SGP - Framing/Rotation Question

[souls33k3r]

Hi All,

Please do bear with me as i ask this very basic/noobish question.

Early steps for me in the great world of SGP so thought i'd ask rather than wonder and assume.

When setting up framing and mosaic wizard, you fetch the object and it's presented to you in a particular frame (landscape or portrait whatever it might be), you draw a box around the required object and to tell it to slew and frame that part.

Now my question is, since i do not have a rotator, what is the zero degree of rotation for my camera? I mean at which angle should be my camera/sensor be in order to have that exact framing?

As far as i can tell, my camera sensor might be in a 45 degree tilt because unfortunately that's the way it threads in every time, i can not move my fw from the current position because i will then have issues balancing the scope in 3 axis. 

Many thanks in advance. 

[swag72]

I would first of all do a sync and solve.... from there your rotation will be automatically populated in the F&M wizard then anything you set from there on in will have the correct rotation when you frame it ??

[PhotoGav]

4 minutes ago, swag72 said:

I would first of all do a sync and solve.... from there your rotation will be automatically populated in the F&M wizard then anything you set from there on in will have the correct rotation when you frame it ??

This is something I discovered the hard way just recently! I will add this to Sara’s sound advice ‘so long as you don’t subsequently move the camera.’. Which is what I did thinking I was improving things... guess what... the mosaic doesn’t match up very well!!

Good luck, the F&M wizard is excellent, so well worth mastering. 

While I’m here, another thing that I eventually discovered in the F&M W is that you can (should, even) use the histogram stretch controls to alter the downloaded image that you draw the box onto so that you can see the object you are trying to frame up more clearly ... another bit of hard learning!

[souls33k3r]

Thank you Sara.

That sounds like what i need to do but please do excuse me if i ask how to go about doing that in SGP?

It's super early days for me in the world of SGP.

My current method of setting up SGP are as below (Please do let me know if i'm doing this all wrong and at which point do i sync and solve)

1) I use frame and focus (choosing Lum filters) to get the best focus i can manually in order to perform plate solving

2) Run Frame and Mosaic wizard and create a sequence

3) Run the sequence which then goes ahead and does the whole SGP thing (Plate solves etc)  

[swag72]

The first thing I do is a sync and solve (It's one of the menus along the top) You literally press 'Solve and Sync' the other option is 'blind solve' - SGP will then plate solve and you will get your exact coordinates as well as the rotation. I have found that plate solve can be quite forgiving with regards to focus and trailing. 

Once I sync and solve then I start a sequence.  Do you not automatically focus? 

So in your position I would sync and solve, create a sequence using the F&M wizard then run the sequence.

[souls33k3r]

2 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

This is something I discovered the hard way just recently! I will add this to Sara’s sound advice ‘so long as you don’t subsequently move the camera.’. Which is what I did thinking I was improving things... guess what... the mosaic doesn’t match up very well!!

Good luck, the F&M wizard is excellent, so well worth mastering. 

While I’m here, another thing that I eventually discovered in the F&M W is that you can (should, even) use the histogram stretch controls to alter the downloaded image that you draw the box onto so that you can see the object you are trying to frame up more clearly ... another bit of hard learning!

Cheers for the very useful tips Gav. When you say "don't move the camera", well that's exactly what i have to do (if i understood you correctly). 

Allow me to explain, my FW and camera go in at a bit of a weird orientation when it goes back in the case. I have marked the positions on the FW and the adapter so it's nice and easy for me to align the lines for the next time use but it will be a minute degree change. I can live with that i guess.

[PhotoGav]

Just now, souls33k3r said:

Cheers for the very useful tips Gav. When you say "don't move the camera", well that's exactly what i have to do (if i understood you correctly). 

Allow me to explain, my FW and camera go in at a bit of a weird orientation when it goes back in the case. I have marked the positions on the FW and the adapter so it's nice and easy for me to align the lines for the next time use but it will be a minute degree change. I can live with that i guess.

Yes, it sounds like you understood correctly. The closer to the same point you can get your camera from session to session, the less waste there will be due to misalignment around the edges of each pane of the mosaic and the easier the whole thing will stitch together. 

It sounds like you are doing the right thing though and once you have a ‘Solve & Sync’ in the routine you’ll be imaging like a good’un!

[souls33k3r]

2 minutes ago, swag72 said:

The first thing I do is a sync and solve (It's one of the menus along the top) You literally press 'Solve and Sync' the other option is 'blind solve' - SGP will then plate solve and you will get your exact coordinates as well as the rotation. I have found that plate solve can be quite forgiving with regards to focus and trailing. 

Once I sync and solve then I start a sequence.  Do you not automatically focus? 

