need some help with skywatcher 130m synscan AZ

[coewem]

hello all , i'm jo and i live in belgium ,i'm fairly new to astronomy but its been a dream for 14 years now. sinds 2 weeks i have a skywatcher 130m synscan AZ , putting it together was easy and the instructions were clear , 2 nights ago i got my first try , clear sky's , the allignment worked perfectly.

with the telescope came an 25mm wide angle and 10mm eyepiece en also a barlow lens 2x , as an extra i bought the planetary HR6 6mm for observing planets , i first put in the barlow lens and then the 25mm wide angle eyepiece , i got some great views of the moon and then i took a look at saturn , it was fairly small so i replaced the 25mm with the 10mm , it was somewhat bigger and i was able to get a sharp view.

now i replaced the 10mm with the HR6 6mm eyepiece , stil with the barlow lens 2x , i tought i would get a good image but i saw almost nothing , all black , eventually i found saturn but is was very blury , i couldent focus it right , there is a focus on a scope and the eyepiece?...

so here are my questions , i googled most of my questions but these i cant find a good answer

-what focus should i use? , the scope or HR6 (i think its a focus on the HR6 , there wasnt a manual with it)

-when looking at the moon , its painfull for my eyes for a while , is there something to prevent this?

-do i need to use my barlow lens 2x with every eyepiece or not?

-is the standard barlow lens x2 you get with the scope good enough ?

-there are stars and plantes in the synscan Goto , i mainly want to see planets but also nebula , but these arent in the Goto , there are catalogues in the Goto but how does it work exactly?

-when i want to look at a planet is it right to first use the 25mm and then center the object , replace it with the 100mm and center it again and then use the 6mm?

thank you and sorry about my english , i try my best

[Laurie61]

Your 130m has a 900mm focal length and with the 6mm eyepiece and barlow gives around 300 X magnification. I think this is a bit high for your scope? You will find things look better if you stay around 200 X or so. Also the seeing conditions will affect views at higher magnifications and this might have been contributing to your problems. Try the 6mm without the barlow, should give you a nice view of Saturn if its not too low.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I agree with Laurie. The magnification with the 6mm+2x barlow is too much.

[ronin]

If you can try a 8mm or 10mm plossl, borrow one if you can. The supplied eyepieces are not a good design neither is the supplied barlow any better. 6mm+barlow will be too much magnification on that scope, not helped as it is I think a spherical mirror.

For Saturn a magnification of around 120x is pretty good which with a 900mm focal length sits about right for an 8mm eyepiece.

Concerning the goto data: I would guess that DSO's are by Messier or NGC reference. Guessing that one of the headings is Deep Sky Objects and under this is Messier and NGC headings and that you enter the appropriate number. So Andromeda would be Deep Sky > Messier > 31 or M31

Stars I would expect some to be named but a lot will be listed by the SAO number. Find this on my Meade and it really is a pain in the rear as some obvious ones are not in the named list and I know the name but not the SAO reference.

The work down the eyepieces for planets exactly matches mine so I think it is close to perfection.

As to English - you only used "en" once instead of "and". :grin: :grin:

When I tried to learn Dutch it drove one teacher mad over one simple easy word. He never understood that we would probably never manage it. It wasn't pronouncing it is was simply using it in the context.

[lensman57]

hello all , i'm jo and i live in belgium ,i'm fairly new to astronomy but its been a dream for 14 years now. sinds 2 weeks i have a skywatcher 130m synscan AZ , putting it together was easy and the instructions were clear , 2 nights ago i got my first try , clear sky's , the allignment worked perfectly.

with the telescope came an 25mm wide angle and 10mm eyepiece en also a barlow lens 2x , as an extra i bought the planetary HR6 6mm for observing planets , i first put in the barlow lens and then the 25mm wide angle eyepiece , i got some great views of the moon and then i took a look at saturn , it was fairly small so i replaced the 25mm with the 10mm , it was somewhat bigger and i was able to get a sharp view.

now i replaced the 10mm with the HR6 6mm eyepiece , stil with the barlow lens 2x , i tought i would get a good image but i saw almost nothing , all black , eventually i found saturn but is was very blury , i couldent focus it right , there is a focus on a scope and the eyepiece?...

so here are my questions , i googled most of my questions but these i cant find a good answer

-what focus should i use? , the scope or HR6 (i think its a focus on the HR6 , there wasnt a manual with it)

-when looking at the moon , its painfull for my eyes for a while , is there something to prevent this?

