Another first telescope question ;)

[Cuffbertt]

Evening all,

First of all hello my name’s Carl and I’m from the wonderful county of Somerset. I am after some advice, another “what telescope should I get” question that I bet you all love

Basically I have been into photography for about 6 years and have had quite a lot of success at it. I have always been fascinated by astronomy although I literally have no knowledge on the subject (I can find the North Star using the Plough, but that’s it!). For Christmas my mum is going to give me a little money and I’d like to put it towards investing in my very own telescope I think my overall budget is only a measly £400, which I know is not enough to buy a great set up; I’m just looking for somewhere to start!

I’ve been reading for hours online over the last few days trying to find information on what to get. From what I’ve learned so far, the mount is much more important than the scope when it comes to AP. It also seems that the equipment that you need to get depends entirely on what you want to do, so I thought I better decide on what I want to achieve first! I want to learn as much as I can about astronomy but my aim is to get photo’s of planets and the moon to begin with, and then galaxies and other fancy things when my skills and knowledge (and budget ) have improved.

I understand that I am not going to be knocking out Hubble style shots, and to be honest it’s this learning curve that attracts me, the idea of getting a fuzzy photo that looks a little bit like a planet which gives me something to learn about and improve on makes me quite excited

From what I’ve discovered so far, I know I need an Equatorial mount in order to track objects. I have also read that a reflector is the best choice. I have looked at a few options so far, and am thinking that one of these two are good choices:

Skywatcher Explorer 150PL EQ3-2

Skywatcher Explorer 200P EQ5

Can anyone shed any light on which of these two would be best to begin with?

I have a couple of questions that I have so far been unable to find the answers to; if you could help me out I would be very grateful!

1. Would it be better to buy a scope and mount separately, i.e an EQ5 mount with the 150PL? Would this increase stability as it would be a smaller scope with a sturdier mount?
   
2. How are the telescopes held on the mounts? Do you have to buy separate rings to suit the size of the tube?
   
3. How do you use an equatorial mount to track the stars whilst taking a photo? Is the only option to use a motor to adjust the declination knob? (that’s the right knob, yeah?? Lol)
   
4. Is piggybacking a good option to start with? Am I right in assuming that I can mount my DSLR (Canon EOS 5DmkII with a Sigma 120-300 with 2x teleconverter) to the telescope and then take photos with that, whilst using the EQ mount and the telescope to correctly track the object manually?
   
5. I currently use a Canon EOS 5DmkII, which is quite weighty. Is there going to be any issues using the prime focus method on a telescope with the weight of the camera on the EQ3-2 mount of EQ5 mount?
   

Anyways, sorry for rambling on and asking so many questions! Thank you all for reading, your help is appreciated!

Cheers,

Carl

[Mr Q]

For a starter scope for imaging, I would go for the 200mm scope that comes with its EQ (motorized tracking) mount.

As for the other questions, I'll let others give you their advice.

[rowan46]

welcome to sgl i have a little good news and bad news. I'll give you the bad news first ( I always have more fun that way ) Your camera is not going to be very good for planetary photography. Prime focus is ok for the moon and long exposure deep space photography but for planets you are better off stacking video images.

Now the good news because you don't need a super mount and camera for planetary imaging you can get a fairly good visual scope and just put a cheap webcam on. So get yourself a 200p dob http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html and a chep webcam and you are good to go the money saved can go towards your next astro mount when you can use your dslr to better effect

[VigdisVZ]

Hi and welcome. Great name I have the same.

First of all you dont need an EQ mount to track, however, if you try to take long exposure photos without an EQ mount (or a wedge) you will get field rotation, ie the image will rotate and get blurry.

Also, a reflector isnt always the best choice, some people will tell you a refractor is the way to go for beginner AP, however it usually comes with a lesser focal length and is somewhat less suited to planetary work.

1) I can only speak from experience. I bought a NEQ-6 and scope separately. Worked fine for me

2) Telescopes usually come with rings and a dovetail bar. Consult your retailer for specifics.

3) Yes, you need to have a motorized EQ mount. Otherwise youre limited to really bright objects that require short exposure and even take a movie with a webcame and stack.(moon, Jupiter).

4) Piggybacking is a good option if you want to take pictures with your regular lens. It depends on what you want to do.

