Helios Apollo 15x85

[spike95609]

Hi. I'm new to astronomy other than looking up at the sky with some cheap hand-held bins, and I'd like to buy some quality large binoculars mounted on a tripod for deep sky viewing. My benchmark was the Helios Quantum 4 20x90 as it seemed a good half-way house between magnification and light gathering, but I've since decided that if I'm going to spend £250, I may as well pay a bit more and get something truly spectacular. I'm currently thinking about the Helios Apollo 15x85, as from what I've read the optics are far superior and I believe they make the sky light up with that somewhat huge exit pupil. Okay it's a smaller magnification, but I'd rather have a sharper and more detailed image than a dimmer one that's slightly larger. I've no great experience with binoculars though so I'd welcome any views on this choice. Is it a good one for deep sky objects?

The second question is what do I mount them on? They're 4.8kg, and although the Horizon 8115 tripod legs will take the weight the consensus seems to be that the head would not. I was thinking about buying the Horizon and replacing the head with the Manfrotto 502AH video head. Or would the Manfrotto 055XproB be a better choice for the legs? Of course I understand that the big daddy of them all is the Manfrotto 475B, I am prepared to pay that much if I really have to but I'm looking for good reasons to talk myself out of it as I think I'm spending quite enough already. Is the 475 overkill or will I regret not having it?

Oh and I'd just like to extend a general thank you to everyone on this forum. I've been researching binoculars on and off for a few months, and this site has cropped up again and again, giving me lots of useful things to think about which I haven't found elsewhere.

Cheers,

Mark

[neilm]

Mark,

I succumbed to the binocular aperture fever and bought the Apollo 15x85, terrific binoculars but they are heavy! I have a manfrotto 055XPROB tripod and manfrotto 372RC2 head neither of which are exactly the cheap end of the market. However, even with a top end tripod and head it’s all still a bit unstable and as a result I was more likely to grab my 15x70 Quantum 4 for a bit of observing, nowhere near the  same optical quality but easier to handle.

Eventually I decided that they weren’t getting any use at all which is sad so I put them up for sale on SGL and did a swap for a pair of Apollo 10.5x70 which from a usability point of view are much much better with the same quality optics. The tripod and head easily cope with these and I’ve even invested in a monopod which is so much more portable.

So in summary, if I was starting over again I’d go for the Apollo 10.5x70 or 15x70, a monopod and trigger grip over the 15x85.

Cheers

Neil

[Damo636]

Hi Mark & welcome to the forum!

In answer to your first question, the 15x85 Apollo would be an excellent performer. I've owned the 22x85 but didn't keep it long as I felt it wasn't as sharp as the 15x70 of the same range. The 15x85 however has the same eyepieces as my 20x110 and it's really sharp! Regarding exit pupil, here is a good article....

http://www.garyseronik.com/?q=node/13

The Horizon tripod will get you out if you want to save a few quid but the head will need replacing for a 15x85 Apollo. (To be honest, I couldn't wait to get shot of the thing!) However, the Manfrotto 475 is vastly superior in every department (as it should at over twice the cost!) The 055 will easily handle the weight but doesn't have a geared centre column so I wouldn't recommend it. The 502 AH /475 is a great combo! I had the 22x85 on it, and once balanced correctly, handled it well. The 501 HDV would also be a good match if you could find one.

Lots of useful info here on choosing, mounting & using....

http://binocularsky.com/

[spike95609]

Thanks for the comments. Yes I got an insight into the weight of the 15x85's by lifting three tubs of margarine with a couple of bags of sugar on top to replicate 5kg. My word that was impressive!

The article about exit pupils was most interesting. I assume then that it wouldn't apply in a choice between the 15x70 and 15x85 because they're the same magnification only the 85s are bringing in more light. I had at first considered the 22x85 Damo, but I read your experiences of it and that of a few others and these convinced me that it was a bad idea, which is a shame because that would seem to be an ideal middle range choice.

I'm chiefly interested in the 15x85 on the understanding that they'll bring in a lot more light than the 15x70s and so give much more impressive views. Sadly I've been unable to find reviews by someone who has seen through both so I don't know how they compare. If there's not a huge difference between the two then I guess the 15x70 would be the better option because they can be cheaply mounted. The weight of the 15x85 nigh on doubles the cost for a complete setup from something like £400 to £700+. So if there's not so much to be gained by the 85s over the 70s, perhaps I should go with the 70s and maybe consider something much bigger and heavier at a later time if I feel that I need it?

