Newbie looking for advice

[JillC]

Hello all from Glasgow!

I'm totally new to the world of telescopy, but have always had a fascination with space and the stars. Me and my boyfriend had been getting more into it recently, and had planned to get more involved with a trip out to the public observatory in Paisley, but to my surprise he picked up a telescope as a Christmas gift. I was blown away when I came home from work on Christmas Eve to find a telescope set up on the balcony, with the most amazing image of the moon, it was incredible. I've been pretty consumed with it ever since, but as this is new to both of us there are a few things we're struggling with. This forum has been a wealth of information already, but I wanted to introduce myself and perhaps ask for some more specific advice from all you experts out there.

Firstly, the telescope....My boyfriend made perhaps the cardinal sin of purchasing a second-hand (incomplete) telescope without doing any research from a guy who had even less idea about it. So he got it home and worked out it was a Tal, and then further deduced that it was a Tal150P. On looking at it closely this morning, I noticed it had 'Tal2' embossed on the base, and looking at images online, that's exactly what it appears to be (the unmotorised version). The telescope came without lenses, and without a counterweight, so we've had to improvise. My boyfriend had actually purchased a telescope before this one, but decided it was too small, so we have the lenses from that - a 20mm, 10mm, 1.5x barlow, 2x barlow and moon filter. For the counterweight, my boyfriend has managed to attach a dumbell weight where the counterweight should be, but it's far too heavy (I think) at 4kg! So my first question...is there anywhere you can purchase replacement counterweights? I've searched online but can't seem to find anything. Secondly, given the lenses are unidentified lenses from another scope, what size of lenses would you recommend for this particular scope? The barlows don't seem to work at all, though I read that they aren't great in urban skies - all we get with the barlows is a uniform yellow light. The lenses themselves seem pretty good, not that I have experience of others, but we've had beautifully crisp images of the moon and of Jupiter and its moons.

We were out again last night and had a good long look at Jupiter, but I could sense my boyfriend's restlessness. He was wanting to see some other stuff. I'm pretty sure I managed to get lined up with the Orion nebula, which appeared as just a faint milky white smudge on the dark background with a cluster of bright stars on top. He wasn't hugely impressed, and I feel he's a bit disheartened. To me, I enjoy every bit of being out, and just being able to find and identify stuff is great for me at the moment. The main obstacles for me just now are the telescope controls, with the huge counterweight and my lack of understanding, finding specific stars is a matter of pointing in roughly the right direction and wobbling the telescope about in the hope something interesting comes into the viewfinder. I think if we can get the telescope set up with a proper counterweight the whole experience will be a lot easier. Other disadvantages for us are that we're in the city, and though the main city lights are behind us there is still plenty of light pollution, and the balcony is south facing so we're missing out on half of the sky. These things will obviously restrict what we can see and how well we can see them, but given these circumstances, what are the capabilities of the Tal2? Will getting other lenses open up more of the sky to us? Are there any stars/objects that you could recommend in our field of view that may impress my boyfriend and get him back into it?

I'm enjoying the whole experience right now, and I'm sure I'll want to upgrade at some point in the future, but at the moment I could look at Jupiter or the moon for hours on end without getting bored. We're just getting started in this and even this dodgy telescope has impressed me hugely. Looking forward to taking it up to the north east for some crystal clear skies. In the meantime, if anyone can help with some of my questions I'd be very grateful. Thanks for reading my long-winded first post, and for all the advice I've already found on this forum.

Jill

[dtr42]

hi jill welcome . i have had 3 tal 1 scopes i love and hate them tbh the eq mount are good if the balance is right [think a 5 kg weight is about right] the tal2 has loads of followers on here so they will be able to help [i think that ep's are slightly bigger than the standard 1.25" but they come up regularly on astro buy [ i might have a 15mm ep that i kept will have a look if i find it you can have it ] . theres a night in the 9th january with ASG and the sky at night at the botanic gardens https://www.facebook...ef=stream there are regularl meetings with the astro society of glasgow [membership is £15 a year http://theasg.org.uk ] we have been trying to get a meet up near glasgow on this forum in barrhead, at the dams, but, the weather, has been pants hopefully this weekend if weather is good you and your boyfreind are more than welcome to come over keep an eye on this forum post here http://stargazerslou...targazing-meet/ .

ps have found the 15mm ep and a moon filter if you want it pm me

[Black Knight]

Welcome to SGL. It sounds like you've had a great time with your new scope so far, and you're right Jupiter is looking terrific at the moment. I'm afraid I can't answer specific questions about your kit because I'm not familiar with it.

