Laser pointer advice.

[breezy]

Hornets nest ??? Naah just friendly banter

[ronin]

Laser pointers fall into a one of the usual UK not quite rules or laws.

It is not illegal to sell, buy or use them.

Health and safety govern selling of them and until you get to industrial ones that does not really come in.

Lasers go by Class I, II or III for H&S.

The legality aspects come into the use of them. It is now illegal and therefore criminal to point them at someone or something such that it dazzles the "target" and so causes a danger or hazard to them. Equally with the normal speed of the UK governments this law didn't actually come in for some time.

Remember years ago it was not illegal to sell or buy a CB radio, but it was illegal to use one. Well it is the same sort of thing with these. There are quite a few things that fall into this nowhere land. Think that a mobile phone jammer is one now, you can sell them and buy them, just cannot use them.

The "limit" of 5mW is from the US, they have this legal limit on selling a GLP, not the UK. However even in the US there are ways around it, the law is for selling a GLP and that means a complete pointer package. What people do is buy a 1mW GLP then buy a replacement set of internals that is 50/100/200mW and swap. That is fine by US law. So all a bit questionable.

There is limit of 1mW for use in presentations such as talks and lectures, I suspect the wording may be for inside presentations but not sure, simply haven't looked for and not read it.

For home use a 50mW may seem tempting but is unnesessary, 10mW is fine, a 5mW in most towns is a bit poor owing to the light pollution present.

A 50+mW GLP is VERY visible, any roving police car within 3-5 miles will see it. Also means it is highly visible to any unhappy neighbours who could equally report the use of it. If anyone does report it then they will not say that it was being used responsibly, they will say it was being pointed all over the place and a hazard to everyone. Police will have to act on it.

So better to stay down the power output range.

[Daveb3650]

Should it not be "Laser pens can be dangerous" as opposed to "they are dangerous"....... knives can be dangerous too....... just thowt i'd add my pennyworth in lol

[freeflyjay]

i have a 200mw one mounted on my scope on a bracket (as described by glowjet above) i have it all aligned and it is great for aligning the scope, i imported it from china cost under 20 quid, it is a bit excessive and will even burn skin at a couple of inches so you have to be very careful, but i brought a high power one as i found the 1mw one i used to use ran the batteries down too quick so when the batteries start to go on the high power it still works well, it is very bright, the company i brought mine from actually sells a 2000mw pointer, now the 200mw would be dangerous enough in the wrong hands so a 2000mw could cause serious harm, but must admit just as a gadgit i was tempted just so i could pop ballons ect but that is around £120 so an expensive toy i`d soon get board with.

[DaveS]

Living under the Heathrow flight path no way would I consider using any kind of laser pointer for astronomy. I have a 5mw Galileo from LaserGlow in the US. They do some pretty serious lasers, even as pointer / hand-held lasers

[SnakeyJ]

I suppose we always have the defence of using it educationally I have a couple of 5mW red lasers for fibre fault finding so will have a play to see if they're any use.

[cantharis]

i have a 200mw one mounted on my scope on a bracket (as described by glowjet above) i have it all aligned and it is great for aligning the scope, i imported it from china cost under 20 quid,

Man after my own heart - I have a cheap 300 mW that I move from scope to scope. Saves my poor back a lot of bending. I don´t live near an airport flight path and my Spanish neighbours will not be complaining about me - they are far more live and let live than Brits can be.

[cantharis]

A 50+mW GLP is VERY visible, any roving police car within 3-5 miles will see it.

Why is that any kind of problem?? It is not illegal to use a laser to align a telescope.

[E621Keith]

Firearms in the UK are defined as a ´lethal barreled weapon´. So I think that comment is a work of fiction. A licence? Is there one? Some years ago I was working with VERY high powered lasers used in nuclear fusion research at an establishment that doesn´t appear on any maps - I don´t ever remember any licence of any kind. It is only laser pointers that you are going to hold and wave about with an audience present that are actually limited to 1 (not 5 - that is in the US) mW. A laser incorporated into a piece of scientific equipment (like your telescope setup?) is subject to no such regulation. So the law in the UK is very vague on the whole subject.

Here in Spain? Well the corrupt cops are only interested in ripping off motorists. Who cares about lasers?

Well I got the firearms comment from a trading standards officials when I contacted them about a company selling illegal laser pointers. (they weren't interested in enforcing it though)

I am very interested to hear you fire very powerful laser outside of the fusion lab. Most kW class laser I came across comes with tons of health and safety regulations and a laser safety officers.

Regardless, a guy loose his sight to a 50mW laser pointer, and that's enough for me to conclude high power laser pointers are dangerous. There is no way I would use something that may blind myself or a fellow astronomers just because it's convenient. Even in my astronomy club, there are a few club officers who have no regard for laser safety and routinely point the laser at audience while waving their hands during a presentation. A high power laser pointer is an accident waiting to happen

[Alma]

There's a very comprehensive US website on laser pointers here :- http://www.laserpointersafety.com/index.html which, if you have the stamina, has a long article on various countries' laws on laser pointer usage. As has been stated already, pretty much the only thing to be concerned about in the UK is pointing at aircraft, for which there is a specific law - the Air Navigation order 2009, Article 222, which simply states ......

