Small scope to take camping

[Louis D]

9 hours ago, Javert said:

I've just had a quick look at the Telrad and I like the idea of the circles in the display.

Just be cognizant of it's rather large size relative to small scopes.  It can be difficult finding a place to mount it on some short tube refractors.  I prefer the Rigel Quickfinder for smaller scopes.

[scarp15]

The lovely thing about taking a small and compact refractor with you camping is the ultra wide field that you can achieve. This makes finding things easier and it is a pleasure to sweep the sky and locate for example asterisms and large open clusters. As I have already mentioned, on my recent camping trip, although not a great success, I was easily able to accommodate the North American Nebula in its entirety inside the field of view. Also consider cool down time, a small frac not unlike a pair of larger observational binoculars, can be set up in an instance, any onset of rain etc and it can be quickly taken inside the tent. As Louis has mentioned above, besides the wide field of view, a rigel quikfinder is all that you need. 

[Javert]

Hmm, didn't realise the Tetrad was big. Guess I'll be better off with the Rigel instead especially if I'm using it on a smaller scope. Saying that though, it the 200p I've had the problems with. I'll address that issue later.

Here's where I am with my portable / travel / camping options... (any prices quoted are those currently on FLO) and my budget is around £300 - £400 but could increase if I split purchases across a number of months (I'd have to run it by the Mrs for a start!)

SkyWatcher ST80 OTA - £98.00 and use it on my photo tripod

SkyWatcher ST102 OTA - £169.00 and use on my photo tripod (but not sure if I'd need to buy a photo tripod adapter)

SkyWatcher ST102 with AZ GoTo - £309.00

Meade ETX80 - £285.00 (from Opticstar)

Opticstar AZ80 GoTo - £199.00 (from Opticstar)

Opticstar ARC102S OTA - £155.00 (from Opticstar) and use on my photo tripod

SkyWatcher Evostar 80ED OTA - £349.00 but not sure whether it'd be too heavy for my photo tripod and whether I'd need other accessories (may need the £459.00 version instead)

I think this is all of them (the Opticstar ones are ones that I've only just noticed when looking at the ETX80 - I've no idea what the quality is like). One thing I've not budgeted for in the above is a power tank (if I were to get a GoTo).

As i've mentioned previously, I do like the look of the SkyWatcher Star Adventurer mount, which I could put on my photo tripod and it's tiny so idea for travel use. This is currently £259.00 for the Astonomy bundle so would allow me to get this plus the ST80 or possibly either of the 102's. At a push I could probably afford the Evostar 80ED now and use it on my EQ5 or photo tripod (subject to weight). I've seen a lot of people over the years praise the 80ED but most people then seem to trade up from it. Is it likely to be ok on a Manfrotto Carbon Fibre tripod and is it worth the extra expense over the others?

My purchase now is going to have to be something I'm going to live with for a while, so I want to get it right and I really appreciate all of the comments, feedback and suggestions made by everyone.

From my list, I think you can tell I've settled on getting a Refractor, I just don't know which one. I already have a Reflector and don't really want another one and I think a Mak/SCT wouldn't really suit me at present.

edit - still think I'm leaning towards either the ETX80 or ST102 on AZ GoTo (£300) and then possibly get the Star Adventurer next spring.

Also, just attached a small spare dovetail bar to my tripod ball head. Fits ok, but the screw only goes in 2 or 3mm. Surely this can't be sufficient to hold a telescope! (I'm kind of hoping it is though)

[Louis D]

I have an AT-72ED which has totally supplanted my ST80.  It's quite a bit heavier, but much more capable.  I don't miss the 8mm of aperture at all.  I love its compactness as well.

