I have an AZ EQ5GT mount, a Synscan handset and lots of questions!

[osbourne one-nil]

Having been pretty unsuccessful in aligning my new mount on Thursday night and having searched this forum Cloudy Nights and the wider internet for help, I hope no one minds if I have a few questions?

Basically, I thought I'd levelled the mount properly and correctly assumed "home" position (if you pardon the phrase) but having aligned on the first "bright star", when the scope slewed to the 2nd "bright star" it was way off. Having centered the 2nd star in the eyepiece, I then asked the mount to point to the Moon and it positioned the scope to pointing pretty much at the zenith. Hmmmmmm. Also, once aligned on Jupiter, the mount only kept it in the field of view for a couple of minutes. Hmmmmmm again. I'm clearly doing something very wrong!

Is 11.45v enough power? I'm using a brand-new Tracer Lithium Polymer battery which is fully charged. However, on testing it with a volt meter it gives off 11.45v and the mount's power light flashes slowly indicating "Power Voltage is Low". The 11.45v is within the 11-16v range specified though so I guess I can just ignore this? I believe these batters discharge very evenly?

For alt-az alignment, how level does the mount have to be? I had the mount level according to the mount's bubble level. 

For alt-az alignment, how accurately do you have to be pointing north? I roughly aligned the N leg on the tripod and the scope towards Polaris but no more than that. I suppose it's easy to check if the scope is pointing N by raising it in altitude and checking it's aligned on Polaris, but I didn't. Is the leg's position important?

For alt-az alignment, how accurate does your lat/long have to be? The figures I input are within 1 mile of the precise ones, but far easier to remember. I'm sure this is more than good enough?! (I have entered them the right way round btw - Longitude first and got my W and N correct)

For alt-az alignment, how level does the scope have to be in "home position"? I only levelled it by eye. 

Are reticle eyepieces required, or is centering the star in the centre of a 9mm eyepiece good enough?

Why can't the handset have a small battery to remember the time and date?!!

I'm sure they'll be more!

[Snaxmuppet]

I am very interested in the answers to these questions. I have a new AZ-EQ5GT which I haven't yet had the chance to use. I have set up in my lounge but it has been cloudy the past few days

My understanding is that with alt-az alignment nothing needs to be totally accurate because the star alignment will handle any small inaccuracies. However, the closer it is the closer the initial star alignment will be and the better the goto and tracking will be.

Be warned of the scope's bubble levels. They are not particularly accurate... at least mine aren't! On mine, the one to level the tripod seems OK but the one on the head RA axis is way out. I use a spirit level on the weight bar to get the head level in RA and it is way out when compared to the little one on the head.

Again, regarding the reticule EP... in alt-az mode again, not critical but the closer you can get the more accurate the goto and tracking will be. I use a 10mm reticule EP when visual and use the reticule on the software when imaging but then that is in EQ mode when accuracy is critical.

The fact that it doesn't store date/time is crass in the extreme IMO.

As I say... I am very much a beginner and I may have it all wrong so still looking forward to others views on this

[Tinker1947]

In EQ mode the Home position would be Weight bar pointing down and the scope pointing at Polaris, you would then polar align and the do a 2 star align, if you location data is entered correctly it should slew the chosen star or close to it....Power need to be around 14v from a stable supply, a battery won't give any more than 12v, the the power light flickers when slewing your voltage is dropping to close to 11v and this will affect slewing ect...

[osbourne one-nil]

Thanks both - I will take my own spirit level out with me next time and check properly, but I thought in alt-az mode close enough would be good enough. I'll be using it in alt-az almost all the time; I was attracted by its ability to allow manual slewing while retaining its positional knowledge. 

What Tinker says about the battery is a bit worrying as I did ask FLO if the battery I bought would be ok. Are you saying I need a stepped-down mains supply of 14v for accurate tracking or is that just ideal? The mount's specification does state a range of 11v to 16v. Would that explain why the mount's slewing is many degrees off?

[Snaxmuppet]

Forgive me... I think tinker1947 might be wrong on that about the voltage...

This is from FLO web site...

Power Requirement: DC 11-16V 2A (Sky-Watcher 7Ah or 17Ah Power Tank Recommended)

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-az-eq5-gt-geq-alt-az-mount.html

I set up in my lounge just using a car jump start battery that has a 12V output and it all is working fine. The powertanks output 12V so that must be fine IMO

Yes, I got it so I can use it in alt-az mode when visual as it needs no accurate polar alignment and in EQ mode when imaging.

