Alternative to Camfi for Wireless DSLR\CCD's

[stash_old]

Hi , I have been playing with RPI3 and Gphoto2 o create a wireless control of ,primarily, my Canon DSLR which I use with Astrotoaster for VA.  My main aim if to create less wires and maybe use it is the field at our dark site in Lincolnshire.

Here is my findings:-

1. Hardware  Using RPi 3 8GB SD  32GB USB stick external powered USB2 hub

2. Software Gphoto2 to control he DSLR (my Canon 100d) over Wireless TCP/IP(Internet),Vncviewer/Vncserver

3. Operating systems - Latest Raspian OS using Berryboot

4. Connecion to RPI3 is Wireless using VNCVIEWER  from my Windows lapop/tablet- this is like RDP for Windows (runs on windows xp-10) - this allowed me run the RPI3 Desktop to run Gphoto2 (didn't have too can be done via SSH) via the command line.

Well it took a lot of digging and gathering of Info see below but in the end I was able to make the Canon fire off  processing from 1/1000 to 60secs (later using BULB) and to download images from the Canon's Memory(RAM) to the RPI3 and then transfer the images to my Laptop using file transfer built into Vncviewer(havent bothered with Windows SMB/Cifs yet).

Pro's 

a.  I can get the Canon to fire of captures wirelessly and download images to the RPI3 by Terminal command line

b. I can transfer the files from RPI3 to Windows using vnciewer - but as I said I may try to use SMB/Cifs to pick up windows shares.

Con's

a. The actual command line for using Gphoto2 is slow in that you have to wait for X secs after the trigger release(done by the Command) before the file is downloaded. I say X secs because I have found that the longer exposures times or bigger the image file size (say CR2 format) the command has to be told to "wait" X secs else if the command ends you loose the image (or it remains on the Camera) - Maybe be a work around but I have sent the info to the guys that support Gphoto2 yet. The lagest image I have downloaded from camera to RPI3 is 18MB which took 80secs (note I found using the wired connection slowed this down as RPI3 shares the USB ports with the Ethernet BUS)

b. As Canon camera's(not all) are recognised as "Mass Storage devices" the RPI3/Raspbian insists on loading and mounting he Canon file system which causes the Gphoto2 to complain it cant access he USB port. There is a simple work around (once you find the problem and Google it) which involves either deleting(not recommended) or renaming the GVFS service - the latter being the culprit to hogging the USB port - so halve a CON I suppose

c. You need a 3a 5v power supply for the RPI - an exra wire

 

Now I know INDI project uses RPI (Stellarmate) to run / control Telescopes (mount) ,both Guiding and imaging camera's with some success but it takes a lot of effort just to get Gphoto2 to work so getting Indi to work -Ouch ( I know they provide/sell the "ready" made images).

I also tried Ubuntu 16.04 but ran into many issues which surprised me as its used for Indi project and others - so maybe it was me/version of he software.

As a concept test it worked but should I replace my APT(USB cable) - not sure - initial thought is No. It is cheaper than Camfi and is more flexible as there is more "local" support 

Links

http://www.indilib.org/support/tutorials.html?start=11

https://www.stellarmate.com/support/tutorials.html

How to remove GVFS https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=96925&start=25

http://gphoto-software.10949.n7.nabble.com/canon-60d-long-exposure-gt-30s-is-it-possible-td15071.html

 

 

 

[shirva]

thanks for the info,, bit of reading for the weekend

[shirva]

Wow,, some reading involved,,lol but I did go through the full concept of camera,mount, focus control and it looks a good set up for a remote observatory,, I hadn't heard of any of this,, thanks for the links,,

The concept is far more set up for Astronomy than CAMFI, the CAMFI unit is just over £100 and dead simple to use and more suitable for photography and astrophotography  and works best in conjunction with the az gti as complete standalone wireless set up

If I ever get an observatory this looks a great way to link all equipment,, but is it better or easier than using two linked computers,, I don't know,,

But to run a DSLR camera it's another option.

Cheers for the info stash ?

[stash_old]

A little off track but I have now moved my viewing/control to the lounge (or other TV) - found MS RDP for Android works well on smart TV's (or with smart box) so I am nearer the person who makes the tea LOL.

40inch Astro viewing better than Sky At Night !!

[stash_old]

Update - I have finally got Indi to control my DSLR wirelessly and take long exposures (well 30secs with my testing todate) So Raspberry Pi 3 connects to the  DSLR while an old (ex vista) laptop runs  KSTARS/Indi which in turn connects wirelessly to the PI. I can download images to the PI and/or Laptop (or both) - it wont win any speed contests but it works. When I say I got it working I mean that the guys at INDI.org/GPhoto2 have sorted the long exposures problem with the Canon. Next I am going to try my Asi 120mm instead of the DSLR. I note Gina (and others) has been using CCD's with Indi with some success.