What sort of mount would you be using between your tripod and OTA?  I used a Manfrotto 128RC on a Manfrotto 055B tripod with my ST80, but it was totally overwhelmed by the AT-72ED above about 45 degrees elevation due to severe imbalance thanks to the OTA's weight.  That's when I switched over the DSV-1 mount.  There are lots of other appropriate alt-az mounts out there.  I use a Manfrotto 058B tripod to support the weight of this setup.  I picked it up used for about $125.  All told, it's a bit heavy, but still manageable with my bad back.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Javert said:

Guess I'll be better off with the Rigel instead especially if I'm using it on a smaller scope. Saying that though, it the 200p I've had the problems with. I'll address that issue later.

I mounted a cheap green laser sight to the control handle of my DSV-1 via the included clamp and some filler material to bring it to correct diameter.  It's so much easier to use than any unit power finder, especially because I can't crank my neck and back around like I used to.  Just check the sky for any planes before clicking it on.  You'll need to order the proper battery and charger for it.  The ad says 16340, but mine takes an 18650.

[Javert]

23 hours ago, Louis D said:

What sort of mount would you be using between your tripod and OTA? 

I've got a Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Carbon Fibre tripod with a Manfrotto 498RC4 ball head. The tripod is light but solid and the head is also pretty solid. How much weight it'd hold though I'm not sure.

I'm thought someone had suggested binoculars but I can't seem to find that post now. Someone at work made the same suggestion to me today. The problem is I have a dodgy left eye and it's almost useless at times (even with glasses).

Still looking at my options though.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Javert said:

I've got a Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Carbon Fibre tripod with a Manfrotto 498RC4 ball head. The tripod is light but solid and the head is also pretty solid. How much weight it'd hold though I'm not sure.

I'm thought someone had suggested binoculars but I can't seem to find that post now. Someone at work made the same suggestion to me today. The problem is I have a dodgy left eye and it's almost useless at times (even with glasses).

Still looking at my options though.

I wouldn't worry too much about the tripod.  It would take a lot of weight to make it collapse.  What I'd be concerned about would be the ball head.  Weight ratings generally assume a more or less horizontal load.  Tip it up too far, and it may not be able to hold it securely.  Even if it can, how are you going to track anything as the earth rotates?  Leave it a little loose with a fair amount of drag?  Some amateur astronomers like to use the Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head.  However, if you're going to shell out that kind of money, though, you're better off getting a dedicated astronomy alt-az head, of which there are many choices from the Skywatcher AZ4 Alt-Az Mount at the lower end to the T-Rex Mount at the higher end, with everything in between.

Observing above about 40 degrees elevation with straight through binoculars is only comfortable if you can recline in a lounge type lawn chair to look up at the sky and brace your elbows on the arm rests to minimize image jitteriness.  Then, you're limited to low power views only.  Jumping up to dedicated astro-binoculars with interchangeable eyepieces to get to higher powers is a huge investment.  I would suggest starting out mono-viewing and adding a low cost binoviewer later to see if you can even make it work for you if the bino urge hits you.

[happy-kat]

I've got lots to read to catch up but I keep reading wedge... you do not need a wedge to start imaging with a motorised altaz mount such as the SE or Star Discovery mount. Have a look at the "No EQ" DSO challenge thread. Yes there are limitations about exposure length before field rotation kicks in but it is surprising what can be managed within those limitations. I have a Virtuoso mount and will be using it with my ST80 I have both a v3 handset and a Bluetooth dongle, both give goto capability (I got the handset at a great price so bought it). Though not had the sky to set it up yet can't see that many stars. The little mount tracks great though and can be used fully manually with the freedom find feature and it will start tracking again once the clutches are engaged.

[Louis D]

9 hours ago, happy-kat said:

I've got lots to read to catch up but I keep reading wedge... you do not need a wedge to start imaging with a motorised altaz mount such as the SE or Star Discovery mount. Have a look at the "No EQ" DSO challenge thread. Yes there are limitations about exposure length before field rotation kicks in but it is surprising what can be managed within those limitations. I have a Virtuoso mount and will be using it with my ST80 I have both a v3 handset and a Bluetooth dongle, both give goto capability (I got the handset at a great price so bought it). Though not had the sky to set it up yet can't see that many stars. The little mount tracks great though and can be used fully manually with the freedom find feature and it will start tracking again once the clutches are engaged.