5) The camera wont be as much of an issue as the weight of the telescope. Aslong as you check what the mount is rated for, and try to stay well below that for better chance of getting a nice picture And you need to balance the the scope ofcourse.

My question for you is what do you intend to do? Are you serious about DSO photography or do you want moon/planets? If you invest in a smaller rig now do moon/planets, will it be come obsolete later? Is DSO's were you will end up? In that case you need the best possible mount you can afford. You can work with a motorized EQ 3-2 but be aware that you might someday want to start loading heavier scopes. I'd suggest nothing less than the EQ-5 (better yet the EQ-6) Unfortunately DSO photography is very expensive unless you constantly want to struggle uphill to get good results. The good news is that if you get the unmotorized 200p/ EQ-5 kit, you can add motors later. So if budget is an issue, see if you can invest in stuff that wont get obsolete quickly.

Like rowan said, you could just wait with the EQ mount and get a 200p dob, and start out with that. There are a ton of options open to you if you dont intend to do long exposure photography. However, getting the EQ-5 opens up the possibility of upgrading the mount.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough: If youre serious about DSO photography, get Steves book "Making Every Photon Count". It's a complete walkthrough to DSO AP. And also, see if you can meet up with some fellow astronomers in your local Society. That way you could get first hand advice and even have a look at the equipment.

[Cuffbertt]

welcome to sgl i have a little good news and bad news. I'll give you the bad news first ( I always have more fun that way ) Your camera is not going to be very good for planetary photography. Prime focus is ok for the moon and long exposure deep space photography but for planets you are better off stacking video images.

Now the good news because you don't need a super mount and camera for planetary imaging you can get a fairly good visual scope and just put a cheap webcam on. So get yourself a 200p dob http://www.firstligh...-dobsonian.html and a chep webcam and you are good to go the money saved can go towards your next astro mount when you can use your dslr to better effect

So I guess that photographing planets and DSO’s are two totally different games that need very different set ups? Is there a reason why webcams are better for the moon and planets and DSLR’s are better for deep space shots? I’m struggling to understand what the difference between the two is at the moment; is it just that deep space stuff is much much darker and requires a series of long exposures, for which a DSLR is better? Sorry for the daft question...

[Cuffbertt]

Hi and welcome. Great name I have the same.

First of all you dont need an EQ mount to track, however, if you try to take long exposure photos without an EQ mount (or a wedge) you will get field rotation, ie the image will rotate and get blurry.

Also, a reflector isnt always the best choice, some people will tell you a refractor is the way to go for beginner AP, however it usually comes with a lesser focal length and is somewhat less suited to planetary work.

1) I can only speak from experience. I bought a NEQ-6 and scope separately. Worked fine for me

2) Telescopes usually come with rings and a dovetail bar. Consult your retailer for specifics.

3) Yes, you need to have a motorized EQ mount. Otherwise youre limited to really bright objects that require short exposure and even take a movie with a webcame and stack.(moon, Jupiter).

4) Piggybacking is a good option if you want to take pictures with your regular lens. It depends on what you want to do.

5) The camera wont be as much of an issue as the weight of the telescope. Aslong as you check what the mount is rated for, and try to stay well below that for better chance of getting a nice picture And you need to balance the the scope ofcourse.

My question for you is what do you intend to do? Are you serious about DSO photography or do you want moon/planets? If you invest in a smaller rig now do moon/planets, will it be come obsolete later? Is DSO's were you will end up? In that case you need the best possible mount you can afford. You can work with a motorized EQ 3-2 but be aware that you might someday want to start loading heavier scopes. I'd suggest nothing less than the EQ-5 (better yet the EQ-6) Unfortunately DSO photography is very expensive unless you constantly want to struggle uphill to get good results. The good news is that if you get the unmotorized 200p/ EQ-5 kit, you can add motors later. So if budget is an issue, see if you can invest in stuff that wont get obsolete quickly.

Like rowan said, you could just wait with the EQ mount and get a 200p dob, and start out with that. There are a ton of options open to you if you dont intend to do long exposure photography. However, getting the EQ-5 opens up the possibility of upgrading the mount.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough: If youre serious about DSO photography, get Steves book "Making Every Photon Count". It's a complete walkthrough to DSO AP. And also, see if you can meet up with some fellow astronomers in your local Society. That way you could get first hand advice and even have a look at the equipment.

