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First scope, reflector or mak-cass?


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Hello guys newbie here!

I Have been interested in space and the universe for a while now after watching wonders of the universe and through the worm hole etc and find it all very fascinating =) .

I was up late last Friday looking out of my loft window in my room at around 4am and it was so clear I was faced with a great view of Orion and Jupiter (after checking stellarium to find out what I was looking at) and it really gave me the itch to get my first scope.

So since then I have been reading as many forums as I can trying to get an idea of the best scope I can get for my needs. I had an original budget in mind of around £200-£300 but maybe I need to stretch that :p .

I have a few questions though before I rush into anything. I was thinking of using my window to view from where space is quite limited so I was looking at getting a small scope but after reading around here I want something around 6".

At first I was quite against getting a reflector because the image is upside down so I was looking at getting one of these http://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-eq3-2.html which would also be usable from inside my room. But I am worried about the field of view with a Mak-cass, Would I still be able to see constellations?

Because of the field of view issue and as they seem to be highly recommended the other choice would be one of

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150pl-eq3-2.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-eq3-2.html (smaller length)

Or maybe push the boat out and go for http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200p-eq5.html as it seems highly recommended on here but I am concerned of the size.

I have considered getting a Dobsonian but it might be too big and too low to see through my window?

So yes I am a bit stuck. Of course If I am spending this much money I would not just be using the scope indoors but If I could keep it set up in my room to view through my loft window that would be great. The other concern is that my windows view is to the SW and I was unsure If I could polar align the EQ mount then point it in the SW direction of my window? I don't want GOTO I can upgrade to that in the future.

I would like to be able to see constellations, planets, Messier objects etc pretty much a good all rounder (probs asking too much) but having never looked through a scope I don't know what to expect. I am not too bothered about AP maybe in the future but for now just observing.

I just can't wait to get started (want a scope this week if I can get one) so please help me make up my mind and get started!

Thanks in advance guys!

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Perhaps the first thing to point out, and hoping this doesn't put you off at all, but its not good practice to observe from within the house looking out a window. I know the thought of being cosy warm is very welcoming but it will play havoc with the view you get from the scope. Unfortunately to get a decent view, or the best from the telescope, you will need to dress warm and head outdoors.

It sounds like you want to do a bit of everything and so the 150P would be the ideal choice. Its a great all round telescope providing great views of everything.

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Hello

I am pretty new myself but let me add my thoughts:

Any particular reason you're looking thru a window? I'd recommend going outside for several reasons like acess to more sky and no glass pane and thermals.

If viewing was the priority, you really don't need to waste money on an EQ mount (except if you really want an EQ mount). A dobsonian newton is both easy to use and very cost effective.

So my recommendation would be to get like a 150p or 200p dob in that case.

If you think that you will take up astrophotography at some point get the EQ5 mount, anything less you will have to replace if you get serious. Or you could use like a dob for observation and then go for broke later with something like an EQ-6 mount if you really want to pursue AP.

Hope this helps a bit.

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Hello and welcome to the forum :smiley:

The others have given great advice but I'd just like to re-iterate that the views will be much, much better if you can get the scope outside and away from houses / heating / lights etc. Whatever scope you get, you will not experience anything like it's true potential viewing out of a loft window, even with the window open !

This said, the best performance per £ spent for visual viewing would be the Skywatcher Skyliner 200P dobsonian.

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Well, viewing from an interior area just doesn't work, but if you have to, don't open the window or you'll see nothing because of air currents. Even with the window closed you'll have to use low power eyepieces.

If you absolutely have to view from inside, a binocular on a camera tripod is best. Don't dismiss this idea, I have binoculars at a couple of windows in my house and on nights when I don't feel like setting up my scope, they're very satisfying to use.

If you get a scope, you are ultimately going to have to move it from your room to outside, so it's going to have to be portable. 6" is a fair bit of kit to shift on a regular basis. Have you considered a small refractor? There are some very portable ones on the market.