If you've already got a photo tripod and two ball heads, you can use the Vixen Optics 35505 Polarie Star Tracker or other similar units make your camera track the sky.

[Javert]

Ok, I think I'm partially decided on what I'm going to do.

Will get the Skywatcher Startravel 102 OTA (and use it on my current EQ5). I'm still interested in GoTo, but might leave it for now and stick with what I've got. I already have the Dual Axis kit which works fine. I'll give the Astro EQ more of a go, although it is a bit of a pain having to use a laptop and have even more cables lying around.

I'm really interested in what the Star Adventurer mount can do as I love photography and have done plenty of time-lapse video's in the past. This would also be an ideal mount for camping, which was the whole point in the first place.

Feel like I've wasted peoples time, and I apologise for this, but I have at least found an OTA that will suit my needs (wanted a refractor anyway) and possibly a small travel mount that I can use with my existing photo equipment.

[happy-kat]

Your eq5 tripod legs I have read being used with the star adventurer I think. Not wasted any time it's great to spend someone else's money :-)

[Javert]

Following my previous post, I'm still sat here thinking I'd like GoTo.

Whether that would mean buying the ST102 on the AZ GoTo or whether I buy the OTA now and pick up either the Allview mount or EQ5 GoTo upgrade later, I'm not sure.

I could probably buy the ST102 on the AZ GoTo at the end of the month, but I quite like the look of the Allview. I know the EQ5 upgrade would probably be the better option though (as I've done a bit of AP in the past just using the Dual Axis motors).

I'll probably just end up buying the OTA on its own and dig out Turn Left At Orion again! I could always get the Allview of EQ5 GoTo upgrade later.

Not matter what, I'm 99% certain (possibly) that I'll be getting the ST102 in a few weeks and the Star Adventurer in the next 6 months.

[happy-kat]

Meant to add I think the ST102 is too heavy for the star adventurer if that had been your plan might want to check weights. Read a great review on here on the ST102 last month.

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, Javert said:

Following my previous post, I'm still sat here thinking I'd like GoTo.

I just had a thought.  You could get the cheapest goto mount with something like an ST80 or smaller on it.  Put a green laser sight on it and let it slew to the target.  Verify it is in the small scope.  Have a big push-to dob nearby.  Leave the green laser sight on the goto scope and push the dob until its own green laser sight (or Telrad) is pointing at the same point in the sky.  You'll be able to see the end of the green laser sight in the eyepiece of the dob as verification.  That way, you don't need a big, expensive goto mount to find targets with a big dob.  I'm not saying this is viable for camping, but it would be useful in the backyard.

[happy-kat]

Using laser light is not very safe for air traffic and adds another layer of flaffing about checking rigerously.

[Javert]

17 hours ago, happy-kat said:

Meant to add I think the ST102 is too heavy for the star adventurer if that had been your plan might want to check weights. Read a great review on here on the ST102 last month.

That was my plan and I thought the weight was ok.

Isnt the ST102 about 2.5kg and the Star Adventurer able to hold 4-5kg?

[happy-kat]

I don't have any experience of the star adventurer to comment specifically. There are several users of the SA here who might hopefully comment or even check with FLO :-)

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, happy-kat said:

Using laser light is not very safe for air traffic and adds another layer of flaffing about checking rigerously.

Maybe in metro London, but in rural Texas, there isn't much to worry about.  I just do a quick look at the sky to see if any planes are nearby before lighting it up.  They're getting to be very popular over here as an aid to unit power finders.  I can't crank my neck and back around to use the latter comfortably anymore.

[Javert]

I've sorted of chickened out of making a decision so far, but I have bought myself some Celestron 15x70 binoculars. I know I rules them out the other week cos of my dodgy left eye, but for £60 I thought I'd take a punt.

Got them yesterday and they're unbelievably better than my 30yr old 10x50's.

Not had chance to try them on the night sky yet, but really looking forward to giving them a go.

Still in the market for a small scope though.