-do i need to use my barlow lens 2x with every eyepiece or not?

-is the standard barlow lens x2 you get with the scope good enough ?

-there are stars and plantes in the synscan Goto , i mainly want to see planets but also nebula , but these arent in the Goto , there are catalogues in the Goto but how does it work exactly?

-when i want to look at a planet is it right to first use the 25mm and then center the object , replace it with the 100mm and center it again and then use the 6mm?

thank you and sorry about my english , i try my best

Hi,

Lets start from the begining, the 25 mm eyepiece supplied is not exactly state of the art but is fine for the caliber of your scope, 6 mm is just about on the limit of the usable magnification of your scope if your sky is really dark and the seeing is very steady otherwise a magnification of about 90~120 is about the max the scope can handle for normal seeing conditions. I would not use the supplied Barlow lens as it is a cheap two element design. Save up for a decent 2X ~2.5X Barlow, they cost anywhere from £40.00~£290.00 here in the UK and then you can use it with lets say a decent 15 mm EP . When you purchase a Barlow you need to consider the EPs you already have, so you do not end up with the same magnification, no point having a 15 mm EP, a 2X Barlow and a 7.5 mm EP as well, the 2X Barlow will give you the 7.5mm focal length with the 15 mm EP. I don't know what you mean by focusing but there are a number of ways you could aid your focusing, the most popular aid is a Bahtinov mask, you can purchase or make one from thin plywood of plastic. You need to down load a mask generator software and the masks are aperture specific. You need to read about them and their use. The best way of focusing on a planet is to use a Bahtinov mask and focus on a star very near to your planet, in Feburary I used Spica to focus on and then slewed for Saturn, Bahtinov can not be focused on a planet BTW but a pinpoint light source. For moon observations you need either a moon filter ( most amateur telescopes usually come with a cheap but usable one) or a neutral density filter as the Moon is very bright as you have found out. As for DSO observations, download a free programm such as Cares du Ciel, and use the software to find the DSO you wish to observe, most DSOs are usually near a recognisable star and the software will show you these stars. Once you have aligned your mount accurately then slew the mount towards the star that is near your target. Use the "name star " button on your hand set to slew to the star . Once you have centered the star you can use the object NGC, Messier or IC no on the hand set to go to the target from the star position, use a wide angle EP such as either a 30mm or your 25 mm to have a wide field view of the sky near the target and then home in with a slightly more powerful EP but most DSOs show much better with a good wide angle EP rather than a narrow angle high power one due to the small aperture of your scope, remember these DSOs are very faint and for God's sake do not expect to see anything like what you see in the Deep Sky Astrophotography, you will see very little detail even in a largeish scope and almost no colour, you may need to use averted vision to glimpse the really faint stuff. The use of a UHC nebula filter sometimes helps so long as the scope can draw in eough light and that means large aperture. Hope this helps a bit and enjoy your new hobby.

Regards,

A.G

[LukeSkywatcher]

I agree with Ronin. An 8-10mm eyepiece will give really nice views of the inner planets. I basically observe the planets with an 8-10mm no matter what size scope i use.

The 8mm Vixen NPL is a great one and costs something like 30-40 pounds.

[coewem]

hello all , thx for the greeaat replies !!! i just took an hour to look at the nightsky and used the 6mm without the barlow , i got a greaaaat view of saturn with it , looked at it for 10 minutes or so

i got great looks with the 25mm and the barlow of the moon , despite that you guys say its bad quality i'm very glad of what i see , love the detail... so i dont think i will buy better soon , first learn more about the nightsky

i found a moonfilter in one of my eyepieceboxes , it says ''moon'' on the side so i think its a moonfilter , not sure how to implement the filter yet...

tried to take a look at M31 and M42 but both places was nothing to see , only a star in the neigberhood but i diddnt saw anything i hope jupiter is up soon

so i ques the HR6 will be the best magnification i would get (without barlow) or will the barlow+ 8mm will be better?

[Laurie61]

Your Moon filter should screw onto the bottom of the eyepiece, you only need it when using lower magnifications and when the image is bright. Higher mag will dim the view and a filter is not needed. An 8mm eyepiece and barlow will give 225X in your scope which is probably a bit too much. With your scope I would want to maximise the wide field/low mag capability's and would be looking for a reasonable 32mm eyepiece.

