Trying my best

[stepping beyond]

WOWZA, That's more of what I was trying to get but, I'm learning the tools and often  forget what I'm doing. Awesome skills you have acquired , I did you use Maximdl  v5 and I'm starting to use more of the tools , I do forget the steps I have to take . It's been a couple of years since I did any processing in it. This is my next adventure if only I could get my guidecam to stay focused.

[stepping beyond]

I'm giddy over what you were able to do with the data , I'm trying to find a workflow that'll work for this data . Thank you William "KUDOS" on your processing skills, I need some of what you have to rub off on me . You fellas across the pond on SGL are very kind for helping this disabled amateur astronomer .

[Oddsocks]

3 hours ago, stepping beyond said:

I'm trying to find a workflow that'll work for this data

Actually Ron, your first image, the blue one, is ok in a lot of respects, the blending of the short-exposure core-luminance image and longer exposure nebula-luminance image is very good, only the blending method used has tended to give the stars a double core. The main problem was just the handling of the colour data.

I don't know how to advise you on that subject as I have never tried to construct a colour image from separate stacks of filtered images in Photoshop but perhaps it might just be as simple as forgetting to convert your source RGB images to greyscale (monochrome) before adding them as separate colour channels for the composite RGB layer, this is something that I have to do in PixInsight or Maxim for example where the source data is in jpg tiff or png format.

The other thing I noticed is the satellite or aircraft trails and random hot pixels in the individual stacks so maybe you used an averaging method of combination where a sigma reject method would be better so that outlier artefacts in individual subs in each stack don't make it into the final combined image.

My processing skills are not that good in reality it's just that I had the benefit of a thirty five year career in medical imaging and so understand some of the theory behind image processing. Compared to the astro images that Olly Penrice and Sara Wager produce I'm only an infant!

I do find good source books invaluable. Being of a certain age I find Youtube videos etc very helpful but impossible to remember afterwards unless I watch them a dozen times where a well written text will stay with me forever. Videos are good at showing a process but poor at explaining it and even worse helping to diagnose when things go wrong...

Books written, joint authored or edited by Robert Gendler, Lessons from the Masters, for example, which uses and describes quite a few Photoshop processes, or Warren A. Keller, Inside PixInsight, are a great source of information. An exception to my dislike of video generally as a teaching method were the Warren A Keller DVD's, though expensive new they do come up second hand on Amazon and eBay from time to time. For a real in-depth explanation of the theory and maths behind imaging then look no further than The Handbook of Astronomical Image Processing by Richard Berry and James Burnell. I read that it is currently being rewritten at reduced cost without the original software disk, AIP4WIN, that used to be distributed with the book and made it rather expensive. AIP4WIN is rather out of date now and better software packages are available at much lower cost so the new revised book, at a lower price point, should find a receptive market, again the original book does come up on the second hand markets from time to time.

Lastly, when you don't have enough raw data of your own to work on there is a vast source of raw data from the professional observatories, Hubble, NASA, ESA etc, that can be downloaded for free and after a few months of bad weather when I have no data of my own I often grab something from those sources to keep "In Practice".

William.

[stepping beyond]

Thank you William , I'm reading through my MICA and getting more familiar with it  after not using it for quite sometime. I've the Willmann-Bell catalog 44 and AIP4WIN 2.4 with handbook is $89 . I think it'll be on my list to take me to that next level , I've got the determination to do it . I just need to apply myself  , learning the correct way would also be a plus.

[stepping beyond]

William , If I go for the Badder diamond , It will go on my 8 in Newtonian astrograph and  I  would be able to add a motor focus to it right ?  That is one solid focuser with all the bells and whistles , thanks for the heads up . 

[stepping beyond]

Olly , I'm interested in the Diamond focuser . I would like to know if it's not going to be too heavy for my newt, and can I hook a motor focus too it? Please explain?

[Oddsocks]

Hi Ron.

I have never seen one though I read that they are well regarded.

There are two Baader motor focus options for the Steeldrive, one with a hand control box add-on to allow you to focus with or without a PC connection and the other is PC only.

The dedicated Steeldrive motor focus just bolts to the focuser body and a belt connects the motor focus to one of the focus knobs. You can see a picture of how it attaches if you scroll down to the recommended accessories section in this link (click on the language flag at the top of the page to toggle between German and English).

