Orion binocular question

[Canada123]

Hello, just joined the site today.

I'm going to order a pair of Orion binoculars but I'm unsure about a few things. I've narrowed it down (I think) to a pair of the Orion Resolux 70mm binoculars. As far as I can tell, they pretty much guarantee good glass and good collimation. There are two models of the 70mm, one is 10X and the other is 15X. I spend my time just cruising around the sky with the 12x50 Bushnells I have now, looking at who knows what, and always come back to Orion and the Pleiades which put on a fantastic show here every winter. And on a very clear night, I can just make out Andromeda, a fuzzy patch of dust.

My question concerns brightness vs. magnification. On one hand it seems ridiculous to spend $400 on a pair of Resolux 10X binoculars that are less powerful than the ones I have now, but with the better glass and larger objective lens, I should get a wonderful and very bright picture.  On the other hand, 15X will give me more magnification, but perhaps a view that is a little less bright. If Orion and the Pleiades and Andromeda are my main goals, and basically just being in awe of Creation when looking up, any opinions if it is it better to go with the higher magnification or the brighter image?

Thank you.

[Canada123]

I don't think I have an edit option as a new member, but in case it makes a difference, I live in a rural area, and light pollution is low.

[JED-E3]

These binoculars are surprisingly heavy and if you're going to the trouble of mounting them then why not go for the 15x70s? They'll give more rewarding views of open clusters and comets and stuff.

I've never used a pair of 10x70s but i suspect the exit pupils are going to be large enough to make the views a bit washed out unless you live somewhere very dark.

So +1 vote for the 15x70.

James.

[ghostdance]

Hello canada

Depends on what you want to achieve I think. You already have 12x, so are you looking for wider-field views, or higher mag? If the former, I'd think about 7x or 8x, if the latter, 15x. I have 7,10 & 15 (none Orion or Bushnell so I can't comment on their particular merits) - I find that a pretty nice spread for terrestrial & sky. I'd love to go to bigger mag like 20x100, but my wallet had to be talked down froma high ledge last time I considered it....

Btw, the 15x will still show M31 as a fuzzy patch, but in your skies will probably be *much* more defined than in mine.

[Canada123]

These binoculars are surprisingly heavy and if you're going to the trouble of mounting them then why not go for the 15x70s? They'll give more rewarding views of open clusters and comets and stuff.

I've never used a pair of 10x70s but i suspect the exit pupils are going to be large enough to make the views a bit washed out unless you live somewhere very dark.

So +1 vote for the 15x70.

James.

Hey James,

According to this link, I have at least a rural sky. On a good night, with my 12x50 Bushnells, there are thousands of visible stars.

http://thesciencellama.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/light-pollution-graphic2.jpg

So this is the thing, whether a larger exit pupil ( 4.6 vs. 7) would be better than magnification (10 vs. 15). More than likely you're right, but I was curious if there might be another opinion saying that a little less magnification in exchange for a lot more light would offer and more delicious view.

[Canada123]

Hello canada

Depends on what you want to achieve I think. You already have 12x, so are you looking for wider-field views, or higher mag? If the former, I'd think about 7x or 8x, if the latter, 15x. I have 7,10 & 15 (none Orion or Bushnell so I can't comment on their particular merits) - I find that a pretty nice spread for terrestrial & sky. I'd love to go to bigger mag like 20x100, but my wallet had to be talked down froma high ledge last time I considered it....

Btw, the 15x will still show M31 as a fuzzy patch, but in your skies will probably be *much* more defined than in mine.

Hello London,

I'm trying to achieve... deliciousness. How's that for an answer? I have good dark skies and a pretty unobstructed view. I guess I'm thinking that better quality binoculars are going to give me better eye candy. I realize all this is a bit ethereal as far as reasoning goes, but I just like to sit back, look up, and say "Wow!"

Maybe what you have going is the right thing; two pairs, a nice set of 7x50 and the 15x70. More than likely if I bought the 10x70 it wouldn't be more than a day before I started kicking myself for not getting the 15X.

Maybe I'm just looking for emotional security for my purchase. $400 is not a small amount for me, but I really enjoy my winter star gazing and I want to make sure I spend the money well.

[ghostdance]

Deliciousness......mmm, the exact right word, especially as your view of the Milky Way must be really nice & chocolatey.....I think we have similar outlooks!

In your place, I'd go for mag first (so the 15x) but is be planning for a good lower mag in the near future (7,8) because wide field views, esp with your dark skies, are just plain yummy! Whole starfields opening up and sooo immersive

Looking forward to hearing some really sweet observations from over there!

Steve.

[Canada123]

Deliciousness......mmm, the exact right word, especially as your view of the Milky Way must be really nice & chocolatey.....I think we have similar outlooks!

