Looking to hunt for M16, M17 & M8- advice?

[pipnina]

Last year I didn't manage to find them because I tried to observe them too late in the year, but this year I may well be able to go stargazing in August as opposed to September.

I've wanted to see M16 since day one because of the Hubble image, but with two other messier nebulae near by M17 and M8 got dragged into the pool, too. So my questions:

• Does their altitude make observing them tricky in the UK? They're quite low down at all times of the year...
• Are they relatively easy to find in the field?
• When is the best time to observe them?

Thanks a bunch!

    ~pip

 

[Size9Hex]

Hi Pip, I caught these for the first time recently and went straight back the next chance I got. They're awesome! You're going to love them.

I'd say they're not too tricky from the UK. Certainly easier than some of the faint messier globs in the same region. I managed them without filter in both 4 and 10" scopes but a UHC or OIII improved them. Find a dark site with a (very) low southern horizon, and that's not situated north of a town.

They're all easy to find, and In fact the Lagoon (or at least the star cluster involved) was naked eye averted. Don't forget the Triffid while you're there!

Get them as soon as you can. They're already past south and starting to set by the middle of the night.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[pipnina]

8 hours ago, Size9Hex said:

Hi Pip, I caught these for the first time recently and went straight back the next chance I got. They're awesome! You're going to love them.

I'd say they're not too tricky from the UK. Certainly easier than some of the faint messier globs in the same region. I managed them without filter in both 4 and 10" scopes but a UHC or OIII improved them. Find a dark site with a (very) low southern horizon, and that's not situated north of a town.

They're all easy to find, and In fact the Lagoon (or at least the star cluster involved) was naked eye averted. Don't forget the Triffid while you're there!

Get them as soon as you can. They're already past south and starting to set by the middle of the night.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Well, let's hope for clear skies next week when the moon is gone! I'll have to see if I can detect the Lagoon without optical aid (I believe the Sagittarius star cloud is bright, too?).

My dark site is ocean when looking south, pretty low horizon from there  I might be in luck.

How dark is your site roughly so I can use that to guess what I might see? I was able to detect the winter milky way when I was at my dark site last. (It wasn't bright by any means, but visible none the less)

Clear skies!

    ~pip

[Stu]

Lovely targets to hunt for Pip. You should be fine from a south coast location. I had a great session in Devon on these sorts of targets. If the Milky Way is reasonably bright then these objects are pretty easy to find.

I caught M7 and M6 too which are lower down still.

Three reports here which may be of some interest, the first two most relevant as the third was from Samos which gave me a big horizon advantage! Quite long reads I'm afraid!

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/251044-devon-jollies/#comment-2735479

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/223732-dorset-sagittarius-adventures/#comment-2406891

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/247959-samos-holiday-observing-junejuly-2015/#comment-2698156

[Davesellars]

No problem seeing these in the South of the UK.  Really in a week's time these will be just about OK to view again viewing catching them before the Moon rises.

My favourite starting point for those Sagittarius goodies is Kaus Borealis at mag 2.8 even low down it's relatively easy to see naked eye (I observe at approx magnitude 5 - 5.2 NELM).  Just 5 degrees West RA you directly hit M8  From here there's a really nice "route" to finish at M16.

The nebulosity in M8 is easy to see but imho much enhanced by a UHC filter.   Then just above it you've got M20 and M21 together.

From M21 find Polis - use approximately the same angle to go from M20 to M21 to hit Polis together with 15 Sag and 16 Sag.

Using the angle from 16 Polis to 15 Sag keep going until you hit a really dense patch of stars with about 5 or 6 brighter ones (if you have around 2 degrees FOV this will be obvious).

Keep going in the same direction  and you should see M18 on the way (look closely as it's not quite so obvious)  A bit further on and you come across M17.  Now, M17 the OIII nebulosity that gives it the swan shape is extremely bright and easily visible with no filter.  in fact a filter (UHC) helps imho to bring out a touch more and HII region.

Straight up north from M17 to M16...   Now last time I saw it the nebulosity was immense but it was with excellent transparency, no Moon and approx 5.5 mag NELM on this night.  On other nights it's been a rather damp squib.  The UHC filter though really helps with this nebula and brought out well the HII regions as well as the central (small) OIII area which is quite bright.

For all the above nebulae it is best to use the lowest magnification you can muster from your scope to get in the region of 4 to 5 x power per inch.

BTW, to get directly to M16 there's numerous bright naked eye stars close to it that's easy to star hop from to the nebula.

 

Good luck!

[Size9Hex]

On 17 July 2016 at 21:04, pipnina said:

Well, let's hope for clear skies next week when the moon is gone! I'll have to see if I can detect the Lagoon without optical aid (I believe the Sagittarius star cloud is bright, too?).

My dark site is ocean when looking south, pretty low horizon from there  I might be in luck.

How dark is your site roughly so I can use that to guess what I might see? I was able to detect the winter milky way when I was at my dark site last. (It wasn't bright by any means, but visible none the less)

Clear skies!

    ~pip

That must be a treat stargazing over the sea! The Sagittarius star cloud stands out nicely to the naked eye, and there's a big bright patch up in Scutum too. I spent a fair bit of time last trip out just following the Milky Way naked eye. So much to see. Below the Lagoon, I found the Milky Way was starting to get very washed out near the horizon though even though the photos show that region is very bright. At zenith I get about mag 6 and a bit in averted vision (with some effort). Near the horizon, I could see the stars of the teapot fairly easily. If you can see the winter Milky Way it sounds promising.

[pipnina]

Just now, Size9Hex said:

That must be a treat stargazing over the sea! The Sagittarius star cloud stands out nicely to the naked eye, and there's a big bright patch up in Scutum too. I spent a fair bit of time last trip out just following the Milky Way naked eye. So much to see. Below the Lagoon, I found the Milky Way was starting to get very washed out near the horizon though even though the photos show that region is very bright. At zenith I get about mag 6 and a bit in averted vision (with some effort). Near the horizon, I could see the stars of the teapot fairly easily. If you can see the winter Milky Way it sounds promising.

I've never managed to pin my NELM down, exactly. It varies drastically from one part of the sky to another anyway. But in the south it's at its best fortunately. 

Well, I guess I'll have to go and see for myself now . I'll try not to get too excited in the meantime. (In case the sky figures out I have plans!)

Thanks for your info!

    ~pip