I think that DSO images are what I’d like to get eventually, but I would assume that they’re significantly harder to capture than planets, so that’s why I figured the moon and planets would be better places to start! I tried taking shots of star trails a few weeks ago but as there was patchy cloud overhead I wasn’t having any luck, then I tried (with a little bit of success) to get a close up of the moon, which I think was the point where I decided I wanted to take it more seriously.

Thanks for the book recommendation also, I will find a copy now

[Cuffbertt]

So if I’ve understood correctly, I need to decide if I want to shoot the moon and planets or deep space objects, as this decides what sort of equipment I need to invest in? I.e. a Dob with a webcam for planets, but an motorized equatorially mounted refractor/reflector with a DSLR for long exposure DSO’s?

Looks like I have some thinking to do… haha

Thank you all very much for your help

[jonathan]

I think you should start small, as astrophotography is a very large area (like the night sky). Aim for the easy stuff first (moon, planets, Orion Nebula perhaps), repeat what others have done before you and gradually learn your way towards bigger things both in terms of your knowledge and equipment. Reading forum advice is like trying to read theoretical physics sometimes for me, I don't have a clue what they're on about until I actually get my hands on the mount / scope and try it for myself. Focal lengths and ratios are just numbers to me, I just want to look through my telescope and see stuff.

I bought an NEQ6 mainly to get rid of the vibrations, it certainly did the trick, but I also have a smaller CG-4 mount as it is far lighter and easier to handle for quicker sessions, and requires fewer accessories to run (batteries etc) and thus fewer trips to and from the house to set up / take down. A CG-4 is probably enough to do some light astrophotography, too; to me, the CG-4 looks like a better mount / tripod than the EQ3-2, you can buy the Skywatcher 150P OTA and a CG-4 separately, and get motor drives for RA and DEC with hand controller, though this set up is likely to cost closer to £500.

Nothing beats a pair of binoculars for quick observing though, going through the Moore Winter Marathon really has been an eye-opener as to how much can be seen without the use of a telescope. I would strongly suggest giving this a go, it will increase your knowledge of the night sky and give you some targets to think about too.

Edited December 11, 2012 by jonathan

[Cuffbertt]

Reading forum advice is like trying to read theoretical physics sometimes for me, I don't have a clue what they're on about until I actually get my hands on the mount / scope and try it for myself.

I know exactly what you mean, I thought the same thing when you said about a CG-4 mount. I guess thats another brand of equatorial mount?

I can find the 150P (or 150PL...?) tube for about £190, the CG-4 mount for £220 and the motor drive for £90, totalling £500 like you said , although I may leave the motor for a month or so to keep within my budget and so that I appreciate it more when I get it , do I then have to buy the rings and dovetail to put the tube on the mount, or is that supplied?

Thank you for the help, I'm slowly beginning to understand it!

[rowan46]

The problem is trying to kills 2 birds with 1 stone. visual astronomy uses 1 set of parameters and deep space photography uses another you can't do both brilliantly with 1 scope and mount unless you have a serious amount of cash. For visual astronomy a scope with a large apparture is best. But if you want to photograph using this big scope then you need a very big accurate mount to put it on. With deep space photography you need a good accurate mount to hold a scope and equipment steadily.

Seriously before you start buying equipment that is only marginally adequate to your needs get and read the book. You can do imaging with the setup you are proposing to buy but it will be tricky frustrating and if you do crack a routine for getting some product with it you will quickly realise how limiting it is and feel that you have wasted the money that could have got you the setup you needed in the first place.

I bought a setup for visual saw the pics on here and decided to try taking pics I have wasted an amount of money trying to make it do a job that it can't do very well. Moral get the right tools for the job its quicker easier and gets you a better result

[jonathan]

I can find the 150P (or 150PL...?) tube for about £190, the CG-4 mount for £220 and the motor drive for £90, totalling £500 like you said , although I may leave the motor for a month or so to keep within my budget and so that I appreciate it more when I get it , do I then have to buy the rings and dovetail to put the tube on the mount, or is that supplied?

The tube rings and dovetail should come supplied with the 150P, and probably the 150PL too (confirm it with the vendor before buying). I bought DEC and RA motors for my CG-4 Omni, it cost about £122 for the complete package and were a doddle to fit.