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p8215_Baader-2--Diamond-Steeltrack-Newtonian-Focuser.html

Weight-wise, attaching to a newt should not be a problem, you would just need to rebalance the telescope slightly by sliding it in the rings, or adding a balance weight if the amount of movement in the rings is not sufficient. The lift capacity is 13lbs which is more than enough for most camera and filter wheel combinations.

If your astrograph is very fast and the critical focus zone correspondingly small then flexing of the wall of the OTA due to the weight of the focuser, FW, CC, camera etc hanging off the side can cause tilt in the optical path. With large camera sensors it shows up as coma like, or, out-of-focus stars at the edge of the image that move around the frame as the weight shifts about when the orientation of the OTA changes during the night. This can be countered by fitting a longer dovetail rail and a third tube ring so that there is a ring either side of the focuser and adding a reinforcement plate to the inside of the OTA where the focuser attaches to the tube, but that should only be necessary if you see a problem with your set up, it's not going to be a requirement in the majority of cases.

The most common issue people run into with changing focusers on newts (and refractors) is whether the profile height and focus range of the new focuser will allow the camera to reach focus so you need to know how far out from the body of the OTA the current focus point is and then look at the focuser specifications to see if there is enough range to reach focus. Adding spacers if easy if the profile height and range is too short but if the profile height is too long you may not be able to wind the focuser in far enough towards the OTA and in that case surgery on the OTA is needed to push the mirror further up the tube and move the focus point further out.

Needs careful measurement before pushing the buy button.

There are many after market motor focuser add-ons that are less expensive than the Baader dedicated one, they all work the same way, just a little stepper motor (usually) with a belt that either slips over one of the focuser knobs, or replaces one of the focuser knobs with a little pulley. You don't need much in the way of tools to fit them, a screwdriver and set of Allen keys. Then it is *just* a matter of connecting power and USB connections for the focus controller and loading the hardware drivers.

William.

 

[stepping beyond]

William , you just scared the begeesus out of me . I'm not wanting to go into all that but, if it'll get rid of my headache of always having to refocus everytime it moves and when it changes  filters it would certainly be worth it. My backfocus is 17.5 mm for the asi174MM , 20mm for the EFW, 15MM FOR T2-25a adapter and 1mm sfc m42-001 spacer @ 53.5mm backfocus making my Paracorr lens assembly stick out about halfway from the end of the focuser with drawing out 1 in. approx. to tune it in. Does that make any sense to you? I tried my best to explain it  , I'm imaging with an Orion f3.9 astrograph fast but, not too fast. I have a low profile 11:1 crayford style dual speed focuser with {1} tension knob and it didn't slip with my heavier 2" 9 and 16mm ep . When I added my Paracorr and a light 32mm celestron omni with the focuser on top it started it's slipping and when I put the tube down towards the counterbalance bar and it started slipping like crazy even after tightening the tension screw it would hold for a lil' while. I talked with Astrogena out of California and gave them the distances of focus with my image train in which is 88.9mm and I'm waiting to here back from them on the Diamond fitting without  modification with the tube and mirror. Crossing those fingers.

[Oddsocks]

While you are waiting to hear back from Astrogena can you recall if when the focuser slips do the focus knobs turn by themselves?

Some of the Crayford focusers on those Synta astrographs (Orion, Skywatcher etc) had two separate tension adjustments. The thumb screw is really a locking device that bears directly on the focuser tube, by itself this is not strong enough to prevent slippage and it needs to work in conjunction with the tension of the focus spindle pressing against the flat bed of the focus tube and togther with the intertia of the dual speed reduction gear they hold the focus tube in position.

If the focus knobs don’t turn when the focuser slips it means that the spindle is not pressing tightly enough against the flat bed of the focuser tube.

That can happen if there is any grease on the flat bed or the spindle, even just a smear of finger or face grease will allow slippage. Besides the grease problem on some of the Synta focusers there were a couple of grub screws either side of the spindle that you could adjust to increase the pressure between spindle and flat bed and these were not always adjusted optimally during factory assembly.

If this is happening with your focuser first clean the flat bed with a solvent degreaser, 100% alcohol swabs from a pharmacy are ideal, otherwise, methanol or similar, even laundry oil stain remover works. Rack the focuser in and out several times while applying the degreaser to the flat bed so that any trace of grease is removed and wipe dry.