As regards the "faint milky white smudge on the dark background with a cluster of bright stars on top" of the Orion nebula, that sounds to me like a very good description of what you would see through a telescope, so well done there! . The thing to remember is, most deep sky objects (DSOs) will look like faint grey fuzzy smudges to the naked eye through binoculars or a telescope. They do not look like the wonderful pictures you may have seen in books or on the internet. Those wonderful images result from many hours worth of exposures to collect enough light to be able to form an image. And then those images are processed using software to bring out the faintest possible detail. To get the most out of observing visually, you need to let your eyesight adjust to the dark for 20 mins or so, and then use a technique known as averted vision to tease out the details of whatever you're looking at.

As for what objects there are to look at, a good starting point may be the night sky guides you find in the centre of magazines such as The Sky at Night, and Astronomy Now. They are by and large targeted at newcomers, especially the one you find in The Sky at Night.

Download a copy of Stellarium, a free computer based planetarium (www.stellarium.org). That will help you on you journey around the night sky.

[Maleka58]

Hi Jill from one Nubie to another.

[Oily]

Welcome to SGL Jill

[bingevader]

It sounds as if you are getting along just fine.

Try the telescope section of ebay, Astronomy Buy and Sell or the Astro Boot section of scopesnskies (sorry, seems to be down atm) for the counterweight, I've seen them come up there before, others might have more ideas.

Shame about the barlows though, does it make any difference whether you use the 10mm or the 20mm with the barlows?

The 10 with a 2x barlow might be too much magnification.

Cheers

[JillC]

Hi dtr42, Black Knight and Maleka58. Thanks for your quick replies and help so far.

Dtr42, I'd looked into things going on in Glasgow and noticed there's quite a lot on the astronomy front, if I'm free on the 9th I'd be interested in heading up to the Botanics, and considering joining the ASG, I've looked at their website and it sounds like there's plenty for your membership fee, would definitely like to attend some lectures. Will keep my eyes peeled on the Glasgow meetup thread too, lets hope for some clear skies! Thanks for all the info.

Black Knight, thanks also. I've had a great time, seeing Jupiter has been an awesome experience already. Just being able to see and identify the Orion nebula was fantastic for me (and I'm glad my description was up to scratch). I've now got Stellarium, which seems like a fantastic tool for learning the skies. My Dad has always loved astronomy and I'd learned some of the main constellations growing up in the countryside and spending hours looking up at the skies, with my Dad as a guide. I've doubled what I could already identify with one night of skywatching using Stellarium. Very handy. I've got a copy of Turn Left At Orion ordered, but will look into Sky At Night for an up to date guide to what to see. Thanks again for all the advice.

[Jessun]

Welcome to SGL! Great intro there .

I hope you get the weight sorted to get the most of your setup! Frustration goes hand in hand with this whole business anyways. Always.

/Jesper

[JillC]

And you're right, I didn't realise how much adjusting it takes the eyes. I would never have thought of getting a telescope in the city before, because I've glanced up and only ever seen a couple of very bright stars, nothing like what I was used to seeing in the countryside. Since getting the telescope and spending time outside looking up, it's amazing how many stars begin to come into focus.

Hi Oily and Bingevader. It doesn't seem to matter which lens I use, I get nothing but light through the barlow, tried several times now. Will keep a lookout for counterweights on your linked sites - would be great to get the right one. I guess it's not the sort of kit that should go missing or need upgraded so most telescopes will have the original, but good to know they come up from time to time, cheers.

[Black Knight]

And you're right, I didn't realise how much adjusting it takes the eyes. I would never have thought of getting a telescope in the city before, because I've glanced up and only ever seen a couple of very bright stars, nothing like what I was used to seeing in the countryside. Since getting the telescope and spending time outside looking up, it's amazing how many stars begin to come into focus.

You can buy light pollution filters to help eradicate the glow from town and city lighting http://www.firstligh...-reduction.html. These screw into a thread on the bottom of the eyepiece, as long as your eyepieces have such a thread.

First Light Optics (http://www.firstlightoptics.com) are a Tal dealer. They may be able to help you with your counterweight problem. Try emailing them (probably a better idea than phoning them), I'm sure they'd probably be able to help you.

[rwilkey]

And you're right, I didn't realise how much adjusting it takes the eyes. I would never have thought of getting a telescope in the city before, because I've glanced up and only ever seen a couple of very bright stars, nothing like what I was used to seeing in the countryside. Since getting the telescope and spending time outside looking up, it's amazing how many stars begin to come into focus.

