Which webcam?

[BritAngler]

Very soon I will be buying a webcam to start AP with, and am considering these two (the first will need modifying, the second is designed for AP)....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Official-Xbox-Vision-Camera-Webcam/dp/B0056Z3YC0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=UFCWF7IU8Y3A&coliid=I17N2YKWDHOI3V

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Telescope-Digital-Eyepiece-Sensor-Telescope-1280x1024/dp/B008NJMIY6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=UFCWF7IU8Y3A&coliid=I30LZ2OWEZMTHX

I will be wanting to take photo's of DSO's as well as the moon and planets, so if neither of those are adequate, can anyone suggest a good (and reasonably cheap) cam that will do the job?

Many thanks in advance

[lensman57]

,

Very soon I will be buying a webcam to start AP with, and am considering these two (the first will need modifying, the second is designed for AP)....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Official-Xbox-Vision-Camera-Webcam/dp/B0056Z3YC0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=UFCWF7IU8Y3A&coliid=I17N2YKWDHOI3V

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Telescope-Digital-Eyepiece-Sensor-Telescope-1280x1024/dp/B008NJMIY6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=UFCWF7IU8Y3A&coliid=I30LZ2OWEZMTHX

I will be wanting to take photo's of DSO's as well as the moon and planets, so if neither of those are adequate, can anyone suggest a good (and reasonably cheap) cam that will do the job?

Many thanks in advance

Hi,

I started with an X box, then a more up to date version of the ICX908, then a PX75C and then an ASI 120MM. With the benfit of hindsight I should have just waited a bit and spent the money on the ASI 120. I would advise you to save up and go for a dedicated planetary camera. The X box is cheap so it will not break the bank but it is very limited and you will soon want to upgrade. The 200p @F5 is fast so even an insensitive X box will probably give acceptable results particularly with Moon and Jupiter.

A.G

[BritAngler]

Thanks A.G, will have a look at the ASI

[BritAngler]

Can't edit my post

Had a look at the ASI. It's about 5x more than I can afford at the moment, and I'd also like to give AP a go with a cheaper cam first to see how things go. It's a pity the Philips SPC900NC isn't made any more, I've seen clips on youtube on modding and using it

[Kropster]

Amazed to see the Xbox cam at that price.

I got one last year for about £2.50.... must be in short supply.

[Bungielad]

The spc900nc Phillips webcam comes up every now and then on eBay.....keep your eye out, I got mine for £40

Bungielad.

[JamesF]

i'd have thought your Nikon would be more appropriate for DSO imaging.  Few "webcam" type cameras support the long exposures required to allow it and the small sensor can mean a very narrow field of view.

The Xbox camera is ok for a very basic planetary imaging camera, but far from stunning.  If you're looking to spend around the £50 to £60 mark I'd watch out for used SPC900s.  I don't think you'll find anything else for that kind of money that is as good.  ZWO have a new ASI034MC model out which is somewhat cheaper than the 120, but may still be a bit above budget.  It looks promising on paper, but I've not seen any reviews yet.

James

[BritAngler]

I like the look of the AS1034MC even with the restricted long-exposure speed, but wouldn't I be able to take the 20+ photo's needed with a program like Sharpcap to produce good images of DSO's?

[riklaunim]

None of the planetary cameras is efficient at DSO imaging. Webcams or quasi-cameras (second of your links) and even worse at that (quasi-cameras usually suck at planetary imaging too). Noise and image quality will be extremely bad.

Some people are able to use top planetary cameras for some specific DS imaging (planetary nebulae, globular clusters etc.) using many frames at few sec exposures. Needs popper scope and usually a lot of processing. It would be much better to use a DSLR for DS imaging and planetary camera to guide the telescope when doing DS imaging.

[JamesF]

I like the look of the AS1034MC even with the restricted long-exposure speed, but wouldn't I be able to take the 20+ photo's needed with a program like Sharpcap to produce good images of DSO's?

You seem to be confusing planetary/solar system imaging with DSO imaging.

As a general rule, planetary imaging uses large numbers of frames taken at a high frame rate and at a large focal length, often with a small sensor or using only part of the image on the sensor.  This is generally where SharpCap and FireCapture get used.

DSO imaging usually uses much longer exposures, typically minutes or even tens of minutes, with a large image sensor and at short focal lengths.  With Canon DSLRs people often use APT or BYE for this, but there are other applications for dedicated astro cameras too.

It's uncommon (though not impossible) to use planetary cameras/webcams for DSO imaging because they give such a narrow field of view and (some) don't offer such large exposure times.  CMOS cameras in my experience tend to be noticeably noisier than CCDs at long exposures too, which is not really desirable.

These are not hard and fast rules, but they're probably reasonable ones to start with.

James

[Kirscovitch]

Is it possible to get passable images of brighter DSO's like M31 with a webcam? 

[JamesF]

Is it possible to get passable images of brighter DSO's like M31 with a webcam? 

I'd suggest that it's unlikely.  Your scope has a focal length of 650mm.  That means that at the focal plane you have about 320 arcseconds of sky per mm of focal plane.  A webcam type camera is likely to be at the very most 6.5mm across the diagonal, giving you an absolute maximum field of view of about 2000 arcseconds, or 34 arcminutes -- just over half a degree.  Along the short side of the sensor that's more likely to be about a third of a degree.  M31 is about three degrees across.  That's going to be quite some mosaic to attempt

I'd suggest that if you really do want to try imaging DSOs with a webcam, the most likely targets are globular clusters.

I think the easiest way to get an image of M31 is probably using a DSLR and 200mm or at most 300mm lens on a tracking EQ mount with an exposure time of four to five minutes per sub.

James

[BritAngler]

Like most of you, I want to do planetary/lunar plus DSO imaging, and thought that taking dozens of (fairly) short exposures plus darks via a webcam would suffice for both . I guess then that a decent cam for planetary stuff, and my Nikon (which isn't very heavy compared to many other DSLR's) for the DSO stuff would be best.

[makapala]

I recommend a dslr such as my nikon d5100 with small refractor or zoom for large objects like m31 - it's more important to have an accurate tracking mount than the actual lens or scope. I have an asi 120 and huge c11 scope on a sturdy mount for planetary. ASI 120 is good enough or Damian Peach, so it's good enough for us mere mortals

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