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Awesome responses =D

It was mainly my first though while looking out on that clear night that it would be awesome if I had a scope right now kind of thing. I do have a pair of binos but they aren't amazing and I can't see any detail. So as it seems pointless to view properly from my room I should not worry about the size and get what I can afford. Maybe get a cheap small scope for indoors so I can see that little bit better whilst up at 4am when I am not going to go out a tabletop Dob/refractor or something?

I am lucky enough to have access to a nice caravan where there are nice skies not very light polluted and a house in the Lakes where I bet I could get out there and do some proper observing =) . Also there is a small field at the back of my house where I went for a look with the binos last night before the clouds came and hid Jupiter and Ursa Major (I believe) which I was looking at so I will be able to get out and about.

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Hi... I,too am very new to this so I won't advise but tell you my expereience and you may benefit. Had my first scope last Christmas and, although only a cheapie reflector from a well known camera shop I still remember the buzz of seeing Saturn's rings for the first time! What did I do...Caught aperture fever and bought a 10" Meade SCT with all the GOTO stuff. Big mistake. It was incredibly heavy so I couldn't transport it to better sites (very light-polluted where I live). I totally endorse the previous views....I tried observing with the patio door open to save lifting it into the garden....Waste of time-you need to have the scope at the same ambient temperature. So although I remember the buzz of seeing the ring nebula for the first time I would not recommend this as a starter scope. What did I do? Having sold the SCT and following a holiday at Olly Penrice's Gite (http://www.sunstarfrance.com/ I was shown the light! Halleluja I hear you shout. I advertised on AstroBuySell for a second-hand Televue Pronto. This is a 70mm refractor but only 480mm long so fairly fast at f6.9 and, more importantly, portable. The next thing I have been buying Good qulity eyepieces (again secondhand from astroBuySell). I am LOVING it! I picked up a vintage 32mm Konig eyepiece and the Pleiades, well it's beautiful. Everything is manageable. The Televue is renowned for its quality of optics, both in the scope and some eyepieces I have bought.To summarise I would say start small, learn the sky (The BBC Sky at Night site has The Moore Winter Marathon observing guide...Great for newcomers) and consider secondhand....There are bargains out there at a time when I feel, due to the current popularity of astronomy, prices are soaring for the new stuff.

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It looks like you've bought into the idea that trying to observe through the loft window is a bad idea. Just in case you have any residual doubts, I was trying to figure out how it would even work, for the following reasons:

- If the window was closed, the patch of sky available for viewing would be very restricted

- Even if you opened the window to increase your viewing area, what could you do? The eyepiece / focusser is positioned at the front end of the telescope, so you'd have to squeeze your head out the window to look through it

- This one may not be relevant to you, depending on whether you have close neighbouring properties, but I think that it would be easier to explain to your neighbours that you're not up to anything untoward if you're standing openly in the middle of the lawn with your 'scope. Not so easy to explain if you're seen pointing it out the window... :p

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"- Even if you opened the window to increase your viewing area, what could you do? The eyepiece / focusser is positioned at the front end of the telescope, so you'd have to squeeze your head out the window to look through it"

This is why I was thinking about getting a Mak-Cass smaller and could set it up under the window with it open and the EP at the rear.

- This one may not be relevant to you, depending on whether you have close neighbouring properties, but I think that it would be easier to explain to your neighbours that you're not up to anything untoward if you're standing openly in the middle of the lawn with your 'scope. Not so easy to explain if you're seen pointing it out the window... :p"

Haha yeah they're already used to seeing me in the window doing untoward things but that's for a different forum. :tongue:

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As I'm new to this, I purchased the celestron 127 mak and haven't been disappointed yet.

As the guys mentioned above looking through a loft window or anyone window that's open is still a bad idea. As I'm sure you will have heating in your house this will have a huge negative effect on your viewing not only distorting the image your view will be so restricted.

Wrap up warm get your self out and you will be amazed at what's out there

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Hi again,

I think I'm going to go for either of the 150p, 150pl or 200p I linked in the op. What would you all advise? It would be awesome if someone could give a brief overview of the strengths/weaknesses of each.

I am also going to need to buy accessories EP's, collimation tool and maybe more? So would it be worth the £415 for the 200p + accessories as a starter scope? :p

Thanks again!

