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Buying help - Beginner telescope with GOTO etc


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Hi All,

We want to gift a telescope on someone's 30th birthday. He has never done serious astronomical activities but he is fascinated by the astronomical programs on the tele and apart from that he is a decent photographer.

After doing some basic research we have nailed down on our requirements for telescope -

1. It should have 120-130mm diameter. (at least that is what everyone recommends to start with)

2. GOTO feature.

3. It should be compact

4. It should have scope for basic astrophotography - like attaching dslr and taking some reasonable pictures of planets, start clusters etc.

5. Userful for terrestrial as well as celestial observations.

We have a budget of around £350-400.

Is it too many features to ask at this budget?

If you have any suggestions for particular models, it will be very helpful.

Cheers,

A

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Number 4 is problematic: For astrophotography you need a sturdy mount that will track the sky accurately (it moves opposite to the earth's rotation), otherwise the images will have motion blur. The minimum recommended is the Skywatcher HEQ5 and it busts the budget, before you add the scope. Astrophotography is very technical, time consuming and expensive, however imaging planets is a lot easier and less expensive so he can buy a modified webcam for less then 100, read a couple of tutorials and get busy with it. Any telescope with GOTO will be ok to image planets.

For terrestrial observation you'll have to add a erecting prism 45º, otherwise the image will be upside down. One of this will do:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/william-optics-125-45-degree-erecting-prism.html

The only scope I know that ticks all the requirements (except for #4) and is within budget is this one: http://www.firstlightoptics.com/az-goto/skywatcher-skymax-127-synscan-az-goto.html

It haves good reviews and is made by a reputable brand.

Other extras he will need:

- Some kind of red light torch, to keep his eyes dark adapted while checking maps, books or fiddling with the GOTO.

- A nice beginner book such as "Turn Left at Orion": http://www.amazon.co.uk/Turn-Left-Orion-Hundreds-Telescope/dp/0521153972/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346799114&sr=8-1

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Forgot Celestrom haves too scopes similar to that one that fit the requirements:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/slt-series/celestron-nexstar-127-slt.html

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/slt-series/celestron-nexstar-130-slt.html

This one is a reflector and will need him to check if the mirrors are correctly aligned every now and then, so it requires some occasional maintenence the other don't need. On the other hand it reaches outside temperature faster (which gives better views) and it's less prone to have accumulate dew. He can make a dew shield for the other 2 using a camping mat and that helps a lot.

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Tough call, you either need to compromise on GOTO, portability or basic astrophotography.

I'd compromise on the goto probably, it's part of the learning experience to find your way around the sky.

A small apochromatic refractor on a beginner mount would probably push the budget too hard.

A dobsonian provides great value for money and great views but throws you out on portability and probably photography.

A newtonian capable of beginner imaging would be getting largish.

Personally I had similar requirements starting off and ended up with a Skywatcher 150P on an EQ3-2 mount, around £290 and great for DSLRs and simple imaging.

EQ5 mount would be better if price allows. This is good for visual astronomy and ok for planetary photos, a bit of basic deep sky photography is doable too.

The Williams Optics Zenithstar Zs70 looks like a good starter refractor at £370, but a starter mount for it would cost in the region of £200-500.

The mount is something that is reasonable to pick up 2nd hand, people are usually upgrading and sell them on. An EQ5 with motors is usually less than £200 on UK astro buy and sell.

A scope might be risky 2nd hand unless you can check the optics first hand.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't blow the budget and give him a simple setup that will provide excellent views. If the bug bites him he will want to upgrade things anyway.

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Thanks very much Pvaz and Badgers for your advice.

There are last two doubts I have before I make my final decision on this -

1. Can reflecting/Newtonian telescope be used for terrestrial observations? As far as I know its not but I see some pictures on website which shows it can.

2. How is Meade 80ETX bag pack telescope? I am quite confused about this scope as it has been rated high on some of the websites but user reviews are bad.

Thanks a lot once again.

Cheers,

A

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Regarding using the scope for terrestrial viewing, you would need something like this:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/diagonals/william-optics-125-45-degree-erecting-prism.html

It basically flips the image as seen through the scope the right way up and then allows for land viewing. There are others on the market but this company (Williams Optics) have a good name and its a very good price.

Hope this helps.

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2. How is Meade 80ETX bag pack telescope? I am quite confused about this scope as it has been rated high on some of the websites but user reviews are bad.

Luke's covered terrestrial viewing.

For point 2. The Meade scope is one of the new generation of small GOTO alt-az telescopes. These are simple and easy to use and very quick to set up.

The issue with the meade scope is that it is an achromatic refractor, so it brings red, green and blue light together at slightly different focus points. This causes an effect called chromatic aberration which many people don't like either visually or photographically. The more expensive refractors are Apochromatic and do not have this issue.

With the meade scope you would need to install a 'wedge' to make it capable of longer-exposure imaging of deep sky objects.

The skywatcher Alt-Az GOTO scopes are also great value and would provide excellent views and photography for planets (e.g. Skywatcher Skymax 127 GOTO) but same issues apply for longer exposure deep sky imaging.

To be honest a cheap Alt-Az goto might be a nice first option, as they are simple, portable and people are less likely to get frustrated early on. They are just a bit less upgradeable or adaptable if he gets into the hobby.