If your focuser has the two tension adjuster grub screws at either end of the spindle (these would be in the body casting next to and in line with the focus knobs) try tightening both a fraction of a turn to increase the pressure that the spindle bears against the flat bed.

That should improve the holding power of the focuser but if still not enough there is one work-around trick that helps provided you image on one side of the meridian, if you carry out a flip you have to reposition the tube in the rings and rejig but it works like this:

Align the telescope approx on the target and loosen the tube rings, rotate the OTA in the rings so that the focuser points to the ground, or at least in a downwards direction, tie a loop of rubber bungee cord around the back of the camera and around the OTA, tighten the elastic cord so that it pulls the camera towards the OTA with enough force to equal approx half the weight of the camera, CC FW etc. As long as the OTA stays on that side of the meridian the focuser only has to hold half the weight of the attached imaging equipment, the elastic takes the rest of the load. After a meridian flip the camera will end up on top of the OTA pointing towards the sky so remove the elastic cord loop before flipping, after flipping rotate the OTA again so the focuser points ground-ward and slip the elastic loop back around the camera and OTA. It’s an inelegant solution but it does work as a temporary fix until you upgrade the focuser.

William.

[stepping beyond]

William years ago when it 1st started slipping with the weight of the Paracorrt2 and 1 1/4 in. ep , Orion told me that there's only {1} tension grub screw out of the {2} and it's the furthest away from the focuser . It did hold but, after 5 minutes it was back to slipping . I'm hesitant to take apart the focuser and do I have to take it off the tube to do what your suggesting , I've got 91% isopropyl alcohol that should work  " It doesn't leave any residue on my eps or mirrors." with a measure of distilled water "It's a cocktail" for my mirrors and eyepieces.

[Oddsocks]

10 minutes ago, stepping beyond said:

I'm hesitant to take apart the focuser and do I have to take it off the tube to do what your suggesting

No need to take the focuser apart, turn the OTA tube so the focuser is horizontal (no weight pulling up or down) then rack the focuser tube all the way out and wipe down the flat bed with the isopropyl. While it is still wet rack the tube in and out a few times to distribute the alcohol over the Crayford spindle then rack the tube in and out several times while drying the bed with lint-free cloth or paper towel. Leave the tube all the way out for half an hour or so for any remaining alcohol to evaporate.

There are so many different configurations of Crayford that Synta have used over the years, some with spindle pressure adjustment grub screws accessible from outside the focuser, some with none and some that are only accessible when the spindle clamp is removed. If you get a chance take a close-up photo of the bottom of the Crayford and post it back here, maybe I can point out the adjustment screws if they are there, or someone who has your model of focuser might recognise it and be able to advise.

I'm with Olly and his dislike of Crayfords for imaging with heavy cameras and I bought a single FLI Atlas focuser shared between my collection of telescopes with a different adaptor to mount the Atlas on each OTA. Much prefer a well made rack-and-pinnion focuser for imaging and it is good to see many manufacturers are now fitting them as standard.

William.

[stepping beyond]

Well , I just went to my "Cave" , snapped a couple pictures of the Orion low profile 11:1 dual speed focuser in it's marked position and released the lock thumbscrew and the tube just fell some . I decided to just play with it , the fine focus knob only moved a lil' bit as I pushed and pulled the focuser tube something isn't making contact . I've also have black marks on the tube from the wheels. Do you think that there's grease on the wheels? Can you see the dark grease on the flat , not the permanent marks. They go along the sides and middle.

[Oddsocks]

Yep, the black marks along the edges are typical wear for the Synta focuser where either the flat bed on the focuser tube has not been machined perfectly 'flat', leaving it a little bit concave, or the pinnion spindle tension is set too low allowing the focuser tube to rotate under load, this results in the pinnion spindle only contacting the edges of the flat bed, increasing the wear rate and allowing the focuser tube to slip under load.

If the flat bed was machined as flat as it should be and the pinnion tension correct then the spindle would contact the bed over the full width and it would be much stronger, slip resistant and less liable to wear.

The black is not grease, it is powdered aluminium that has been worn away from the anodised layer on the surface of the focuser tube.