I'm not saying that the CG-4 Omni mount is the best for photography, but it is a step up from the EQ3-2 (they are virtually identical to look at, both are equatorial mounts, but the CG-4 comes with substantially thicker tripod legs which will help to reduce vibration caused by touching the scope, and also from breezes). Each step up the mount weight category increases the price, and it doesn't look like you want to spend £850 on an NEQ6 straight away (which is probably the top end of the standard reasonably-priced EQ mounts, after that it goes into silly money for huge contraptions). For your budget, I think the CG-4 should be a good intro for you to visual and photography, and if you do upgrade to an EQ5 or whatever later, the CG-4 would still make a good grab and go or travel mount.

If you don't care what you are looking at or where it is in the sky, then a full Goto is probably what you're after, but they come at a price, and for serious imaging you also really need to know how to perform precise polar and drift alignment. Without motors you won't be able to do much in the way of imaging anyway, though you may be able to do some short exposures on the brighter planets and moon (some people turn the slow motion controls by hand).

I would say it's best to learn the ropes first, then add motors later when funds allow. Visual observing can be very rewarding, less time spent setting up and less stress worrying about alignment, and whether or not the clouds will roll by half an hour into the session.

[Dunkster]

So if I’ve understood correctly, I need to decide if I want to shoot the moon and planets or deep space objects, as this decides what sort of equipment I need to invest in? I.e. a Dob with a webcam for planets, but an motorized equatorially mounted refractor/reflector with a DSLR for long exposure DSO’s?

The moon and planets are relatively bright, so it's possible to get away with just a tracking mount (eq not necessary) since the exposures are very short...typically using a webcam at 10 or 15fps or higher, and then using a processing technique called stacking to filter out the duff frames.

DSOs are relatively faint and the same technique can't quite be used... it's necessary to track the object with the shutter open (dslr or pricey ccd) for minutes at a time. Which is the part that requires an accurately tracking eq mount, eq to counteract field rotation (streaky stars due to the rotation of the earth in what appears from here to be a big arc).

It's further complicated by the focal length and focal ratio of the scope too, but I'm up to my knees in hot water so I'll let someone else follow on

[Bukko]

Hi, Carl,

can I offer another idea...?

You have a Canon EOS5D, with a 120-300mm zoom.

It is easy to get an adapter to use the 5D as an imaging camera, but as you say, this is a heavy camera and I would not want to hang it on the focuser off a small scope.

The 120-300 mm FL willlet you image some of the larger DSO;s, such as M31 Andromeda galaxy, M42 in Orion and many more. If your interest is to develop imaging and DSO's in particular, I woudl suggest spending your budget on the mount. A short dovetail and a 1/4" UNC/Whitworth screw gets you locked onto the mount with what you have.

Then you could practice controlling the mount, polar aligning and the better you get, the longer the exposures can be.

You can then include image aligning and stacking as well as dark and flat field correction. Get all the essentials sorted out before actually investing in a 'scope.

This will get you some experience with DSO imaging. When you get to the point where you are frustrated in not being able to chase after the more challenging targets, you will have a much better idea what you need and will hopefluuy have saved up enough for an OTA for the mount.

FLO have a Skywatcher EQ5 PRO Synscan on offer for £515.00 Yes, just above your budget but would cope with an 80mm Apo refractor and your camera with ease. I know it's GOTO, but it will help you get round the skies and with DSO's, many are really faint and really difficult to find without a lot of experience.

Anyway, just my thoughts...

Gordon.

[jonathan]

I agree with bukko, start small and work your way up. You may be surprised at what you can do with even a small zoom lens, a DSLR, and a well set up mount.

One thing that foxed me was focusing when the moon wasn't up, my 1000D DSLR generally doesn't see the stars well enough to get a focus fix. I'm sure there are methods, but I didn't look too deeply into it. I have since acquired two new mounts, both of which have tracking, so may give this another go with my 1000D and 55 - 250 zoom lens.

Edited December 12, 2012 by jonathan

[Cuffbertt]

I'm not saying that the CG-4 Omni mount is the best for photography, but it is a step up from the EQ3-2 (they are virtually identical to look at, both are equatorial mounts, but the CG-4 comes with substantially thicker tripod legs which will help to reduce vibration caused by touching the scope, and also from breezes). Each step up the mount weight category increases the price, and it doesn't look like you want to spend £850 on an NEQ6 straight away (which is probably the top end of the standard reasonably-priced EQ mounts, after that it goes into silly money for huge contraptions). For your budget, I think the CG-4 should be a good intro for you to visual and photography, and if you do upgrade to an EQ5 or whatever later, the CG-4 would still make a good grab and go or travel mount.