I would guess that the slewing being off is because you are less accurate in centering. The more centred alignment is the closer slewing will be... at least that is the way I understand it (again, a reminder... I am a beginner and learning this stuff myself!)

EDIT:

Just did some searches and it appears that there are voltage issues with the NEQ6. The NEQ6 seems particularly sensive to low voltages. I am not sure this would apply to the AZ-EQ5GT. Is anyone else having trouble powering the AZ-EQ5GT from a standard 12V battery?

[Lonestar70]

Hi Guy's,

At the risk of the wrath of the gods....

I am with Tinker on this one... it is a fairly well known fact that Skywatchers voltage specification is wildly wide of the mark when it comes to LOW VOLTAGE limit.

Most Skywatcher owners I know of, and from my own experience with the HEQ5, would agree that a low voltage of 12.5volts is the more accurate lower limit.

I know Gina has problems with her mounts at anything below this and my own mount (HEQ5) will start flashing and becomes erratic at around 12.5volts.

A fully charged lithium polymer battery will be at 12.6 volts MAX and will drop to 12volts (or slightly below) within about 20 minutes (take a look at the discharge curves on FLO site)... at which point it remains reasonably stable for a few hours with typical use.

Furthermore... if yours is only outputing 11.45v after a full charge... then it (or it's charger) is faulty and needs to be replaced

I would therefore conclude that your battery is not capable of driving your Skywatcher mount... for more than a few minutes before it falls below the REAL low voltage limit.

A better choice would be a Deep Discharge leisure battery, which will have a fully charged voltage of approx 13.8v. (this would also apply to a power tank)

The down side is... they are a lot heavier to lug around.

For home use... a mains powered stabilised 13.8v DC at 5 - 10 Amps power supply would be the best.

Keep happy.

Best regards.

Sandy.

[Snaxmuppet]

While I certainly respect your experience with past mounts I think it is a bit premature to assume that the AZ-EQ5GT has the same issues as previous SW mounts without someone confirming it. Is it not a distinct possibility that Synta have resolved the voltage issues in what is a totally brand new mount?

I am certainly not arguing with you that SW mounts in the past have had voltage issues but don't you think that we ought to get confirmation that these issues remain in the AZ-EQ5GT before we condem it and commit us to buying extra equipment to resolve an issue that might not longer exist?

Just a thought...

[johnpd]

Having been pretty unsuccessful in aligning my new mount on Thursday night and having searched this forum Cloudy Nights and the wider internet for help, I hope no one minds if I have a few questions?

Basically, I thought I'd levelled the mount properly and correctly assumed "home" position (if you pardon the phrase) but having aligned on the first "bright star", when the scope slewed to the 2nd "bright star" it was way off. Having centered the 2nd star in the eyepiece, I then asked the mount to point to the Moon and it positioned the scope to pointing pretty much at the zenith. Hmmmmmm. Also, once aligned on Jupiter, the mount only kept it in the field of view for a couple of minutes. Hmmmmmm again. I'm clearly doing something very wrong!

Is 11.45v enough power? I'm using a brand-new Tracer Lithium Polymer battery which is fully charged. However, on testing it with a volt meter it gives off 11.45v and the mount's power light flashes slowly indicating "Power Voltage is Low". The 11.45v is within the 11-16v range specified though so I guess I can just ignore this? I believe these batters discharge very evenly?

For alt-az alignment, how level does the mount have to be? I had the mount level according to the mount's bubble level. 

For alt-az alignment, how accurately do you have to be pointing north? I roughly aligned the N leg on the tripod and the scope towards Polaris but no more than that. I suppose it's easy to check if the scope is pointing N by raising it in altitude and checking it's aligned on Polaris, but I didn't. Is the leg's position important?

For alt-az alignment, how accurate does your lat/long have to be? The figures I input are within 1 mile of the precise ones, but far easier to remember. I'm sure this is more than good enough?! (I have entered them the right way round btw - Longitude first and got my W and N correct)

For alt-az alignment, how level does the scope have to be in "home position"? I only levelled it by eye. 

Are reticle eyepieces required, or is centering the star in the centre of a 9mm eyepiece good enough?

Why can't the handset have a small battery to remember the time and date?!!

I'm sure they'll be more!

I have an AZ-EQ6 which I use primarily in Alt-Az mode.

1. Power Source: That might be a little too low for voltage especially if you see the power light flashing. That can lead to some strange results.

2. Use a bubble/spirit level to get a good leveling of the mount. Use Polaris to point the mount north. If still light, use a compass with a "true north" adjustment.