So in your position I would sync and solve, create a sequence using the F&M wizard then run the sequence.

Ok i think i got it. I can sync and solve at basically anything, it doesn't have to point at my intended target but just to get the camera rotation degree off it right? and then create sequence using F&M.

Unfortunately i'm still manually focusing. I went out a few nights ago and my plate solving failed every time (i was quite out of focus) but as soon as i focused or at least got my stars as small as i can (which took less than 10 second), my plate solve worked fine. 

[swag72]

Just now, souls33k3r said:

Ok i think i got it. I can sync and solve at basically anything, it doesn't have to point at my intended target but just to get the camera rotation degree off it right? and then create sequence using F&M.

 

In essence yes...... if it's very far from the mark and where it thinks it should be then if the plate solve fails the blind solve will automatically kick in.

[PhotoGav]

Just now, souls33k3r said:

Ok i think i got it. I can sync and solve at basically anything, it doesn't have to point at my intended target but just to get the camera rotation degree off it right? and then create sequence using F&M.

Unfortunately i'm still manually focusing. I went out a few nights ago and my plate solving failed every time (i was quite out of focus) but as soon as i focused or at least got my stars as small as i can (which took less than 10 second), my plate solve worked fine. 

Exactly. You can even check the rotation result of the Sync & Solve and then decide if you need to alter the rotation a bit to match up more perfectly. A manual rotator!

[souls33k3r]

1 minute ago, swag72 said:

In essence yes...... if it's very far from the mark and where it thinks it should be then if the plate solve fails the blind solve will automatically kick in.

Excellent. Got it ... thank you for your patience

 

2 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

Exactly. You can even check the rotation result of the Sync & Solve and then decide if you need to alter the rotation a bit to match up more perfectly. A manual rotator!

Manual rotator? We have that on our Star 71 don't we? As much as i loved using the rotator on our WO Star 71, that was the pain of my life. My fw was sticking out on one side (because i was trying to get my camera sensor perfectly aligned horizontally and vertically) which made the scope balance super out when it was pointing anything above 40 degree. My scope was moving clockwise. As soon as i brought the FW back to it's motor facing down, my balance was fine. Really head scratching moment there for me. 

If there is any other manual rotator, please do let me know.

[PhotoGav]

25 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

Manual rotator? We have that on our Star 71 don't we? As much as i loved using the rotator on our WO Star 71, that was the pain of my life. My fw was sticking out on one side (because i was trying to get my camera sensor perfectly aligned horizontally and vertically) which made the scope balance super out when it was pointing anything above 40 degree. My scope was moving clockwise. As soon as i brought the FW back to it's motor facing down, my balance was fine. Really head scratching moment there for me. 

If there is any other manual rotator, please do let me know.

Hah, balance, yes, can be awkward sometimes! What I meant by Manual Rotator was simply that you are doing the rotation changes manually yourself - nothing fancier than that! I'm just suggesting that when you have your sequence set up and then you come to return to it on a subsequent night, you said that you have to rotate the camera to get it all to fit back in the case and then rotate it back to the mark ready for the night's imaging. Well, the Sync & Solve rotation result will tell you exactly where it is, so you can rotate the camera manually and do another Sync & Solve until you are pretty much bang on the rotation value. Perfect images will surely result!

[souls33k3r]

6 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

Hah, balance, yes, can be awkward sometimes! What I meant by Manual Rotator was simply that you are doing the rotation changes manually yourself - nothing fancier than that! I'm just suggesting that when you have your sequence set up and then you come to return to it on a subsequent night, you said that you have to rotate the camera to get it all to fit back in the case and then rotate it back to the mark ready for the night's imaging. Well, the Sync & Solve rotation result will tell you exactly where it is, so you can rotate the camera manually and do another Sync & Solve until you are pretty much bang on the rotation value. Perfect images will surely result!

Why has none of my idiot friends ever told me of this mythical Sync & Solve yet ... a kick on the bum is required and i need new mates!

[PhotoGav]

You have all of SGL as your mates - though I for one am still an idiot, most of the time!!!

[Aidan]

Some great info there on F&M in SGP.. Its something i am just getting around to.    I've also encounted the rotation problem as mentioned.   I've got a TS 360 degree rotator - its ok and holds things ok.  But, i've opted for one of these:

Baader Heavy Duty T-2 Quick Changer
Baader TCR Hardened Steel T-2 ChangeRing

Not available on FLO, but if you google them you'll find a number of suppliers.   A bit pricy (£85) and you need to take the 15mm depth into consideration.  I plan on putting it between the camera and my FW - thus being able to rotate the camera as required, but keeping the FW in the down position to maintain balance.

Rgds
Aidan