In your place, I'd go for mag first (so the 15x) but is be planning for a good lower mag in the near future (7,8) because wide field views, esp with your dark skies, are just plain yummy! Whole starfields opening up and sooo immersive

Looking forward to hearing some really sweet observations from over there!

Steve.

". . . but is be planning for a good lower mag in the near future (7,8) because wide field views, esp with your dark skies, are just plain yummy! Whole starfields opening up and sooo immersive"

You could sell a snowball to an Inuit with that kind of sweet talk.

And you pretty much sold me.

I did have a nice pair of Steiner binoculars once, 7x?, can't remember. Bought them used. Was yeeears ago. Left them with a friend in Central America. I remember looking down from the top of a mountain across a valley with those things and it was like having the eyes of an eagle. Yeah, a nice pair of 7X50 would be sweet for taking in a lot of sky.

[BinocularSky]

The Orion Resolux is a branded United Optics BA8; the 15x70 is very highly regarded. The comments on these forums usually refer to them with the Helios Apollo or Oberwerk Ultra brand, but they are the same binocular.

The only reason to consider the 10x50 is if both these conditions apply to you: #1 your pupils open to 7mm or more (measure, don't go by tables of age/pupil diameter: they are all wrong) AND #2 you have access to extremely dark skies (better than mag +6.0 at zenith). If these conditions to not apply to you, you will see more with the 15x70. Even if they do apply to you, there are a limited number of objects which will benefit from the extra brightness; if it was me, I'd still go for the 15x70.

Whichever you go for, you will need to mount it to get the best out of it. Some ideas here.

[Canada123]

Brown Dwarf,

Excellent links. Thank you.

The mono pod with the pistol grip mount looks perfect. A lot of my start gazing is in cold weather, I'll go out in -30 for an hour or so, because those are the nights with the best skies. Not easy staying warm while standing perfectly still, and not easy standing perfectly still while you're cold, but that mono pod looks like it would make the views and the viewing much better.

[Fahndar]

15x70 is the better one. Hurry up, it's on sale right now at Orion for $300. I would buy it myself but I just bought the Orion 25x100. I would not buy 10x70 even if the sky was dark. You may achieve 7 mm pupil in the desert, but even then 6 mm is a better choice as the wider the pupil the more of your eye imperfections will show. If you are serious about astronomy you will own several binoculars. I own 6 so far. My next purchase, when budget allows will be the Resolux 15x70.

[Canada123]

If you are serious about astronomy you will own several binoculars. I own 6 so far.

I can't say that I'm serious about it other than I enjoy looking at the night sky and being amazed and pondering the grand theological and philosophical questions that come to mind when facing the universe. I guess you could call me a comfortable astronomer.

That said, after I get my new pair, hopefully this week, I'll have to give back the 12x50 Bushnells I long term borrowed. But I did see a pair of 7x50 Bushnell Marine binoculars, $150, that look to be good quality. That might be a nice second pair if my budget allows.

As for the Resolux being on sale, I haven't seen that here, but I'll look into it. Thanks.

[ghostdance]

I can't say that I'm serious about it other than I enjoy looking at the night sky and being amazed and pondering the grand theological and philosophical questions that come to mind when facing the universe. I guess you could call me a comfortable astronomer.

That said, after I get my new pair, hopefully this week, I'll have to give back the 12x50 Bushnells I long term borrowed. But I did see a pair of 7x50 Bushnell Marine binoculars, $150, that look to be good quality. That might be a nice second pair if my budget allows.

My diagnosis is that the onset of  BAD (Binocular Aquisition Disease) will soon follow

They are massively addictive & hypnotic little beasts, what with their seductive big eyes looking at you...one look through a good pair & you've had it!

I've only got four and it ain't enough, dammit!

[Canada123]

My diagnosis is that the onset of  BAD (Binocular Aquisition Disease) will soon follow

They are massively addictive & hypnotic little beasts, what with their seductive big eyes looking at you...one look through a good pair & you've had it!

I've only got four and it ain't enough, dammit!

That's funny. Never heard of BAD before. I might just have to catch it.

Still thinking about those 7x50 Bushnell Marine binoculars. Fully multi-coated, waterproof, nitrogen purged, independent focus. Sounds nice for a lightweight grab and go 2nd pair. 

The Resolux are on sale for $300, but it's on Amazon in the US. Here in Canadaland it's $400. And I'd prefer to shop in-country.

[ghostdance]

My brother in law bought a pair of Bushnell (10x I think) when we were on vacation in the States - they seemed pretty good for terrestrial when I looked through em once or twice, but how they are for astro I've no idea (I really should have taken advantage of those desert skies, but of course the one time I did, he'd left em in the cabin!)...I'd hit the online review trail before committing.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I checked out a pair of 10.5x70 Resolux bins in Australia when I visited Sydney. Very well made and beautiful crisp image. I ultimately got a Helios Apollo 15x70 pair for much of the reasons posted above. An exit pupil between 4 and 5mm suits most conditions and maximal pupil sizes better than 6.5-7mm

[Canada123]

Found a dealer not far away who can get the Resolux 15x70 for $390 in ten to fourteen business days. He said he had no other options in that price range. He said the Vixen Ark binoculars he had in stock were up around $600.