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Any of those is good. I'm glad you decided against the mak which although brilliant for planets, is not the best for an allrounder.

If you can afford the 200 go for that. Aperture is king:-)

Typed by me on my fone, using fumms... Excuse eny speling errurs.

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I bought the 150pl as a starter scope and am delighted with it. It's a better visual scope than the 150p: it has higher magnification due to the longer focal length, plus the "slow" focal ratio means that a) collimation doesn't need to be as fine-tuned which is good news for a beginner (I haven't needed to collimate yet), and B) the EP quality isn't as crucial.

As for extras, I've invested in a Cheshire collimator so I have it to hand when needed, plus I'm clumsy so I tend to muck up the eyepiece lenses so I bought cleaning fluid and a cloth (Baader), and I have a telrad on back order, plus I spent a few quid on foam material to make dew shields for the secondary and the telrad. And I lost one of the tripod feet in the grass so I need to buy a replacement. So all told, I've spent an additional £85 in the 3 weeks after buying the scope, and I have the S&T pocket atlas plus turn left at Orion on my wish list as well! This hobby tends to require continuous investment - and I haven't even got to thinking about filters, better EPs etc. yet!

Having said all that, I'm absolutely hooked now and am jealous of anyone with a bigger mirror, so I'd certainly consider the 200p if I could afford it!

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Doesn't matter how far you stick your head out the window, you're still going to get air currents. Warm air rises, so the air in the house is going to stream to the outside past you and your seeing will be zero. Also, whilst aperture may be king, think carefully what you're going to do with your scope. If you're going to have to move it around a lot to get decent views, aperture may well become a millstone round your neck. I refer you to the golden rule - a small scope that you use regularly is better than a big one you use occasionally.

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Hi there,

Its been said already but, from experience, you will be regretting buying a scope and only having a small window to view through. As well as the limited area, the sky also zips past faster than people'd think, and trying to hunt down a target in a small patch of sky that'll soon be gone from your hotspot could be frustrating.

Otherwise, as said above, a reflector - over 6" aperture - will be nice and versatile as far as the things it will allow you to observe, though the mount - dob or EQ - will become important with passing time. A lot of people get their first scope thinking they just want to do visual observing but after a short time the idea of taking pictures of the view through the eyepiece for aesthetic reasons or even to 'see' better detail than can be picked up by eye alone, and those without an EQ mount will need to then by one before photography is possible. Having said that, simple webcam imaging of the larger planets and moon is possible on a dob mount, but thats pretty much it.

Dobs are cheap enough to allow a bigger aperture to be bought, and relatively easy to use.

If your unsure of whats in the sky and how to locate and navigate your way around then goto mount might be a useful expenditure, though it will cause your budget to be halved meaning a smaller scope to go on it.

The rest seems well covered by other posts, but I want to +1 the comment that the scope you use more beats a bigger one that you struggle to transport. Very true.

All the best,

Regards

Aenima

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Great advice all round.

Just to add to the pot. If possible, try going to an astronomy club. See the set-ups being used. Have a look through some of the scopes, look at their mounts and tripods etc.

If portability is a problem, or you live in a LP area, or don't really have a garden to view from etc, the following words ring true for me and on pretty much similar lines (with a more limited budget) I've done exactly the same kind of thing and going to remian this way until I can afford an 'upgrade' of a light, big aperture, portable dob.

I (own) a Televue Pronto. This is a 70mm refractor but only 480mm long so fairly fast at f6.9 and, more importantly, portable....Everything is manageable....To summarise I would say start small, learn the sky.

Grommie, do you have any pics of your set-up. I'd love to see some.

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Right I am leaning towards getting the 200p on the EQ5 after reading around the forums.

What with gaming PC's and Troutfishing I really do know how to choose expensive hobbies haha.

Last chance for any input before I part with the cash!

Thanks again

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Well I've done it! Been using my binos for the last 2 hours enjoying some really nice sites and decided to go for it so ordered the 200p with eq5 and a cheshire!

Really can't wait and with my birthday early next month then xmas I think I will have a few EP's and others on my wish lists =D

Thanks to everyone who gave their advice!

Now to soon join in with some discussion threads once I get going :grin:

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