Matter and mass and infinity

[kirkster501]

According to Einsteins Theory of general relativity massive objects warp the fabric of space time and thus effects mass less photons of light and bends them.

Cool - I get it. So here is Steve's theory. So light has no mass right? So that means even a object of ANY mass is INFINITELY more massive than the photon!

So:

SUN = 100000000000000000000000000000 divided by zero = infinity

APPLE = 1 divided by zero = infinity

The result is the same to something of zero mass!

So why does not the apple bend light as well?

[KenG]

It may well do, but the deflection would be on a quantum scale and probably impossible to measure.

[George Jones]

So why does not the apple bend light as well?

An apple does bend light, but

It may well do, but the deflection would be on a quantum scale and probably impossible to measure.

Energy, as well as mass, warps spacetime, so even light bends light!

[Zakalwe]

Your theory is sound except for one small, but important, point. It doesn't fit in with what is observed. You know that an apple does not have infinite mass (otherwise it would have long ago collapsed into a black hole). So it is far to say that there is probably a problem with your theory.

I'm not good enough at maths to point out where it might be wrong. I'll leave that to someone a lot better than me.

[Capricorn]

So that means even a object of ANY mass is INFINITELY more massive than the photon!

Yes it is reasonably true to say that any object is infinitely more massive then a photon, but that is not saying that it is infinitely massive.

If a photon is zero then we have, in very simple terms, infinity times zero as the "mass" of an object.

Neither infinity nor zero is a welcome guest in mathematics/physics, as both become "undefined".

And a photon has zero rest mass, not quite the same as zero mass.

[Bwfcrus]

And a photon has zero rest mass, not quite the same as zero mass.

Can you explain that please?

[JulianO]

Can you explain that please?

E = mc²

What does that mean? It means Energy is equal to mass with a conversion constant of c². A photon has energy, so it actually has an equivalent mass (E/c²). Mass and energy are interchangeable. A photon doesn't have a rest pass - i.e., if you could stop one, and try and weigh it, it would weigh nothing, but you can't stop photons, they always go at the speed of light. So photons act like they have a mass because they have energy, so photons bend space-time a little bit, have momentum, and all the other things we associate with regular particles.

It's a little more complicated than this, because E=mc² is actually not the equation you should be using, but a simplification of a slightly more complex one.

[Alastair Rae]

From How Gravity Affects Photons (NASA)

"General relativity explained, in a consistent way, how gravity affects light. We now knew that while photons have no mass, they do possess momentum. We also knew that photons are affected by gravitational fields not because photons have mass, but because gravitational fields (in particular, strong gravitational fields) change the shape of space-time. The photons are responding to the curvature in space-time, not directly to the gravitational field"

[starfuel]

I'm afraid you can't say '1 divided by 0 = infinity', or anything else divided by 0, for that matter. Dividing by zero is a proscribed operation in mathematics. In fact, if you ever perform division by anything, say x, you must state the condition that x is not zero. Many errors will arise otherwise.

[Ags]

Zero Kelvin is absolute zero. By your argument, everything that is not at absolute zero would be infinitely hot (that is, infinitely hotter than absolute zero).