[spike95609]

Just to sort of conclude this thread, I think I've decided on what I'm going to go for and it's the exact opposite of what I said I was going to do. Instead of a bigger bino with a mount that I can just about get away with, I'm going to go for a big mount and a smaller bino. So the Helios Apollo 15x70 mounted on a Manfrotto 475B, probably with the 502AH fluid head.

The tripod is obviously well above and beyond what the 15x70 needs, but my reasoning is that in the likely event of my wanting to up-gun to a 25x100 or something along those lines in the future, I'll only have to buy the binocular, and not another tripod to support it. I'm going for the 15x70 over the 15x85 because this is my first serious binocular, and with its fine lenses and wide FOV it will help me find my way around the night sky and will be a fine introduction. So why not the 15x85 if it's a bit better? Well on the assumption that I do get something bigger in the future, I think the 15x85 will be somewhat redundant alongside something similarly heavy but with more aperture and magnification. Whereas the 15x70 will always be a useful tool to have to hand, especially if I get a monopod for grab and go purposes. Does this sound like a plan?

[Damo636]

Sounds like a good plan to me! The 15x70 is superb and deserves a nice stable platform such as the Manfrotto combo mentioned!

I look forward to your first light report and obligatory pictures

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The 15x70 is a great choice. Regarding mounting them, I prefer a parallelogram mount to a regular one. Monopods with ball heads and pistol grip are also a popular choice. Both options allow more freedom of motion, especially near zenith.

[spike95609]

A parallelogram mount may well come into play at some point, I'll see just how badly my neck hurts to start off with and how comfortably I can seat myself in amongst the tripod legs. By the way are there any good alternatives to the Manfrotto 502AH head before I go ahead and buy all this? It all looks more than fine for the 15x70, but if I upgrade at a later date I'm wondering how well it will stand something of the 5-7kg variety, apparently it's only supposed to hold 4kg. Is there anything beefier at a similar price? Basically all I want is good control over the movement of the binocular and the ability to go up to +90 degrees. Whether my head can go up to +90 is another matter, but it's nice to know the possibility is there.

[Damo636]

The 501HDV has a higher rated capacity, 16lbs if memory serves me right, and was what I originally wanted for my bins (discontinued) . After a little research i learned that the 502 AH replaced the 501 but had a smaller load capacity. I contacted Big Binocular in the USA after reading on their website that they actually rated the 502 at 16lb......

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/501.htm

They replied that the 502, in their opinion, was rated very conservatively and stood by their claim that it would handle a 16lb instrument. I took them at their word and ordered the 502 the next day. As I posted earlier, it handled the 10.5lb 22x85 Apollo with relative ease, so would have no problems with any of the 25x100 Chinese offerings. Personally though, having used my 16lb 20x110 on it (while I built the P-mount), I feel that 16lb, although useable,  does overload the head. (Still doesn't stop me using it as a grab n go set up though  )......

[spike95609]

Okay, 502 it is then. I had done some looking around myself and got the impression that some thought it could handle a bit more than was admitted to. If I do upgrade the binoculars at some point I have an eye on the 20 or 28x110 as they seem an obvious step up from the 15x85s - hence their being redundant if I bought those now. Or possibly the Quantum 6.3 if I decide that I need angled eye pieces. It's a lot more expensive, but lighter.

Thanks for all your help on this. I can look at all the statistics and prices I want, but it's no substitute for the opinion of someone who has used all this stuff.

[Damo636]

If you intend sticking with the tripod and head approach, definitely consider instruments with angled eyepieces. Although I do use the above on occasion (mainly with the 15x70), straight through bins really need a Parallelogram mount to get the best from them. I don't even bother with targets above 50-60° as its just to uncomfortable & unwieldy as you fight for space with the tripod. With the P-mount, whether it be standing or seated (I prefer the former), targets at high elevation become a "whole" lot easier! I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to talk you out of the tripod/fluid head approach, just to be aware that it has it's limitations with straight through instruments.

[spike95609]

Yes I'm expecting it to be a problem. I'll see how I go with the 15x70s this way, and that should give me an idea what it will be like to do the same thing with something that's bigger and heavier. On paper the 28x110 would be perfect for me I think, but if angled eyepieces are needed I'll have to save the pennies for the Quantum 6. But that's for the future!

[spike95609]

I've ordered stuff. Everything bar the tripod is currently in the post so hopefully it'll all be here next week. A few piccies and my amateur impressions of it all will no doubt follow.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Looking forward to your first-light report