Googled "Vixen Ark" and went into uber-drool at the 16x80 model.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Found a dealer not far away who can get the Resolux 15x70 for $390 in ten to fourteen business days. He said he had no other options in that price range. He said the Vixen Ark binoculars he had in stock were up around $600.

Googled "Vixen Ark" and went into uber-drool at the 16x80 model.

I held a Vixen Ark 16x80 in my hands in Japan in Yodabashi Akiba (geek's heaven) and like a fool did not snap one up. They are WAY cheaper in Japan, and still within the limints of what I may import into the EU without custom's charges. They are actually lighter than the 15x70 BA-8 (=Orion Resolux, Helios Apollo HD, TS/APM Marine), and have very similar image quality. Should I ever be in Japan again, I WILL bring a pair back.

[Canada123]

I held a Vixen Ark 16x80 in my hands in Japan in Yodabashi Akiba (geek's heaven) and like a fool did not snap one up. They are WAY cheaper in Japan, and still within the limints of what I may import into the EU without custom's charges. They are actually lighter than the 15x70 BA-8 (=Orion Resolux, Helios Apollo HD, TS/APM Marine), and have very similar image quality. Should I ever be in Japan again, I WILL bring a pair back.

They really do look magically delicious with that 80mm lens. But at $600+, the wife would haul me to the vet and have me put down.

The other thing is that I often use my binoculars in very cold weather, I don't know if I'm better off with a structurally tougher set like the Resolux a opposed to what might be a more "delicate" set like the Vixens. I really don't know if there's a difference, but it did come to mind.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I am not at all sure the Vixen is that delicate. I used a pair of 20x80s last year in Tuscany, and they feel solid enough. The difference in weight is only about 50 g in favour of the Ark, and stems from the use of lightweight but tough magnesium/aluminium alloy, rather than plastic I gather. The nitrogen purge of the Resolux can come in handy in teh cold. Not sure if the Arks are nitrogen purged

[Canada123]

Very often in winter I grab the binoculars and head out with the dog to the end of the street where it's very dark. I'll stay from a few minutes to an hour, and often it is in the -20 to -30 range; the colder it is the more glorious the skies are. So far the Bushnell 12x50 I borrowed have held up. But at about $60, it's not a problem if they don't.

I would imagine there is some creaking and groaning going on structurally when the binoculars go from room temp to -30. And when you bring them back in and set them down, they get a full coating of condensation on them when the now -30 binoculars hit the warm air. Again, I don't know what's what, but I guess the tougher and more waterproof the better. The Resolux are mil-spec and water resistant, so maybe that is an advantage for me.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

You cannot go far wrong with the Resolux. My Helios version of the same binoculars are built like a tank, and do not mind thermal cycling down to -15 or so, but I would not expect any problems well below that temperature.

[Fahndar]

If you are in Canada you should be able to get them from Orion directly, http://www.telescope.com/home.jsp they ship within Canada and US, $300 US at the moment, down from $369

[Canada123]

I appreciate the link, but the problem with ordering from the US - amongst other things - is the dice roll of a brokerage fee you have to pay to clear customs. Could be $5, could be $35, depends on the broker and what he feels like charging that day.  Add 10% exchange, add shipping, add tax, (not even sure about duty fees) and that sweet $300 shoots up to at least $400 in a heartbeat. And if there is a problem with the item, it means going through customs again. In the end, you might still save a few bucks, but not enough, I think, to sacrifice the ease of customer service if there is a problem.

I like buying "Made in the US", but buying mail order from the US can be problematic depending on the item. The store I found in Montreal has a good rep and if there is a problem with the binoculars they'll offer a much easier remedy than international mail.

Thanks though, I appreciate the help.

[Canada123]

15x70 Resolux Ordered!

And now the excruciating wait. Could be this Friday or the following Monday.

Was out last night for a long time and back out this morning at 4:30am, looking at everything, testing holding positions, seeing how things looked at 12x and wondering if a more steady 10X would be better and get used more comfortably and more often, or if the "trouble" of a 15X would be better. In the end, given the cash outlay - and I do not have a lot of cash, this is my summer gift to myself - I figured the bigger pair would give me an optical instrument and a stellar laboratory to grow into with effort and experience.

No question I will also get a smaller pair for that wide swath beauty, probabaly the Resolux 7x50, but that will have to wait a while. For now, it's time to build monopod 1.1 in anticipation of some heavenly crystal clarity. Can't wait!