The preview screen also works as this is just an image downloaded but you can do live video with the DSLR / Indi.

As its new to me its a bit of a fiddle but as with all things Astro once you get past the steep learning curse(curve!) it does become easier.

I still believe for an "all in one" in the field solution (so thats Mount control,Camera control,Focus control etc) this offers a very good and relatively cheap set up - compared to an I5 Micro PC  - Sub £100(PI/Indi as opposed to > £400 I5 Micro PC and a lot cheaper than the "Eagle". Plus you do sacrifice speed in Image transfer in the Indi /PI method but it is better,IMHO, than Camfi etc as its been done for Astronomy and its infinitely more flexible/Open.

Will update this as things progress - now when can I get wireless power transfer working LOL!

[stash_old]

Well that went well -NOT - changed something and now it doesn't wont to take any images - INDI is too verbose too many parameters. Plus I found that Ubuntu Mate on an old laptop causes over heating and auto shutdown.

Did find something else you can use CDC(Skycharts) from Windows(any 32 or 64) using the Indi connection and its faster than Kstars on a Laptop. There is also CCDciel which gives access to Indi camera's - if I can get Indi Canon DSLR to work again. 

[stash_old]

In Parallel to my Indi testing I went back to some software that also "nearly worked" about a year ago - Virtually Here (USB over IP).

Well knock me down with a feather the guy Michael has made some vast improvements - I can now connect my Canon DSLR 100d to my Windows 10 tablet from a Raspberry pi (old 512mb version) and use APT or BYEOS and both work - even "Live View". All the testing was in doors but I tried exposures up to 240secs and they all worked no problems so far.

The trade off - speed - commands are fast as normal but downloading in slower but acceptable to me.

Next step is to try the same using a Raspberry Pi Zero (Wireless) which the guy says will work - its a Model B anyway .

Could it be I finally get rid of that USB cable (well one of them) - I will let you know.

Unfortunately I doubt that fast video camera's would work with the poor old little PI.

[stash_old]

Well RPI Zero W worked and i thought downloading faster than the Model B.  Have tried this live outside for about 4hrs in total and worked flawlessly (famous last words). As a bonus I hooked it up to an old SWAZ Goto mount which I also connected to the Zero and then SW Synscan App (windows) which also comes with an Ascom driver so now the Zero controls the mount and the DSLR wireless. I have used both APT and BYEOS and both work and are also able to use the Ascom Syncscan Mobile driver to control he mount. So running involves APT or  BYEOS ,CDC and SynScan Pro App works a treat - even "Live Viewing" (3-4 FPS). Although the Zero works great I think I will use a RPI 3 so I dont have to use an external powered hub (even less cables - tried it without power to Usb Hub everything worked as normally).

So finally would I say its worth it (about £60) for a PI thats allows Wireless Mount control AND wireless DSLR control - without doubt especially for a grab and go. 

Next to hook up my remote Arduino Focuser to the same PI 

[shirva]

Nice one mate, glad it's working out fine for you.

I Have the skywatcher WiFi adapter on order from Flo.

Been very impressed with the wifi app controlling the az gti and bit the bullet and bought the adapter, 

Will use it between the,,, allview,,,, eq3 pro and heq5 pro,,, when I get some decent weather and health,, cold coming and going for last couple of weeks and put my back out.

[stash_old]

29 minutes ago, shirva said:

Nice one mate, glad it's working out fine for you.

I Have the skywatcher WiFi adapter on order from Flo.

Been very impressed with the wifi app controlling the az gti and bit the bullet and bought the adapter, 

Will use it between the,,, allview,,,, eq3 pro and heq5 pro,,, when I get some decent weather and health,, cold coming and going for last couple of weeks and put my back out.

Thanks its spot on.

Yep - clear skies not the Clear but poor seeing ones of late.

Hope your ill's improve - my advice keep drinking the "hot toddy's" mixed with ginger - doesn't do anything for bad backs but hell it is nearly Xmas.

[noah4x4]

Raspberry Pi with its limited 802.11n wireless might be a bit slow with more data hungry cameras like the Atik Horizon or ZWO AS1600. 

An Easy EAA + AP route that will work even with these greedy beasts...total wireless control from inside the warmth of my office...works great with my Nikon 24 megapixel DSLR too.

I put laptop A near the scope connected to the camera by USB3  cable. This laptop does all the heavy data crunching. I propose to replace this soon by a NUC mini computer or Intel compute stick.  Note that I will avoid Atom processor versions (again possibly too slow). Am currently  working out the best power solutions for remote locations.

I then control scope alignment, GoTo and fine adjustment by Celestron WiFi to SkySafari on an Android tablet. This mobility is useful, because you can walk around with this controller whether inside or out (as a precaution if (say) getting close to slew limits or worried about back end clearance).