[PlanetGazer]

According to supplier for 130M

• Highest Practical Power (Potential): x260
  

[coewem]

today i got a GREAT look at saturn with a 6mm eyepiece and 2x barlow , i could see it is against the limit of the scope because it was hard the get a sharp image , thx for all the help

[m37]

-there are stars and plantes in the synscan Goto , i mainly want to see planets but also nebula , but these arent in the Goto , there are catalogues in the Goto but how does it work exactly?

I am very new also but I have the Synscan AZ goto like yours. Bit tricky to start with but there are lots of posts on this forum that give you tips. Roughly the process is:

1. get your mount level

2. make sure all the time/date/location is set correctly in the handset

3. pick a star to align to and do the alignment as well as you can

4. pick a star that's far away from the first one and get as close as you can

5. test the alignment on a few bright stars and fine tune it as much as you can (press ESC and then hold ESC, center object with the arrow keys and press enter)

6. ask around here for some easy nebula to look at, they will have an M number which is their number in the 'Messier' catalogue. e.g. M39 is a nice open cluster which I seem to be able to find quite easily

When you said the focus on the scope or the HR6, I think the HR6 eyepiece has a screw in out eyecup (rubber bit) to make it more comfortable for you. If so, this is not a focus it just moves the rubber bit to where it suits you best.

thanks

Christoph

oh, and your English is great, much better than my French, German, Dutch, Flemish, Walloon etc

-when i want to look at a planet is it right to first use the 25mm and then center the object , replace it with the 100mm and center it again and then use the 6mm?

[PlanetGazer]

What if he tries the 10 mm with a good 2x barlow , shouldn't that give a magnification of 180 which is better than the 6 mm without the barlow?

[lensman57]

.

According to supplier for 130M

• Highest Practical Power (Potential): x260
  

That is a theoretical limit based on the size of the aperture, nominal not actual, and the theoretical resolving power of the mirror or the lens at that aperture. This figure is misleading as the practical resolution depends on a number of factors including the seeing conditions and does not take into account the obstruction of the secondary mirror and the sebsequent loss of contrast even under ideal seeing conditions. In the UK the accepted magnification per inch of aperture under good seeing condition is about 25X~30X per inch of aperture. The seeing conditions are rarely that good so a practical limit is about 25X which means that for a 130mm scope it is about 125X~150X max. An Apochromatic scope of the same aperture would struggle to resolve anymore detail beyond 200X given that it has no obstructing mirror and it costs over twenty times the price of a 130p. Last April on a very good evening with steady seeing I struggled to resolve anymore detail on Saturn using my 4" F9 Apo refractor a 2.5X TeleVue powermate and a 15mm Apo Eyepiece, that is about 150X, I could use a more powerful eyepiece but I would not get anymore resolution or detail, just a bigger fuzzy image.

Regards,

A.G

[AlexB67]

hello all , thx for the greeaat replies !!! i just took an hour to look at the nightsky and used the 6mm without the barlow , i got a greaaaat view of saturn with it , looked at it for 10 minutes or so

i got great looks with the 25mm and the barlow of the moon , despite that you guys say its bad quality i'm very glad of what i see , love the detail... so i dont think i will buy better soon , first learn more about the nightsky

i found a moonfilter in one of my eyepieceboxes , it says ''moon'' on the side so i think its a moonfilter , not sure how to implement the filter yet...

tried to take a look at M31 and M42 but both places was nothing to see , only a star in the neigberhood but i diddnt saw anything i hope jupiter is up soon

so i ques the HR6 will be the best magnification i would get (without barlow) or will the barlow+ 8mm will be better?

Glad you liked it, it was also my first reaction using the barlow on the moon, I just got the cheap sky-watcher deluxe. That being said you will notice in time that cheaper barlows will reduce contrast quite a bit, and that it also increases light loss. On Saturn the loss in quality is visible, and particularly when it comes to DSO viewing, the fainter objects it really begins to show. I can make a reasonable comparison for example using my BST 15mm with 2x barlow, or using the 8mm BST only, the latter wins hands down in providing a better image.

It is not often I find I need a barlow viewing DSOs with the eyepieces I have now, so I rarely use mine anyway these days, but the for Moon/saturn I'll pop it in sometimes, if skies allow for the higher mags

In terms of thinking ahead. if you like the idea of Barlows. I'd get an upgrade decent quality one and bear in mind to not expand your eyepiece collection so that you end up with magnifications that the barlow/eyepiece combination can provide for you.