So at the moment I’m thinking that a 150P with a CG-4 or maybe an EQ5 is a good option, which will let me enjoy viewing and learning before I purchase a motor system and start AP in a few months. What’s the difference between a CG-4 and a CG-4 Omni? I can’t seem to find this out anywhere but I’m sure I’ll feel like a fool when someone points out something obvious

[Cuffbertt]

FLO have a Skywatcher EQ5 PRO Synscan on offer for £515.00 Yes, just above your budget but would cope with an 80mm Apo refractor and your camera with ease. I know it's GOTO, but it will help you get round the skies and with DSO's, many are really faint and really difficult to find without a lot of experience.

Gordon,

Thank you for your reply, I always thought that the scope and mount were equally important, but now I know that for AP the mount is significantly more important! It’s kind of weird actually, when I bought my tripod for landscape photography I picked a Giottos carbon fibre one that was lightweight but sturdy, so now it seems odd trying to train myself that a big heavy metal tripod is what I need :L

What exactly does Synscan do? I know a GOTO will point to the object you want using a computerized motor system, is Synscan/Syntrek the just a branded name for doing this? Also, is it possible to buy a mount such as an EQ5 and then add this feature later, or is that not possible?

I’m not sure that a GOTO is really what I’d like, it seems a little bit like cheating when you’re just starting out, surely part of the fun is in learning your way around the sky finding the objects? Although I assume that using a GOTO would totally remove the need to use a motor to track, so maybe that’s another reason to go for one

Thanks again for the reply, I’m now learning that there are many different ways to start out, each with their own advantages and disadvantages, which need to be weighed up carefully!

[Cuffbertt]

Yesterday when I got home I purchased a copy of Making Every Photon Count, I’ll be sure to read it thoroughly! Mum’s starting to get a bit angry with me now as I haven’t chosen anything yet- “Christmas is only two weeks away Carl!”, uh oh!

[jonathan]

What’s the difference between a CG-4 and a CG-4 Omni? I can’t seem to find this out anywhere but I’m sure I’ll feel like a fool when someone points out something obvious

I'm not entirely sure either! I have the Omni, I think it is probably just an updated version, perhaps because it has thicker tripod legs.

[VigdisVZ]

Yesterday when I got home I purchased a copy of Making Every Photon Count, I’ll be sure to read it thoroughly! Mum’s starting to get a bit angry with me now as I haven’t chosen anything yet- “Christmas is only two weeks away Carl!”, uh oh!

If all else fails, maybe a gift certificate and you can take your time with your choice?

[jonathan]

What exactly does Synscan do? I know a GOTO will point to the object you want using a computerized motor system, is Synscan/Syntrek the just a branded name for doing this? Also, is it possible to buy a mount such as an EQ5 and then add this feature later, or is that not possible?

In the Skywatcher line of mounts, Synscan is full Goto, Syntrek is usually the same mount and motors as Synscan but just a simple hand controller with no Goto. Both will automatically track.

I have the Syntrek NEQ6, I didn't want full Goto; depending on which mount you initially purchase, full Goto can be added later to a Syntrek by simply purchasing the Goto handset, it costs about £300 or £330.

General wisdom goes that on an EQ5 level mount you probably want tracking at the very least, because you are likely to be using it either for imaging or for high magnification, so turning knobs at this stage is going to be very tricky for keeping something in the eyepiece.

You could have an EQ5 Deluxe for £240 and add a DEC motor to it for £75, but for a major upgrade you could go for the HEQ5 Syntrek for £615, I can only go by the product description but apparently it has upgraded gears and motors for more accurate tracking, and will accept the Synscan handset as a quick and easy Goto upgrade (the other EQ5 mounts require a motor upgrade too, I think).

Have a good read through of the product descriptions on FLO's Skywatcher mount pages...

At this point it comes down to money, how much are you prepared to pay? Consider future-proofing and what you might want in the future. A good mount bought now is something you won't have to worry about later, whether you decide to go for something big or something small, it's worth spending that little bit extra to get the good version.