" 222. A person must not in the United Kingdom direct or shine any light at any aircraft in flight so as to dazzle or distract the pilot of the aircraft." The law was introduced to address the problem of laser "attacks", i.e. deliberate targetting of an aircraft, however seems to be drafted so as not to preclude accidental incidents.

I have a 5mW green laser but don't us it at home as too close to a standard arrival track into Heathrow.

[MrPloppy]

In addition, with laser pens of this calibre, you can switch street lamps off. Just shine it at the daylight sensor (usually at the top), and the dumb streetlight thinks its daytime and switches off!

Of course, I've never tried it, and I would not say anyone should do what is (potentially) an illegal activity. But still....

[cantharis]

Regardless, a guy loose his sight to a 50mW laser pointer, and that's enough for me to conclude high power laser pointers are dangerous.

A guy I know lost the sight of one eye when it was stabbed by a cactus spine. So do we therefore conclude that cacti are dangerous?

Actually growing cacti is my other hobby, and I shall continue to do it regardless of the risk to my sight.

[themos]

After making a heater jacket for my green laser (just 6x 330Ohm resistors in parallel, fed with 12V) I can confirm that as long as the laser diode itself is kept warm, the beam will be strong enough. I thought it might be the batteries being affected by the cold but that doesn't seem to be an issue. The jacket, anyway, warms the whole pen and so keeps the batteries from getting too cold.

[E621Keith]

A guy I know lost the sight of one eye when it was stabbed by a cactus spine. So do we therefore conclude that cacti are dangerous?

Actually growing cacti is my other hobby, and I shall continue to do it regardless of the risk to my sight.

You don't wave a cactus around or throw it at people do you?

If you use a laser pointer around people (e.g. guided tour) , the chances are someone (especially kids) will ask you if they can have a go. Even if you are a responsible person, there is no guarantee the other attendee will be responsible. The chances are someone will wave that laser pointer at other people thinking it's fun without realising what they are doing is seriously dangerous. A laser pointers have a lot of reach and everyone in the direct line of sight is at risk of exposure to the beam.

I had laser pointed at me numerous time and fortunately they were low power ones.

[pixelsaurus]

I'm in 2 minds about laser pointers. I was at an astrocamp recently when the prez of a local society, annoyed with people indiscriminately using bright white light torches, vented his frustration at a photographer who was taking shots of people using telescopes. The photog was using a cell phone to illuminate a group of stargazers and got well and truly zapped for his troubles. He spent the next day having his eyes assessed at a local medical centre. Apparently this was not the first time he has been zapped; at some other time place and place, his Canon 5D had the sensor destroyed and he suffered some physical, as well as financial, discomfort as a result. Whilst I think lasers are pretty interesting tools, unfortunately there are those in society that can only be described as "lowest common denominators". Putting lasers in their hands is just asking for trouble. The end result is that maybe all public use of lasers will be banned. Sometimes I think the only learning that takes place is when "other's do unto you what you do unto others".

[cantharis]

You don't wave a cactus around or throw it at people do you?

Been known.

[cantharis]

The photog was using a cell phone to illuminate a group of stargazers and got well and truly zapped for his troubles. He spent the next day having his eyes assessed at a local medical centre.

Are you saying, by your use of the word ZAPPED, that someone deliberately shone a laser in his eyes? Well that is criminal assault if that is the case. I trust the police were called. OK, I use lasers, find them very useful - have had some banter here with folks about the things - but would never condone their use to harm an innocent bystander.

[glowjet]

After making a heater jacket for my green laser (just 6x 330Ohm resistors in parallel, fed with 12V) I can confirm that as long as the laser diode itself is kept warm, the beam will be strong enough. I thought it might be the batteries being affected by the cold but that doesn't seem to be an issue. The jacket, anyway, warms the whole pen and so keeps the batteries from getting too cold.

That is most interesting, can you shed a little more light on the materials and method used to create the jacket, I am sure a lot of other members will interested as well

John.

[pixelsaurus]

Are you saying, by your use of the word ZAPPED, that someone deliberately shone a laser in his eyes? Well that is criminal assault if that is the case. I trust the police were called. OK, I use lasers, find them very useful - have had some banter here with folks about the things - but would never condone their use to harm an innocent bystander.

The short answer is: yes.

I don't know if the police were involved however the zappee did raise a health and safety issue with the NZ Govt Department of Labour. As it was a private gathering, ie no-one was employed at the event, the Dept declined to act.

[themos]

John, more details at

[glowjet]

Very useful, thanks for that

John.