Hi Oily and Bingevader. It doesn't seem to matter which lens I use, I get nothing but light through the barlow, tried several times now. Will keep a lookout for counterweights on your linked sites - would be great to get the right one. I guess it's not the sort of kit that should go missing or need upgraded so most telescopes will have the original, but good to know they come up from time to time, cheers.

Hi Jill, welcome to SGL, it's amazing how many stars start to appear in the city when you use a telescope. When you said you were looking at the Orion Nebula and a group of stars above, if the group (cluster) looked like the shape of a crown then that's NGC 1981, a very nice cluster.

When using the Barlow, not sure but you maybe using it on its own, if you have been doing this then what you need to do is insert an eyepiece into it, this has the effect of doubling the magnification of the eyepiece. So, you stick the Barlow in the telescope focuser, then you insert the chosen eyepiece into the Barlow. It often gives too much magnification, and also remember that as you increase magnification, so the object gets correspondingly duller, so it's not always beneficial.

On the counterweights issue, spare ones can be bought from the forum sponsors, FLO, however, they are a bit expensive and you may get cheaper elsewhere. Link here: http://www.firstligh...terweights.html

[JillC]

Loads of great pointers - thanks folks! Those light pollution filters sound good, I hadn't heard of them before, but will definitely consider getting one. Given that Orion was fairly low to the horizon when I found the nebula, there was plenty of orange fuzz around from the lights, so I'm sure a filter would help to some extent. And we've used the moon filter in the same way, so should screw in OK.

Perhaps it was NSG 1981, though the stars I noticed were sat with the white smudge as a background, rather than above - I didn't word it so well in my first post. There were plenty of stars around though - I'll have to try and find it again when the skies are clear and get more familiar with the clusters around there.

With the Barlows we'd tried them initially when looking at the moon. We did have a lens attached to the end so it wasn't that, and tried all combinations, 20mm plus 1.5x etc, but perhaps the moon's too large and well magnified already? Though I have tried again on random patches of starry sky with the same results. Again, I'll give the barlows another shot when the clouds part.

The counterweights do look pretty pricey! Maybe I'll keep a look out for second-hand ones popping up on ebay and the other sites mentioned by bingevader, but I think the giant dumbbell will have to do for now! How about lenses, anyone any ideas? There was a really good sticky on the subject, but I'm not familiar with a lot of the technical stuff, and not knowing the details of the scope I have doesn't help. So I think it's an f/8, it sounds like this ratio dictates the range of scopes you want to have?

[rwilkey]

The stars in the middle of the fuzz are called 'the Trapezium', initially made up of 4 bright stars, if you magnify it a bit, two of the stars turn out to be doubles, so you can see up to 6 main stars. However, there are others in the vacinity as this is a star nursery.

If your telescope is indeed f/8, then this is very good as it will be tolerent of most eyepieces you would wish to use with it.

On the light pollution filter front, one of the best ones is the Baader Neodymium filter as this will bring out some of the details of some planets as well, it will also serve as moonglow filter, although note you already have a specific Moon filter, though you may find this one better: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/light-pollution-reduction/baader-neodymium-filter.html

[JillC]

Yeah I saw 6 very defined stars, three in a row, and the other 3 in a triangular cluster. Can't wait to look at it again now.

I think we're getting somewhere with the Barlow issue. Just found a very helpful thread (http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/170575-running-out-of-focus-with-2-x-barlow/), which seems to answer my question. The 2x Barlow is exactly the same as the 'odd' one mentioned in the thread, with the lens about halfway along the length, rather than at the end which sounds like a more common placement. And what I thought was a 1.5x Barlow actually has "1.5x Erecting Eyepiece" written on the side - not sure what it is.

I would love to get that light pollution filter to see what difference it might make - again, pretty expensive though. I can see me drinking less wine and buying more telescope accessories in the near future. Probably a healthy hobby swap to make.

[rwilkey]

The so-called '1.5x Erecting Eyepiece' is for terrestrial viewing, it places the image the right way up and corrects left to right issue, so you can use an astronomical telescope for daytime viewing. Filters are expensive aren't they? Don't worry, there is no rush, it's something you can get over time, perhaps for a birthday? Getting the telescope is often the cheapest part haha! You are doing fine with what you already have and have seen some great deep sky objects. If you can get out to a dark spot sometime that would be even better, but dress up warm and keep safe.