I will shortly be controlling Focuser by Starlight MKIT20-Wl wireless unit (on order). For now I simply focus locally and set at infinity, then tweak in software (for DSLR I use Digicamcintrol.com.).  

I then control laptop A from laptop B using (free) TeamViewer. The laptops are connected wirelessly via my  (fastest) 802.11ac BT Home Hub 5.

There is zero lag between A and B and whilst I am merely looking at compressed video on Laptop B there is no obvious loss of image quality for EAA "live view", whilst heavier data capture for AP is occurring on Laptop A for later further image processing.

 

[stash_old]

On 29/12/2017 at 23:15, noah4x4 said:

Raspberry Pi with its limited 802.11n wireless might be a bit slow with more data hungry cameras like the Atik Horizon or ZWO AS1600. 

An Easy EAA + AP route that will work even with these greedy beasts...total wireless control from inside the warmth of my office...works great with my Nikon 24 megapixel DSLR too.

I put laptop A near the scope connected to the camera by USB3  cable. This laptop does all the heavy data crunching. I propose to replace this soon by a NUC mini computer or Intel compute stick.  Note that I will avoid Atom processor versions (again possibly too slow). Am currently  working out the best power solutions for remote locations.

I then control scope alignment, GoTo and fine adjustment by Celestron WiFi to SkySafari on an Android tablet. This mobility is useful, because you can walk around with this controller whether inside or out (as a precaution if (say) getting close to slew limits or worried about back end clearance).

I will shortly be controlling Focuser by Starlight MKIT20-Wl wireless unit (on order). For now I simply focus locally and set at infinity, then tweak in software (for DSLR I use Digicamcintrol.com.).  

I then control laptop A from laptop B using (free) TeamViewer. The laptops are connected wirelessly via my  (fastest) 802.11ac BT Home Hub 5.

There is zero lag between A and B and whilst I am merely looking at compressed video on Laptop B there is no obvious loss of image quality for EAA "live view", whilst heavier data capture for AP is occurring on Laptop A for later further image processing.

 

Yes I see your set up but it  was not my intention to create a complete set up only a Grab and Go with as little wiring as possible etc.

Obsys set up is on par with your suggestion but I dont bother with wireless as there is a time lag when compared to wired.

My main purpose / aim for the grab & go was :

1. Min wires/small foot print - achieved only wires are power from battery to dist board(4 to 1 12v cable splitter) which feeds the mount/camera/RPI. Control of the mount and camera are totally wireless via he RPI so no RDP/Teamviewer/VNC involved as the RPI acts as a transparent bridge to ASCOM/APT Canon drivers.

2. As its grab and go  - weight - RPI is far lighter than a laptop. less to unpack/pack as it sits in the Eyepiece tray suck down with Velcro

3. Relatively Cheap to run and replace - RPI £30 plus £30 Virtuallyhere software - laptop £200+

4. Wireless control of non wireless Canon (and others maybe) DSLR camera's via APT/BYEos - achieved at cost of £30 for Virtualhere server on RPI 

I excepted from the outset I would not be using CCD/CMOS camera's in my Grab and GO set up and that the download speed would be slower (but not much in the real world trials I have done). So I am quite happy in achieving my aims. Room for improvement certainly but for now it works and meets my Mobile needs.

Clear Skies.

[noah4x4]

Very fair points Stash_old, . Your solution using Raspberry Pi is excellent for most users and suitable for the majority of camera and EAA needs, but possibly not all.

I did deliberately commence my post with a caveat about the likely additional challenges when attempting to use any Raspberry Pi solution with any of the new larger sensor/high pixel count cameras (like the Atik Horizon or ZWO AS1600) that ideally require USB3 speeds when cabled but do have internal memory buffers to assist at USB2 provided the computer processor can handle the load. This new generation of CMOS cameras inevitably require an awful lot more computing power and wireless ooomph than earlier models. 

The Raspberry Pi 3 is limited to 802.11n wireless and a replacement Pi 4 supporting both 802.11ac and USB3 isn't expected until 2019. I also believe that some of the cheaper Intel (Atom & Celeron) Compute sticks and similar Intel NUC units MIGHT also struggle with these new cameras. So my post was just a word of caution to others purchasing larger sensor/greater pixel cameras.

 I hope to take delivery of my Atik Horizon soon, and will be testing solutions using Celeron T3500; Celeron N3050 and Core-i3 processors at both 802.11n and 802.11ac. I suspect that 802.11ac and Core-i3 may be desirable if wireless, but merely Celeron N3050 might suffice if cabled.  But I would love to hear from other Atik Horizon or ZWO AS1600 owners as regards their EAA set ups as at this stage information here (or in Cloudy Nights) is inconclusive, except that they probably won't work with the limited computing power of Raspberry Pi (Atik Support confirmed this as regards Atik Air).