Sorry, I somehow missed a chunk of what Lensman already said it in his informative post, he already covered anyway

[PlanetGazer]

.

That is a theoretical limit based on the size of the aperture, nominal not actual, and the theoretical resolving power of the mirror or the lens at that aperture. This figure is misleading as the practical resolution depends on a number of factors including the seeing conditions and does not take into account the obstruction of the secondary mirror and the sebsequent loss of contrast even under ideal seeing conditions. In the UK the accepted magnification per inch of aperture under good seeing condition is about 25X~30X per inch of aperture. The seeing conditions are rarely that good so a practical limit is about 25X which means that for a 130mm scope it is about 125X~150X max. An Apochromatic scope of the same aperture would struggle to resolve anymore detail beyond 200X given that it has no obstructing mirror and it costs over twenty times the price of a 130p. Last April on a very good evening with steady seeing I struggled to resolve anymore detail on Saturn using my 4" F9 Apo refractor a 2.5X TeleVue powermate and a 15mm Apo Eyepiece, that is about 150X, I could use a more powerful eyepiece but I would not get anymore resolution or detail, just a bigger fuzzy image.

Regards,

A.G

So I guess i would be pushing it to the limit if I used a 5mm eyepice, since it gives 180x. Any reccomendations for comfy 6mm?

Good informative post, AG. Thanks

[PlanetGazer]

today i got a GREAT look at saturn with a 6mm eyepiece and 2x barlow , i could see it is against the limit of the scope because it was hard the get a sharp image , thx for all the help

This is way over the theoretical limit! with 6+x2 you are tying a 300x magnification. and by the way, how much did you pay to get the 6mm and the moon filter?

[coewem]

This is way over the theoretical limit! with 6+x2 you are tying a 300x magnification. and by the way, how much did you pay to get the 6mm and the moon filter?

the moonfilter came with the packet , the 6mm costs 50 euro , yesterday i got a great shot with the 6+x2 on jupiter , my first look was good , i saw the moons , the only thing wrong with it that i diddnt saw any detail

this was what i saw

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dave.woods/astropics/old/jup-moons.jpg

i diddnt use any filter , anyone know how i can see more detail ?

i guess the best time to look at planets is when they are closest to earth , i'm looking for a site where i can find dates when planets are very close to earth , havent found them yet

the 300x magnification is the limit but i can stil focus quite good

[ronin]

For "dates" when planets are closest to the earth try:

Simulator

Basically zoom out or in and run the thing until whatever planet is in a line with us and the sun, easy to see and stop it and read the date. Accurate enough for what we need, and can be more fun then a table of dates.

Quite important is how high up the required planet manages to gets, clearer view.

[PlanetGazer]

For "dates" when planets are closest to the earth try:

Simulator

Basically zoom out or in and run the thing until whatever planet is in a line with us and the sun, easy to see and stop it and read the date. Accurate enough for what we need, and can be more fun then a table of dates.

Quite important is how high up the required planet manages to gets, clearer view.

I prefer this one http://www.theplanetstoday.com

I'm not sure why the telscope is not working for you, coewem. I'm sure others will help.

[Manu72]

Hello everyone,

I'm pretty much interested in this scope too (Skywatcher 130 Synscan Az) and I read this topic with great interest, but it did left me with a big question:

It actually is a fast newton 130/650 F5 and not a 130/900 F7 one, isn't it?

If so the magnification for 6mm+2x barlow is only 216 and the poor quality of seeing is probably due to poor barlow / poor seeing conditions / lack of colimation or a combination of some of all of those.

[coewem]

Hello everyone,

I'm pretty much interested in this scope too (Skywatcher 130 Synscan Az) and I read this topic with great interest, but it did left me with a big question:

It actually is a fast newton 130/650 F5 and not a 130/900 F7 one, isn't it?

If so the magnification for 6mm+2x barlow is only 216 and the poor quality of seeing is probably due to poor barlow / poor seeing conditions / lack of colimation or a combination of some of all of those.

i love my telescope , i still have to learn many things but i have had some great times with it allready

one more question : jupiter and saturn are bright objects and you can see them good in the night sky , i was trying to look at uranus and neptune but i can't find them when my scope stop's on the position i don't see much