How can i improve my Saturn viewing

[Luna Unicorn]

Hi

I saw Saturn for the second time last night.the first time made me cry even though it was not great quality as the wind had just picked up.

Last night night there was no wind and it was about 10 pm. And it took a while to find even though I had it in the finder scope no problem. i find it really hard to track. it was very wobbly and moved so quick.any advice to stop it being wobbly.also it was pretty tiny so I would like to increase the magnification.

I have a explorer 150pl and used the combinations of thd lens and eye pieces supplied: 25 eye relief and 2x Barlow and a 10mm.

Im ready to get better quality eye pieces but not sure!

Thanks

Luna

[ronin]

The 150PL should be good for Saturn, if you went for another eyepiece specifically for Saturn then consider the BST Starguider at 8mm. I half suspect that the eyepieces supplied are modified kelners and really are of little use except to enable you to use the scope when you first get it.

As to stabil;ity I assume that the scope is in an EQ mount ??? so simply a better heavier and more stable mount. Manufacturers will put the OTA on the most least capable mount to keep costs down.

To keep it in view you need a mount that tracks and you have to set it up at least reasonable.

Other factors, a reflector is generally said to have less contrast then a refractor, this could mean that the image does not come through as sharp as you may expect, collimation is a factor in this

Concerning size, Saturn is smaller then Jupiter and further away, so it will be smaller. Whether a 5mm BST would be usable in your scope, for more magnification, I am not sure. I would say you would get more magnification at the cost of some detail. It all depends on which impacts on you. I would rather a smaller sharper image, others would prefer the bigger slightly lower contrast image.

Saturn may well be bright enough to produce diffraction spikes from the secondary supports.

[bod00]

Hi Luna,

I am getting that same scope on tuesday so i am hoping to improve my view of saturn myself!, i have the BST Ep range and from personal experience and recommendations from the forum they are the ones to go for if you have a budget of around £50 per EP!

The 8 mm is probably the one to go for as this will give 150x mag in your scope and in UK weather probably close to the viewing limit (some people say that 200x is usable but i have no experience as such!)

the 5mm you are probably getting using the 10mm and the barlow will be around 240x mag which is way to much and as ronin says the quality of these EP's isn't great either!

my advice is either a 8mm BST or if you wanted to really push it possibly a 7mm but maybe something like the celestron X-cel LX maybe

you could if you wanted to stick with the BST range get the 15mm and use a good quality barlow which may give you a better image but if you are experiencing wobbling then a barlow might not be the best choice as this will just make it worse!

i am no expert but from my little experience and a lot of time on the forums this seems to be the advice i have picked up!

good luck i will message you after i get mine if you would like a report with the 8mm BST?

[wookie1965]

I have the 150p and have seen Saturn really good with my 8 mm BST i have even Barlowed it with the supplied Barlow which wasn't bad, i want the 5mm BST now as this will give me 150x mag which would give me good views.

[gazza63]

Hi Luna

I have the same scope. As to viewing saturn i use a 7.5 super plossl lens (without barlow), giving me 160x magnification and get pretty good sharp views. Bear in mind Saturn is quite small through any telescope, its the detail that is more important in viewing it.

Hope this helps?

Gary

[umadog]

You will learn to track at high power over time. Having a motorised mount helps but it's not necessary. Probably at least half the people in this hobby are using non-motorised mounts. The wobbliness will obviously be fixed by buying a more stable mount, but it should also be possible to modify what you have to make it more stable. e.g. try using a seat and not extending the legs. Suspend a heavy water-filled container from the middle of the EQ head. Turn the slow-motion knobs using flexible handles so you're not touching the mount directly. Observe when it's not windy. Lots of solutions.

You should expect the images to look small. The atmosphere doesn't support over 200x on most nights and your scope won't doll out more than about 40x per inch (being conservative) so there are upper limits to what you can do. To get the scope giving its best at higher powers you should make sure it's well collimated. Your reflector will dish out views that are close in contrast to a refractor. Don't worry about it being a Newtonian.

[Qualia]

Within reason, any quality EP that produces sharp, on-axis views will do a very nice job at planetary viewing, but most dedicated folk would agree that within this department, a decent Ortho is hard to beat. The Ortho route might be termed the 'purist-route', where the least number of glass elements is used to reduce interference and hopefully - all thinks being equal - render a brighter image. Unfortunately, Orthos have small eye lens, so eye relief can be a tad tight for some, and, again, AFOV is usually quite slight at 45 degrees or so.

It is for this reason, for example, that many other people prefer to choose wider field EPs for their planetary viewing, for hopefully, with these type of EPs, eye-relief is more comfortable and due to the larger AFOV, one doesn't have to be constantly turning their slow motion controls or nudging their dob scope. So, again, from this perspective there's nothing wrong with using a quality, wide field for planetary.

The first thing I'd say, then, is that the eyepiece best for planetary is the eyepiece that caters for how you enjoy viewing.

The second thing that springs to mind is that unlike many other objects, for planetary and Lunar work, we often want to get as much quality-sharp-magnification as possible but this requirement is very dependent on a given night's seeing conditions. Since seeing varies so much from season to season, night to night, folk who like viewing planets and the Moon, usually end up with a quite a collection of EPs at the higher magnification end. For example, you will find many dedicated planet viewers owning a range of EPs which will include a 4mm, 5mm, 6mm, 7mm, 8mm, 9mm, 10mm, 11mm, 12mm and 15mm.

