Basic HEQ5 not worth it?

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Yes planetary imaging makes a big difference.

Still tho! Be aware you are putting a lot of strain on the mount with that setup, going way beyond the recommended weight. This is definitely going to shorten the lifespan of the Mount´s Electronics.

I always found it silly they were selling packages of the C11 with CG-5. As even for pure visual use I would not put more than a C9.25 OTA on such a Mount. (I had the CG5 Mount myself for several years.)

Not even on the new Advanced VX nor the SW HEQ5 Pro.

Pretty much all dedicated planetary imagers who are using a C11 (or even a C9.25) are using the CGEM or NEQ6 Pro Mount as minimum.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Yes planetary imaging makes a big difference.

Still tho! Be aware you are putting a lot of strain on the mount with that setup, going way beyond the recommended weight. This is definitely going to shorten the lifespan of the Mount´s Electronics.

I always found it silly they were selling packages of the C11 with CG-5. As even for pure visual use I would not put more than a C9.25 OTA on such a Mount. (I had the CG5 Mount myself for several years.)

Not even on the new Advanced VX nor the SW HEQ5 Pro.

Pretty much all dedicated planetary imagers who are using a C11 (or even a C9.25) are using the CGEM or NEQ6 Pro Mount as minimum.

I am not sure the electronics would suffer if it is well balanced. Vibration and damping times are the main issues, and I doubt that they would affect the electronics too much. If your set-up is seriously unbalanced you will put a strain on the motors, and to some extent on the power transistors of the motor control unit, even if you are within the weight limits of the scope

[malc-c]

I am not sure the electronics would suffer if it is well balanced. Vibration and damping times are the main issues, and I doubt that they would affect the electronics too much. If your set-up is seriously unbalanced you will put a strain on the motors, and to some extent on the power transistors of the motor control unit, even if you are within the weight limits of the scope

The one advantage the HEQ5 / EQ6 has over Celestron mounts is that Skywatcher use stepper motors to drive the scope.  If the mount is that far out of balance that it puts excessive load on the motors they simply fail to step and the scope won't move.  Agreed it won't do the electronics a lot of good as the current will increase until the motors fail to step, but it wouldn't be as excessive as over driving a DC servo  motor like those employed in the Celestron mounts.

[ianpwilliams]

So everyone would recommend a PRO if I wasn't going down the laptop route? I really couldn't see me using a laptop, because I live in a flat, so setting up the scope, mount and camera would be enough work, without adding a laptop to that. I get the impression that a laptop setup would be better for an observatory.

In which case, that would give me the two (expensive) options of a 150PDS on an EQ5 Pro for £734, or a 200PDS on an HEQ5 Pro for £1,079:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-eq-5-pro-goto.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200pds-heq5-pro.html

[ianpwilliams]

I've just noticed that the 200PDS HEQ5 PRO requires a 12v DC power supply (the 150PDS doesn't mention needing one). Does that really mean that you have to plug into the mains with one or both of these? Because I'm in a second floor flat, so that wouldn't really be an option for me (I just assumed that batteries would do the trick, like they apparently do with the motors).

[sandyshaw]

Is there somewhere else that we can buy good high precision stepper motors at lower cost?

Surely stepper motors are easy to come across without being held hostage to Skywatcher et al.

[Bizibilder]

You would also have to source the control boards and power supplies, wiring etc as well as the gears and other hardware to hold all the bits together.  Overall it would most likely work out more expensive than the standard SW upgrade.

[sandyshaw]

You would also have to source the control boards and power supplies, wiring etc as well as the gears and other hardware to hold all the bits together.  Overall it would most likely work out more expensive than the standard SW upgrade.

And can we buy a high precision motor upgrade package WITHOUT goto?

The only  motor upgrade I see has low precision stepper motors, only SynScan has high precision motors, I can live without GOTO.

[ianpwilliams]

I've checked the downstairs hallway behind the stairs, and there is no wall socket available, so that rules out GOTO as far as I can see. So I guess my options would be a Syntrek with a laptop, but hopefully a cheap light one, unless it can be done without a laptop

[malc-c]

I've just noticed that the 200PDS HEQ5 PRO requires a 12v DC power supply (the 150PDS doesn't mention needing one). Does that really mean that you have to plug into the mains with one or both of these? Because I'm in a second floor flat, so that wouldn't really be an option for me (I just assumed that batteries would do the trick, like they apparently do with the motors).