Just my two cents anyway : )

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Just another thought here to help you along the way.

How about this scope?:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/se-series/celestron-nexstar-4se.html

It fits everything you require apart from the astro-imaging, which as you know by now is not really viable on the allowed budget.

The 4SE (in the link above) has all you ask for apart from "REAL" imaging ability..............but it can still be used to image the moon and planets with the aid of a wedcam. It is so compact/portable, is fully Go-To, has a pretty good aperture (4"), and with a 45 degree erect prism as i suggested earlier can be used for terrestrial observing.

I have the 8SE version and they truely are great scopes.

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"I'd compromise on the goto probably, it's part of the learning experience to find your way around the sky."

I'd usually agree with this because i am what may be called "Old School". I learned my way around the night skies using bins and books.

However, times have changed and people getting into the hobby today want instant gratification. Go-To gives them this option.

I myself have now switched to Go-To and am loving it.

I say whatever makes you happy and keeps you interested in the hobby then go for it.

There is no shame in letting modern technology pointing you in the right direction,once you at the very least have an unserstanding of exactly what it is you are looking at.

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I'd suggest you pay a 'reccie' visit to a star party or meeting - I think the Baker Street irregulars meet in central London 'regularly'. Then he (and more importantly you) can get an idea on the quiet of what sort of scope might suit their needs. I am a keen photographer but quickly realised that astro-photography is a different art altogether and am purely visual now. on this basis I bought the biggest dobsonian I could afford and never looked back. I have three scopes now, all manual dobs and 'love' them to bits - they are the best thing for visual in my eyes although others differ.

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Personally I would not choose the 80ETX, chromatic aberration can be annoying on planets/moon and the small aperture will limit maximum magnification on planets and won't allow him to see much DSOs. I think it's a scope he will outgrow very fast.

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You all are brilliant! I didnt expect to get so many useful replies so quickly. I should have found this forum long back :)

Thanks so much.

From all the replies and reading reviews etc, I am making my mind for Celestron 4SE as it seems to tick all the boxes, though I am compromising on aperture as compared to Celestron 127slt or Skymax 127 which were on top of my list so far. I will be paying bit more as well. However the mount seems to be stirdy and suitable for astrophotography and optics quality look better as well.

Do you guys think I am making the right choice? or are there more options apart from these?

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The 4SE is OK for planetary and lunar photography using a web cam but not deep sky imaging. The latter needs an equatorial mount and a scope with a shorter focal length than the 4SE.

A 4" scope shows nice views of the moon and planets but it's not a lot of aperture for viewing deep sky objects - there will be many that are no more than a faint patch of light, at best, or even invisible, despite the fact that the GOTO mount can point the scope at them.

It's really impossible to find a scope that is good at everything - otherwise we would all have one !. As it is, many end up owning a number of scopes and using them to play to their strengths.

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The 4SE is OK for planetary and lunar photography using a web cam but not deep sky imaging. The latter needs an equatorial mount and a scope with a shorter focal length than the 4SE.

A 4" scope shows nice views of the moon and planets but it's not a lot of aperture for viewing deep sky objects - there will be many that are no more than a faint patch of light, at best, or even invisible, despite the fact that the GOTO mount can point the scope at them.

It's really impossible to find a scope that is good at everything - otherwise we would all have one !. As it is, many end up owning a number of scopes and using them to play to their strengths.

This is true. For about the same cost (or even less) you can buy an 8" Dob which gives you bigger bang for your buck.

A 200mm (8") Dob will give you the views you want but it is a manual scope. Nothing wrong with that.

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John,

You are right, it is difficult to get everything in one scope and you will have to compromise on one or more things.

The problem is which one you compromise on. Unless you get a clear idea of what are the implications of the compromise it is difficult to make informed decision.

I am at the moment not sure if a 1 inch reduction in aperture is going to out weigh the better mount of 4SE over 127slt. I was reading other posts on this forum where beginners like me are in similar dilemma and cant make up their mind between 4SE and 127slt. I think thumb rule of astronomy says bigger the aperture better it is. So may be 127SLT is right choice over 4SE. Cant make up my mind yet :(

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Paul,

I wish the person I am gifting this to had enough space to store the 8" telescope. Easy to store and carry scope is very important for a beginner I think and the GOTO feature can create that initial enthusiasm to explore the skies without investing lot of time in reading (though I personally think manually finding the objects is much more satisfactory and fun - its like doing research)

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Paul,

I wish the person I am gifting this to had enough space to store the 8" telescope. Easy to store and carry scope is very important for a beginner I think and the GOTO feature can create that initial enthusiasm to explore the skies without investing lot of time in reading (though I personally think manually finding the objects is much more satisfactory and fun - its like doing research)

I could not agree more. So when buying this scope as a "gift", completely forget my sugestions and go for a 200mm Dob.

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5" to 4" is not that much of a difference. Both the 127slt and the 4se will be nice planetary scopes.

If you live in London the LP will limit DSOs, no matter how much aperture you have. GOTO will also be a great help has you can't really find your way in the sky when you can only see a few stars.

I think you can't go wrong with any of this. No matter what scope you get, if the bug bites he will want to add a couple more to the collection. The important thing is that, with either of this scopes, he will have a quality starter scope to enjoy the night sky.

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