollypenrice]

OK, my view is that, for the C9.25, it can't be done. We don't just have to worry about weight but about tracking accuracy which is proportional to the image scale in arcseconds per pixel. To do DS imaging reliably with this scope, and to produce results in which the captured resolution approaches the theoretical resolution, you'd need a Mesu 200 mount. (In my book this is the best mount in its class and the cheapest. I run two and host three others. To clear, I've no commercial connections of any kind.)

The mounts within your budget are of variable quality in terms of tracking accuracy (PE and Backlash) so it's hard to give chapter and verse on what guiding accuracy your version might deliver. Whatever the RMS in arcseconds the mount delivers needs to be about half the image scale in arcseconds per pixel. On excellent nights our EQ sixes can run at just below an arcsecond but this is a best value and they're not entirely consistent. Now I think this is very good for the price, but will it support DS imaging with a C9.25? I'd be surprised if it would. It would be good to hear what kind of RMS values others find with their EQ sixes. Ours are not in nightly use any longer so my data is patchy.

Olly

[Amajed]

27 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

OK, my view is that, for the C9.25, it can't be done. We don't just have to worry about weight but about tracking accuracy which is proportional to the image scale in arcseconds per pixel. To do DS imaging reliably with this scope, and to produce results in which the captured resolution approaches the theoretical resolution, you'd need a Mesu 200 mount. (In my book this is the best mount in its class and the cheapest. I run two and host three others. To clear, I've no commercial connections of any kind.)

The mounts within your budget are of variable quality in terms of tracking accuracy (PE and Backlash) so it's hard to give chapter and verse on what guiding accuracy your version might deliver. Whatever the RMS in arcseconds the mount delivers needs to be about half the image scale in arcseconds per pixel. On excellent nights our EQ sixes can run at just below an arcsecond but this is a best value and they're not entirely consistent. Now I think this is very good for the price, but will it support DS imaging with a C9.25? I'd be surprised if it would. It would be good to hear what kind of RMS values others find with their EQ sixes. Ours are not in nightly use any longer so my data is patchy.

Olly

Thanks Olly, funny thing is I came to the same conclusion, and I've decided to stay away from C9.25 imaging, and keep it for observing only without an auto guider.

I'll get the mount, it's a good mount for everything I need, so that I'll go for it, but imaging with C9.25 for the meantime is out of the question.

 

Thanks

[DaveS]

OK, I'll be controversial here and suggest that your money would be better spent on a cooled mono camera and filters.

As Olly said, a 9.25" SCT will need a mount in a much higher price bracket, while your current set-up is as near ideal as it can get.

Do you use your C9 at all? If not sell it to help fund the camera (Though $2k will go a long way towards a new camera). Something like a ZWO ASI1600, wheel and filters may even come in under $2k.

The biggest boost to my imaging after guiding (Which you already have covered) was when I ditched my DSLR for a Trius 694 / SX wheel and NB filters.

[MartinB]

You are oversampled wit a C9.25 anyway so it's not just the mount which is the limiting factor.  A decent focal reducer would bring you down to a more realistic focal length and off axis guiding will will sort issues such as mirror flop.  I had sub arc second guiding with your EQ6 and Tec Olly, same with my CGEM.

[ollypenrice]

On 19/10/2018 at 22:38, MartinB said:

You are oversampled wit a C9.25 anyway so it's not just the mount which is the limiting factor.  A decent focal reducer would bring you down to a more realistic focal length and off axis guiding will will sort issues such as mirror flop.  I had sub arc second guiding with your EQ6 and Tec Olly, same with my CGEM.

It's certainly true that the seeing often over-rides the best efforts of the mount in high resolution imaging. I'm glad our EQ6 delivered the goods for you! It didn't do quite so well the week before last but there are any number of variables in a temporary setup. Maybe I err too much on the side of caution regarding tracking. It's just so exasperating when it won't deliver.

On 19/10/2018 at 11:57, DaveS said:

OK, I'll be controversial here and suggest that your money would be better spent on a cooled mono camera and filters.

As Olly said, a 9.25" SCT will need a mount in a much higher price bracket, while your current set-up is as near ideal as it can get.

Do you use your C9 at all? If not sell it to help fund the camera (Though $2k will go a long way towards a new camera). Something like a ZWO ASI1600, wheel and filters may even come in under $2k.

The biggest boost to my imaging after guiding (Which you already have covered) was when I ditched my DSLR for a Trius 694 / SX wheel and NB filters.

If the OP isn't going to image with the C9.25 you have a good point here. I'm still not ready to jump ship from CCD to CMOS, though.

Olly