Directly behind the thumb screw should be the tension adjustment grub screw for the spindle roller, at least I think it will be there, it is not easy to see from the photograph, I have arrowed where it should be found in your original photo.

If there is a grub screw where indicated, clean up the flat bed with the alcohol and when it is dry release the thumb lock and turn the grub screw clockwise 1/8 of a turn then try to pull-push the tube, the focuser knobs should turn as you pull-push if the pinion roller tension is correct, make additional 1/8 turns clockwise until you find that the focuser knobs rotate over the full length of in-out movement as you push and pull. Finally hold the coarse focuser knob and try to push-pull the tube, when the tension is correct the tube should not slip easily. If it turns out the bed is slightly concave it would never be as strong as a well machined Starlight or the Baader Steeltrack for example.

Don't try to force the grub screw if it doesn't feel easy to move as that might mean that the limit of adjustment is already reached and you don't want to risk overdoing the tension adjustment and damaging the little teflon bearing under the grub screw.

As an engineer I would simply take the focuser tube into my workshop and re-grind or mill the flat-bed *flat* if necessary but I know that is not an option for you so unless you have a good local engineer who can help you out I can see you are limited to buying a replacement.

If you want a bit of background info on this well known weakness of the Synta focuser, and how to fix it, take a look at the short (8 minute) video below. The presenter has a strong northern England accent that may be a little hard to understand but the video is really self explanatory, the focuser is basically the same as yours, with the same problem, but it does not have the 10/1 reduction gear that your one has and when the video starts he has a motor focus bracket screwed to the underside of the focuser.

In the video he flattens the concave bed with an oilstone, this is not something I would try. I would suspect it is near impossible to maintain a steady and even downward pressure while abrading the surface and it is likely the surface of the bed would become slightly convex, in addition, leaving the now flat-bed as bare aluminium once the anodised surface is abraded would lead to a much faster wear rate, you would have to keep the flat-bed very clean and continually wipe away the build up of aluminium oxide on the surface. To ensure longevity and carry out the correction work professionally the bed should be milled flat and then re-anodised, but then the costs involved would go half-way towards a really well made focuser in the first place and if it improves an otherwise useless focuser.......

William.

 

 

[John MacDonald]

Hi, I also took your rgb data and combined manually in photoshop cc2015 aligned channels, stretched channels and removed gradient. Did not add luminace. I have only been doiing this 6 months and practice each evening using data from astrobin.com and my own limited data. Sticking with photoshop as there are a lot of tutorials on you tube and rest of the net. Colours look good to me and i would echo other advice saving data as fits files so you get all the data. Over processing is very easy to do and if you use the commercial actions available for photoshop its even easier to do too much but they are worth getting hold of. Less is more like KISS is the motto i use and hope one day to produce one of those shots that make you gasp with my own data. Also anyone laughing at your attempts you don't want advice from. 

[stepping beyond]

• I like how you didn't saturated the red and the color in the stars is better it shows that I shouldn't try and pull all I can with my limited data .  Less is best . Thank you John. 

[stepping beyond]

William , thank you ! That's the grubscrew that I've been tightening ,  I may have Alanna have a go at it with a wet stone and see what she can do with this focuser and if it fixes the slippage problem. That astronomy shed fella has a lot of videos that I've found helpful . I just wish I could find a video with a rgb image gear setup balancing the load ,that would be the icing on the cake . I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything CORRECTLY, 

[Oddsocks]

12 minutes ago, stepping beyond said:

I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything CORRECTLY, 

Ah but theres the rub, how do you define correctly?

The thing I like about astronomy is you are free to experiment and find any one of myriad ways that work well for you.

Unless you are working to obtain science grade data is it worth over-obsessing?

I know there are loads of things I don't do correctly and even more that I just don't understand but as long as what I do makes me happy at this stage of my life what more can I ask  

[stepping beyond]

William , I'm OCD . I obsess on just about everything from the weather ,atmosphere and position in the sky. Trying to get that awesome data collection, I'm always told that I'm over thinking. It's habit and I do need to just CHILL OUT. I checked the focuser yesterday and last night tried it out and come to the conclusion that since the focus shaft turns and there's some play in it . I tried to buy another year with it  but, I'll have to deal with it till December and invest in a upgrade .  I'm really tired of it slipping. Thanks for all your help. Ronnie