Edited December 12, 2012 by jonathan

[Cuffbertt]

At this point it comes down to money, how much are you prepared to pay? Consider future-proofing and what you might want in the future. A good mount bought now is something you won't have to worry about later, whether you decide to go for something big or something small, it's worth spending that little bit extra to get the good version.

Thanks for the information Jonathan! I don't really think I can stretch my budget much unless I want to walk the 15 mile round trip to work each day lol

I'm thinking I have X different options at the moment:

• 150P with EQ5 or CG-4. Use this without motors for a while and then buy a Dec motor for it
  
• Skyliner 200P Dob. Forget about AP for a while and enjoy viewing the stars, or use a webcam for planetary imaging
  
• Rob a bank and then buy an EQ5 with Synscan haha
  

Although I have just noticed on the FLO clearance section that theres a Celestron Omni XLT 150 that comes with a CG-4 mount and is now only £330

[rowan46]

If you want get into astrophotography seriously you need a heq5 minimum not the eq5, cg4, eq3. and you need a small fast refractor so as not to strain the mount (imagers usually work on 1/2 to 2/3 mount capacity) you will need a guide scope a guide camera. Seriously hold off buying anything till you read the book. You strike me as somebody who knows a bit about photography and would know the difference between a good photo and a just about ok one. That'll do will not keep you very enthused for long. If you must have a scope get the dob but £500 isn't going to get you something you will want to keep on doing astrophotography with. To sum up if you want to do serious deep space photography 80mm fast apo refractor on a heq5 is your cheapest route to quality pics if you want to use a big scope then you are going to need a bigger mount than the heq5

[jonathan]

Although I have just noticed on the FLO clearance section that theres a Celestron Omni XLT 150 that comes with a CG-4 mount and is now only £330

This would be a nice option for an introduction to visual, within your budget so you will be able to afford either a nice high magnification eyepiece (not something you would need for photography, but would increase your viewing pleasure) such as the Celestron X-Cel LX 5mm, or a dew shield (some people make their own from a £5 camping mat, if you are that way inclined.. I prefer to buy a pre-made Astrozap one - I am told that the 6" Cele SE Notched fits the 150P) and maybe a red LED torch. This set up would be mainly for visual though, for serious imaging you would probably need to replace most of it with bigger and better stuff, though with a DEC motor you should be able to get some decent results using your camera lenses (mounted directly to the mount) or through the telescope using the camera body attached to the focuser via the relevant adaptors. A dew shield is something that will be useful for both visual and photography, as it reduces the chances of being dewed-out and also reduces the amount of stray light entering the tube, e.g. from nearby street lights.

I'm considering buying the 5mm eyepiece myself for the 150P I just took delivery of, the 150P looks pretty much the same as the OTA on that deal they have on FLO that you mention. Not sure how good it will perform from my back garden, will depend hugely on seeing conditions. A 7mm or 12mm will be slightly more forgiving of less than ideal seeing conditions; I do hear that a fast scope such as this (f5) requires high quality eyepieces to get the most out of it.. i.e. better than the ones supplied with the scope.

£400 is a drop in the ocean for a proper imaging set up, that wouldn't even buy you a decent enough 80mm OTA, not to mention mount, guide scope, dedicated camera (which themselves can cost thousands of pounds), which is why I dropped the idea and went for the 150P instead. After a couple of years at it I am still mainly visual, I was in your position before I bought my first telescope but the more questions I asked the more money it required and more confusing it all got! But maybe that is just me.

Edited December 13, 2012 by jonathan

[Cuffbertt]

Cheers for the advice everyone, I appreciate it! My copy of Making Every Photon Count arrived in the post yesterday and I started reading it for about an hour when I wasn't busy. Holy moly it's like a bible for everyone in my position! I can't believe how good it is, it starts right at the basics and has already answered pretty much every question I had when I joined this forum! I will definitely recommend it to anyone else that's in my position lol.

Not sure I'll be getting a scope for a while now though... Last night on the way home from my girlfriend's house I somehow managed to put my car backwards through a hedge, so my Christmas funds may be going towards the insurance excess for that boo!

Cheers for the help guys

[jonathan]

I used to be keen to get into astrophotography like you, until I took a car backwards to the knee...

Tough luck on the Christmas money, but there's more where that came from so don't dispair. A pair of cheap binoculars and a planisphere might just tide you over until you can afford to buy again.

Edited December 14, 2012 by jonathan