Both the EQ5 synscan and HEQ5 syntrek / synscan operate from 12v supply.  These can be run from a 13.8v regulated power supply rated at 5amps fed from the mains, or via a portable 3in 1 jump starter costing between £20 - £70 depending on the make and current rating.

As for the comments regarding the stepper motors.  The EQ5 motors have 4505600 micro steps per revolution, giving 0.287642 arc seconds resolution.  The motors fitted to the HEQ5 / EQ6 have greater precision 9024000 micro steps per revolution giving a precision of 0.143617 arc seconds.  Motors of this specification don't come cheap, typically £50 a piece.  Then you need the controller board, and whilst this can be built fairly cheaply using dedicated driver chips, what is not available is the custom firmware that converts the instruction sent via the serial communications port to the drivers so the motors then run the correct number of steps to point the mount to the position of the target.    If you take off the cost of the handset from the HEQ5 synscan upgrade you're left with £177, and I'm sure any DIY motor upgrade that offers the same specification as the skywatcher upgrade would cost you more than this.

[sandyshaw]

Both the EQ5 synscan and HEQ5 syntrek / synscan operate from 12v supply.  These can be run from a 13.8v regulated power supply rated at 5amps fed from the mains, or via a portable 3in 1 jump starter costing between £20 - £70 depending on the make and current rating.

As for the comments regarding the stepper motors.  The EQ5 motors have 4505600 micro steps per revolution, giving 0.287642 arc seconds resolution.  The motors fitted to the HEQ5 / EQ6 have greater precision 9024000 micro steps per revolution giving a precision of 0.143617 arc seconds.  Motors of this specification don't come cheap, typically £50 a piece.  Then you need the controller board, and whilst this can be built fairly cheaply using dedicated driver chips, what is not available is the custom firmware that converts the instruction sent via the serial communications port to the drivers so the motors then run the correct number of steps to point the mount to the position of the target.    If you take off the cost of the handset from the HEQ5 synscan upgrade you're left with £177, and I'm sure any DIY motor upgrade that offers the same specification as the skywatcher upgrade would cost you more than this.

Where can I buy this high precision motor kit WITHOUT handset?

[malc-c]

Where can I buy this high precision motor kit WITHOUT handset?

You can't. (as far as I know).  You can buy just the synscan handset for £148 so you can upgrade a syntrek unit to full goto, but you can't buy just the motors, gears and controller board.  I simply took the £148 off the £325 for the goto upgrade to give a comparison of the cost if you were to try and make a driven mount to the same specification.

[sandyshaw]

You can't. (as far as I know).  You can buy just the synscan handset for £148 so you can upgrade a syntrek unit to full goto, but you can't buy just the motors, gears and controller board.  I simply took the £148 off the £325 for the goto upgrade to give a comparison of the cost if you were to try and make a driven mount to the same specification.

That's the problem, I cannot buy an upgrade without the handset, I am held hostage to the full package or the low precision motors.

Is there any non Skywatcher packages that can be fitted to it? iOptron or something thats cheaper but has high precision steppers with or without handset.

[malc-c]

Not sure if they are still available - but have a read of this threadhttp://stargazerslounge.com/topic/188877-astroeq-for-eq-mounts/ uses cheap NEMA 11 stepper motors for an EQ5.  Still requires a computer running EQMOD, a few quid more than the dual motor upgrade offered by SW, but you'll have better precision and full goto option via a PC

[sandyshaw]

Not sure if they are still available - but have a read of this threadhttp://stargazerslounge.com/topic/188877-astroeq-for-eq-mounts/ uses cheap NEMA 11 stepper motors for an EQ5.  Still requires a computer running EQMOD, a few quid more than the dual motor upgrade offered by SW, but you'll have better precision and full goto option via a PC

Thanks but, I'm looking for a package with high precision motors, seems there is a gap in the market then for people wanting them without handsets.

Is that stuff even CE approved?

[malc-c]

OK, not so cheap...motors not included, but it backs up my previous post - Controller with cables and PSU £100 -  http://www.astroeq.co.uk/purchase.php

2 x NEMA 11 steppers (average price ) - £72

Then you would need to fabricate the brackets, gears or belt drives... so again the cost would be more than the equivalent motors and control board used on the synscan upgrade.  It's just a shame SW don't offer this upgrade without the synscan handset

[malc-c]

Is that stuff even CE approved?