3. If the Lat/Long is within a mile, that is more than close enough.

4. A 9mm eyepiece should be OK. A reticle eyepiece is better. What telescope are you using?

5. Regarding a handset battery, it would need a little more than that. It requires a "real time clock" built into it so that it not only can adjust time but also date. I know there is a GPS adapter for the AZ-EQ6 which generates date, time, and location. It probably would be available for the AZ-EQ5, but it is no big deal to enter the date/time especially if you observe from the same location and do not have to enter Lat/Long each time.

JohnD

[Tinker1947]

If the power light flickers your under the required voltage to drive the mount, its a simple as that.....

[osbourne one-nil]

Hi Guy's,

I would therefore conclude that your battery is not capable of driving your Skywatcher mount... for more than a few minutes before it falls below the REAL low voltage limit.

Sandy.

It does seem a bit low to me. I'll keep checking it and raise it with FLO. However, would that explain the wildly inaccurate slewing to a 2nd star and subsequent slewing? I'd have thought it would just take longer to get there as the encoders still do their thing; they still revolve the same number of times and click their clicks?!

[osbourne one-nil]

I have an AZ-EQ6 which I use primarily in Alt-Az mode.

1. Power Source: That might be a little too low for voltage especially if you see the power light flashing. That can lead to some strange results.

Right - trip to Maplins coming up!

I'm using a TAK 100fc - very light. 

[Snaxmuppet]

I would recommend checking that the bubble level is in fact indicating level. As I say... one of the bubble levels on my AZ-EQ5GT is well out and not indicating a horizontal level head when the bubble is central. I will be removing it and reinstalling it myself so it is level.

[Tinker1947]

These PSU work very well, i would only use them in a dry shed/room, with a low power lead from there to the mount distance don't matter to much 20- 30 feet worked fine with my NEQ6....

[Gazabone]

I've never used a SW goto mount, only the 3-2 and NEQ 6pro (Syntrek version) but have a bit of a love hate relationship with my goto mounts (Celeston Nexstar and AVX). However, just a few pointers to suggest;

1. Make sure you have the location entered correctly (finding the moon at zenith suggests to me that perhaps the mount thinks it's a good many miles away from where it actually is).

2. Make sure you've entered the date correctly, especially whether it's in dd/mm/yy or mm/did/yy format.

3. Make sure you have the time correctly especially that you have it entered in the correct time zone (ie UT or PST or EST etc etc etc and that you have daylight savings entered correctly).

4. Some people may disagree with me but I am wary of running more than the mount from one battery. If I'm powering laptop, dew heater etc, I like to run that from a different power source.

5. I'm sure in alt az mode you don't need to level the tripod. I think in EQ mode it probably doesn't matter. I'm led to understand I don't have to level my AVX (eq) but I do anyway.

Lastly keep persevering with it. I found using a 2038mm scope quite difficult on my AVX mount because it needs such accuracy so I use that one on my NEQ 6 mount now and find my targets using the setting circles.

[osbourne one-nil]

I've got a 6" Stanley spirit level which happens to be magnetic and have a bevelled straight edge so it ensures it's square - I'll add that to my case. 

Tinker - most of the time I take a mount out into the fells so it's definitely a battery option I need. I think I'll eliminate the home position first and see what happens. 

[osbourne one-nil]

I've never used a SW goto mount, only the 3-2 and NEQ 6pro (Syntrek version) but have a bit of a love hate relationship with my goto mounts (Celeston Nexstar and AVX). However, just a few pointers to suggest;

1. Make sure you have the location entered correctly (finding the moon at zenith suggests to me that perhaps the mount thinks it's a good many miles away from where it actually is).

2. Make sure you've entered the date correctly, especially whether it's in dd/mm/yy or mm/did/yy format.

3. Make sure you have the time correctly especially that you have it entered in the correct time zone (ie UT or PST or EST etc etc etc and that you have daylight savings entered correctly).

4. Some people may disagree with me but I am wary of running more than the mount from one battery. If I'm powering laptop, dew heater etc, I like to run that from a different power source.

5. I'm sure in alt az mode you don't need to level the tripod. I think in EQ mode it probably doesn't matter. I'm led to understand I don't have to level my AVX (eq) but I do anyway.

Lastly keep persevering with it. I found using a 2038mm scope quite difficult on my AVX mount because it needs such accuracy so I use that one on my NEQ 6 mount now and find my targets using the setting circles.