Now, is that excessive? I don't know, but my heart and mind tells me no. Just that 1mm difference in an EPs focal length, perhaps a magnification difference of some 10% to 15%, can often be the difference between a decent view and something bordering on the spectacular, or again, if a given focal length wasn't included, between a too-little detail view and a too much blury view.

The other consideration is that each planet - and to be honest, I'm really only referring to Jupiter and Saturn - is it's own beast and I don't think there is a perfect magnification to view them. There are too many compromises to give any solid type of suggestion, most notably the compromise of good seeing conditions. At best I'd suggest a range of EPs between 120x to 200x and my gut-feeling tells me that for Jupiter and Saturn you'll probably find that on average - throughout the year - magnifications between 130x to 180x will be used the most. By way of a first EP suggestion, perhaps an EP giving around 140x to 150x will be a good place to start.

For Lunar work, a range of magnifications from 100x to 250x always offer up something to be amazed by. The low power help frame the Moon, the mid-range frames craters and seas and mountain ranges and the high-power tweak out subtle features within terraces, the craters, and ray grazes etc.

For Jupiter, I have generally found that useful magnifications are betweem 140x to about 180x.

For Saturn - I have found 140x to 200x useful mags to play around with. I have gone to 250x, but this year, so far, only on one occassion when I was out in the desert and the seeing was just about perfect. I'm sure one can go even higher here, but a lot will depend on your own experience and the night's atmospheric conditions. Now, to be perfectly honest with you, I find Saturn very hard to observe. No matter the seeing conditions, it always feels like it is trying to keep something secret, something away and hidden from me. Saturn is a very small (1/6th of Jupiter's area) and a very mysterious jewel of the night sky.

Mars. The way I look at is that Jupiter is about 3x the size of Mars and to see Jupiter nicely is, say, at around 150x which means that for me to get a 'similar' view of Mars I need 450x. Well, I'm just not going to get that kind of viewing quality. So, I figure a compromise is needed, say, around 250x which still means seeing conditions have to be very good. As such, I haven't found Mars a particularly giving planet.

Other than that, in general, try to view the given object as close to the zenith as possible and bear in mind that as a general rule of thumb the brightness of an object will decline as you up the magnification. If I up the mag twofold, say, I'm reducing the image brightness by a factor of four. If I keep on doing this eventually details just disappear.

On the other hand, increasing the mag does make detail more apparent, so, as you can appreciate, we're now at a trade-off: will increasing magnification gain more detail even though I'm making the object fainter?

Final thought, whenever possible try to sit with your given object for a peaceful twenty to sixty minutes or so and you'll find that they'll be moments of great clarity and seeing. By practicing this attentive sitting you come to notice more and more detail from the given object.

Hope this offers up something useful

[Ohmless]

patience and experience. It also helps to look through bigger scopes and at images as it makes it easier to see the details.

I also recommend going to the BAA saturn project to learn the proper names for the features.

[Luna Unicorn]

Hi everyone thank you all for your kind replies!

Is a bst a type of eye piece? Not a brand?

I was wondering what a possl one is?

Sory for being completely stupid!

[Hootsitabernacle]

i got my 8mm BST today...no luck with the clouds at the moment but i live in hope

[gazza63]

Hi Luna

A plossl is a general eyepiece which gives you a better and clearer image than the one you get with the scope. Has a field of view around 52 degrees (some more).

A BST gives around 60 degrees field of view and give better eye relief ,(in other words you hav'nt got to put your eye so close to the lens. I much prefer a bst explorer. You can get them on sky's the limit

ebay site £47

Here's the link:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-25-8mm-BST-Explorer-Dual-ED-eyepiece-Branded-Starguider-/380599042333?pt=UK_Telescope_Eyepieces&hash=item589d78811d

Gary

[Luna Unicorn]

That's great! I just wanted to make sure.i wear glasses and have real problems looking down the eye piece!! ( I know that's a real big problem hah!)

Im thinking of getting an eye patch!!

[gazza63]

Then you wont see anything......Ha

[Luna Unicorn]

Haha. This night sound ridiculous but I don't know how other people who wear glasses do it!

I take my glasses off and cover my left eye with my hand and view down my right eye.this means I don't have my hands free for tracking!

[gazza63]

Can't you just close your left eye?

I wear glasses for reading, but through the eyepiece its fine. If you can get an eyepiece with a good eye relief, it means you can wear glasses while viewing. I know......everything is money!!!.

[Qualia]

This night sound ridiculous but I don't know how other people who wear glasses do it! I take my glasses off and cover my left eye with my hand and view down my right eye.this means I don't have my hands free for tracking!

Not ridiculous at all, Luna.

I'm right-handed, but find myself leading with the left for odd little things.

I'm right handed but can't close my left eye which means, for one thing, I can't aim at anything if I'm leading with my right hand, for example, a rifle or dart!

To make matters even worse - and with regard to this stargazing lark - although I can kind of wink with the right eye, my left eye is significantly weaker.

The solution to all this physiological madness? A handmade tanga-eyepatch

[wookie1965]

That's great! I just wanted to make sure.i wear glasses and have real problems looking down the eye piece!! ( I know that's a real big problem hah!)

Im thinking of getting an eye patch!!

I wear glasses and the BST explorers are brilliant to look through for people who wear glasses, they have twist up eye relief which is great,