I doubt it... it's made by a SGL member, and I would of thought the cost of testing under the directives (probably two or three modules such as LVD and radio interference) would be too prohibitive. 

[sandyshaw]

OK, not so cheap...motors not included, but it backs up my previous post - Controller with cables and PSU £100 -  http://www.astroeq.co.uk/purchase.php

2 x NEMA 11 steppers (average price ) - £72

Then you would need to fabricate the brackets, gears or belt drives... so again the cost would be more than the equivalent motors and control board used on the synscan upgrade.  It's just a shame SW don't offer this upgrade without the synscan handset

I would like more to have an upgrade package that is affordable rather than a non CE approved homebrew patch job.

[sandyshaw]

I doubt it... it's made by a SGL member, and I would of thought the cost of testing under the directives (probably two or three modules such as LVD and radio interference) would be too prohibitive. 

And does it come with a standard EU 2 year warranty (Electronics in the EU must be 2 years by law)?

[malc-c]

And does it come with a standard EU 2 year warranty (Electronics in the EU must be 2 years by law)?

Which given the cost for testing to be able to mark the product with the CE standard, and offer a suitable warranty, is probably why the skywatcher synscan upgrade is priced at £350.

You've basically answered your own question

[ianpwilliams]

In that case I don't think GOTO is an option for me. A wall socket isn't available, and a portable power supply would be even more to take up and down stairs.

I'm also reluctant to go down the laptop route for the same reason.

The HEQ5 Syntrek blurb says "The HEQ5 SynTrek mount has the same pre-installed stepper-motors, motherboard and ST-4 autoguider port from the PRO SynScan but is supplied with a non-GOTO hand controller that provides slewing controls and automatic tracking of celestial objects. It can also be upgraded to full computerized SynScan GOTO by simply changing the hand control to a SynScan hand control."

So maybe I could go for the 200PDS on an HEQ5 Syntrek, and manually use the handset in combination with the tracker motors for the photography? And if I did start with a more basic setup (150PDS on an EQ5), would I be able to get a handset for that (I don't think it comes with one)?

And if I did go down the laptop route, would a cheap one do the trick? A while ago I was looking at picking up a second-hand old laptop (something like the Dell D110 for £100). Would something like that run the required software?

Also, a complete newbie question, but why is it that in addition to the guiding motors, you also need either GOTO, a laptop, or a manual handset to track an object?

And is it not possible to take lots of photos of an object without tracking it, and then use PC software to stack the images allowing for the movement of it, either manually or automatically?

[malc-c]

Other than using a web cam to capture the moon as it drifts across the field of view you need tracking to do any other form of imaging.  If you polar align the mount correctly you should be able to track an object for some considerable time with an HEQ5 before backlash and other factors come into play, and long enough to take some practical images for stacking.

The reason most people opt for a computer is that it gives more flexibility when it comes to using a guiding set up, where a second scope with a camera fitted tracks a star and makes small corrections to the tracking to keep the target exactly placed for best possible images.  The laptop doesn't need to be an all singing or dancing model.  I've run my mount from a small acer netbook, although guiding pushed it to it's max limit.

[sandyshaw]

Which given the cost for testing to be able to mark the product with the CE standard, and offer a suitable warranty, is probably why the skywatcher synscan upgrade is priced at £350.

You've basically answered your own question

But there exists NO option except buy SYNSCAN handset in order to get high precision motors, I would like the motor upgrade like the low precision just with high precision.

Btw CE approval only has to be done on one item, sent for test. Not every produced item

The high price is due to middle men, "authorised" distributors taking their cut and the questionable practice of price setting by manufacturers, called MRP/RRP

If somebody can come up with a high precision package without handset, I am very sure it would sell like hotcakes.

[ianpwilliams]

Is there a link which goes through the basics of photography? I don't understand the differences between GOTO, PC software such as AstroEQ, guiding motors, hand controllers, guide telescopes, and so on. I'm sure it's all explained in that photon book, but I don't ti buy that until I know that photography is actually an option.

[sandyshaw]

Is there a link which goes through the basics of photography? I don't understand the differences between GOTO, PC software such as AstroEQ, guiding motors, hand controllers, guide telescopes, and so on. I'm sure it's all explained in that photon book, but I don't ti buy that until I know that photography is actually an option.

http://www.astropix.com/HTML/I_ASTROP/TOC_AP.HTM