M101 observing with 4 inch refractor - no luck

[D4N]

I can see M101 easily in my 70mm frac but then I have dark skies and M33 is visible naked eye (makes finding it much easier!).

Galaxies suffer terribly from LP as when you filter out the LP you are also filtering out light from the galaxy making it dimmer. Emission nebulae are better in this respect as the likes of UHC filters can remove the LP without dimming the nebula.

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[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

My LP filter worked well, even on galaxies, with the old low-pressure sodium and mercury lamps we used to have. It became significantly less useful with the introduction of high-pressure sodium lamps, and is essentially useless with all the continuum-emitting lights the city of Groningen now sports.

[mikeDnight]

Your 4" will show it, but as its a face on galaxy it is faintfaint, but its also quite large. M101 requires a transparent sky and the haze that often lingers over towns can be destructive when it comes to seeing fuzzys in small apertures. You could try taking your scope out of town to a dark site and possibly use a dark shroud over your head and eyepiece to aid with dark adaption.

Mike

[Maged]

Thank you all for the replies and the very useful information. 

I just came back from a dark site but to my bad luck that night was hazy so I still couldn't locate M101.

but I was lucky to locate M54 and M7 

But 

still M101 is driving me crazy

[Tiki]

When the transparency is excellent, M101 near the zenith, not even a hint of moon I can just about make out M101 with direct vision

using my TV101 from my 'suburban' back garden. For comparison, M31 can just about be observed with direct vision naked-eye with similar positioning/conditions. Sighting M101 (or M31 naked-eye) from home tells me that the conditions are excellent.

Once you have memorized the star-fields it could be worth trying a shorter focal length EP (15ish-25ish) in your search. From home especially, I find that higher powers can sometimes help with low-contrast objects by darkening the sky background.

Good luck with your search.

[Maged]

When the transparency is excellent, M101 near the zenith, not even a hint of moon I can just about make out M101 with direct vision

using my TV101 from my 'suburban' back garden. For comparison, M31 can just about be observed with direct vision naked-eye with similar positioning/conditions. Sighting M101 (or M31 naked-eye) from home tells me that the conditions are excellent.

Once you have memorized the star-fields it could be worth trying a shorter focal length EP (15ish-25ish) in your search. From home especially, I find that higher powers can sometimes help with low-contrast objects by darkening the sky background.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks for the tip I will try shorter focal length EP

[Davesellars]

M101 is difficult unless you have a dark sky.  I would say it's probably not possible in skies of much less than 5 NELM and even then depends even more on the transparency being good to excellent.  The above comment about increasing the contrast is a good one and you should choose your eyepiece to give an exit pupil of 2 or perhaps even 1.5 in slightly more light polluted skies.  It may seem counter-intuitive to actually increase the magnification and therefore make the object dimmer but without making the background contrast dimmer the object may well be lost.  However, I would start on some easier galaxies for now before re-attempting M101 perhaps in the next run-up to new Moon (forget galaxies while there is more than 1/3rd Moon it is a dead loss.  Also for these very faint galaxies it important to stop any stray local light from entering your eyes..  use a towel or something over your head which works wonders...

[Maged]

M101 is difficult unless you have a dark sky.  I would say it's probably not possible in skies of much less than 5 NELM and even then depends even more on the transparency being good to excellent.  The above comment about increasing the contrast is a good one and you should choose your eyepiece to give an exit pupil of 2 or perhaps even 1.5 in slightly more light polluted skies.  It may seem counter-intuitive to actually increase the magnification and therefore make the object dimmer but without making the background contrast dimmer the object may well be lost.  However, I would start on some easier galaxies for now before re-attempting M101 perhaps in the next run-up to new Moon (forget galaxies while there is more than 1/3rd Moon it is a dead loss.  Also for these very faint galaxies it important to stop any stray local light from entering your eyes..  use a towel or something over your head which works wonders...

Thanks for the advice. Can you please recommend easier Galaxies to start with?and what are the criteria in the easy galaxies that I should be looking for, like magnitude? or size?

I was thinking about M81, M51, M61

[Davesellars]

Surface brightness is the criteria as magnitude alone means nothing without size of the object. Have a look at DeepSkyPedia for the data including this on objects. M81 is a good target indeed. Actually M51 is brighter at 13.1 surface brightness and ideally positioned high around midnight. When starting with galaxies a while back I had problems with this even because the light pollution from my house and using the 80mm refractor just wasn't enough but for a darker location this is very clear with my 80mm and fantastic sight with my 8" SCT. M64 is a touch brighter and easy to find. M65 and M66 are really good targets also and exceptionally easy to find by star hopping they are quite bright and in a good position still around midnight. Check out the Virgo / Coma Berenices cluster as this contains many small brighter galaxies that are easy to spot with a smaller aperture.

Good luck!