Thanks - I've gone from a Porta II on a Berlebach tripod which was as straightforward as you could get, so there's going to be some learning curve! I wondered about the date; the mount asks or a MM/DD/YYYY format, but on Thursday it was April 30th and that couldn't have been entered incorrectly, or (I assume) not accepted as a correct entry anyway?!

[Snaxmuppet]

Thanks everyone.

I shall get a 2nd battery power source that is dedicated to the mount and I already have a DC-DC converter to supply a 15V from a 12V battery (I needed it for a laptop and they are quite pricey but very handy ). I just need to make sure it han handle the current when under load.

[Lonestar70]

While I certainly respect your experience with past mounts I think it is a bit premature to assume that the AZ-EQ5GT has the same issues as previous SW mounts without someone confirming it. Is it not a distinct possibility that Synta have resolved the voltage issues in what is a totally brand new mount?

I am certainly not arguing with you that SW mounts in the past have had voltage issues but don't you think that we ought to get confirmation that these issues remain in the AZ-EQ5GT before we condem it and commit us to buying extra equipment to resolve an issue that might not longer exist?

Just a thought...

Hi,

Yes I agree that it is perhaps early days yet to be making the claim about the AZ-EQ5GT and that it needs to be confirmed.

Having said that... SW do not appear to have addressed the problem for the AZ-EQ6GT or even their flagship EQ8 so I will not bank on them having addressed it for the AZ-EQ5GT either... I would be happy to be proved wrong though.

Regardless of the above, it would seem to be born out by the fact that this particular AZ-EQ5GT will not work correctly and has low battery warnings flashing at above the claimed 11v lower limit... perhaps this suggests something is still not quite true with the specifications.

I sincerely hope that SW have actually resolved this issue for their latest mount, since it has caused a great deal of anguish in the past for many users and should have been dealt with many moons ago... they have had plenty of fault reports and time to have done so... but seem to have just ignored the problem.

Keep happy.

Best regards.

Sandy.

[johnpd]

Some helpful Alt-Az tips:

1. Once you are set up north/level and start your scope and have entered the date/time/location, do not start the alignment. Go to the "Utility" menu, select "Park" > "Current Pos". This establishes the Alt-Az Park position (0-Alt, 0-Az).

2. Make sure the "Auxiliary Encoders" are disabled. They can lead to pointing errors.

3. NOTE: In Alt-Az Mode, the mount will not slew to the first alignment star. You need to manually move the mount to it. A better method:

  a. Determine what star you want to use as the first alignment star.

  b. Use the "Object" menu > "Named Star" or "SAO" number to find that star, select it and let the mount slew to it.

  c. It most likely will not be in the eyepiece. Use the hand controller to do a rough alignment to the star. A more precise alignment will be done next.

4. Start the Align process ("Setup" > "Alignment" > "2-Star Align").

5. Choose the star that you used above and now do a precise align on it.

6. Select a second alignment star. The mount will now slew automatically to that star.

7. Precise align on the second star and you should be good to go.

JohnD

[osbourne one-nil]

Brilliant - thanks John - I wish there was a way to do this during daylight hours though!

[jambouk]

You can do this in day light hours.

Get one of the various apps for your smart phone which when you hold your phone at arms length and point it to different parts of the sky it shows you in screen what stars are there.

Then set the mount up, indoors if you like, which makes seeing the smart phone screen easier, input the current location, date and current time... Then use the app to find roughly where various stars should be, do your alignment then test the goto again using the app. Easy.

James

[osbourne one-nil]

Good idea - thanks. I have a Blackberry though so wish me luck!

[jambouk]

Or use stellarium and a compass azimuth and number of fists at arms length for elevation. Ways and means

[osbourne one-nil]

Indeed - I won't know if it's spot-on of course, but I'll know if it's closer than the other night. However, the skies are clearing here anyway...although it's still raining. Perhaps it'll be ok later. 

[thehand]

One thing to keep in mind with batteries is that they have a fast impedance response that looks like an IxR drop. If your Open Circuit (OC) voltage is near your low voltage limit then the mount's undervoltage protection limit may be kicking in when the battery is pulsed. If you know the load current profile you can estimate the amount of voltage fluctuation on the battery. If this is the case you have three options:

1) Disable undervoltage protection - not recommended

2) Put a DC/DC converter in front of the battery that can handle the peak currents - expensive

3) Select a different battery technology that will operate within limits - probably the cheapest

OC battery voltage will also increase after discharge in a period called "settling" time. This is why you can't estimate State of Charge right after use. For more info there are plenty of online resources.