Getting my head around Guiding / imaging help please

[Ewan]

Hi all,

As skies have been terrible (under statement) of late i have been reading a lot of posts of imaging / guiding for my setup.

I have managed to get hold of a Toucam Pro II flashed to a SPC900NC with IR filter.

As i wanted to 'ease' into this subject as it were i have ordered a 10m cable to connect to my hand controller - laptop via a usb / RS232 adapter, am i correct that i can sit in doors (lazy i know but warmer) with this connected up & use maybe Stellarium to 'point' my scope where i would like to view ?

The question is with my present kit what is the easiest way to get into guiding ? as my mount has a guiding point i need a ST4 guide cable & a Shoestring GPUSB Auto-Guider Kit ? or does the 'in built' guide port in my mount do the same job as the Shoestring ? (which is what i thought) the Celestron manual is a little vauge on this to say the least as it also sais i have an AUX port which i don't.

I know its not ideal but could i buy a larger finderscope & use the Toucam with it as a guide system ? or a cheap APO / Toucam ? or am i trying to get too much out of the Toucam for guiding & better off buying a better camera for this purpose.

Sorry for all the daft (simple) questions, in my mind i was going to use my 600D at Prime Focus on my C8 and the Toucam as a cheap guider although im a little reserved at the CCD's capabilty as pinpointing a guide star & keeping it on track if you catch my drift.

Can't thank you all enough for any help, i've not posted in a while as i try to find the answers by myself in here & other forums but you can't beat advice from expierienced users.

All the best, i have just seen some sort of tellowish glow in my garden just gonna take a look & report back later :-)

[kookoo_gr]

in order to guide you need two scopes (one is the iamging scope and the other one is the guidescope), a guide camera and an imging camera (duh). you place the camera at the guidecope and you piggyback the guidescope onto the imaging scope. since your guide camera does not have an st4 port to send directly guide pulses to the mount you can use ascom pulse guiding. you can download eqmod (free software that allows to control the mount via a pc if you have the synscan hand controller, in other case you have to buy an adaptor in order to make the connection possible) and use it to control the mount. i am conserced though about the 10m cable you are going to use, it may cause alterations to the guide commands to the mount

[Ewan]

Thanks for the info, it is kind of what I thought, if I want to use Stellarium or other I can connect my 10m cable straight to my Nextstar handset then to laptop, this is handy as I can view on screen what / where I want to view sky wise and command the mount ? Same as using the handset directly.

If I want to guide & image I really need a proper guide cam with FireWire (USB alternatives at all ?) & ST 4 port, ST 4 cable goes from rear of guide cam into my ST 4 port on my mount & FireWire to Laptop, I wouldn't have thought 10m would 'lag' the commands as it were ?, maximum length recommend anybody ?

As I have an guiding port built into the mount I don't need the Shoestring gibbons do I ?

[brantuk]

Hi Ewan - If you just want "remote control" of your scope a 10m active USB is fine. You'll also need a serial to parallel adaptor for the CG5 GT Goto so you can plug into the handset using the serial port. The USB plugs into your computer and you can configure Stellarium to control the mount directly.

To add in guiding for imaging you'll need to get the ASCOM interface and Phd guiding software (both free). You'll also need either an OAG or a second guide scope - the ST80 is very popular for this and you'll need to find a way of mounting it to the C8. The OAG way is more involved so I recommend a guidescope - or you can look into using a "finder guider" like the Altair Mini Guider system which is very good and very light.

Both cameras and mount will plug into a 4-way powered USB hub on the mount - then the 10m cable into that and back to the PC/laptop. I'd also recommend the use of a couple of bhatinov masks for focusing (and a reducer for the C8 if you want to capture dso's). Once you have it all hooked up and working you then need to read up on imaging, guiding, stacking and processing. A good book to start with is "Making Every Photon Count" and here's all the links you need to get you going (below).

You're in for a few weeks of serious reading and research - and maybe a couple of months trying it all out depending on how the weather goes - but it's very rewarding in the end. Keep the rig as light as possible cos you're probably undermounted as your kit stands. I wish you loads of luck.

http://www.astronomi...k/helpcanon.htm (for Canon advice and additional hardware cables/hubs etc)

http://ascom-standards.org/ (Interface software)

http://www.stark-lab...phdguiding.html (webcam guiding software)

http://deepskystacke...lish/index.html (for stacking dso subs)

http://www.astronomie.be/registax/ (for stacking webcam frames for planets/moon)

I'd also recomend the use of Astro Photography Tool (APT) for scheduling a photo shoot. And Gliders 3-part guide to setting up guiding and imaging on Astronomy Shed website.

[Ewan]

Thanks Giant very helpful, i have ordered the necessary cables & will look for a suitable guide cam over the next few weeks i guess.

[brantuk]

I used an SPC900NC in the ST80 for guiding - try your Toucam first - you may find it works nicely and no need splash out on anything more expensive

[Ewan]

Thats exactly what i was going to try when my cables turn up & i can get above the clouds / rain :-)

I have only setup the mount roughly before at most using 2 star align & the tracking was very good, i could just leave the moon / venus or bright star in the centre & come back to it 15 mins later & it would still be there, so i was going to try imaging without guiding first & just using my mount & toucam & maybe my 600D.

I will probably get the ST80 (as a kit with rings & dovetail would be good) as i can also use it as a finder ?

I need to make mistakes so i can learn from them, it's no good you guys giving me all the answers (although very good of you all) & me just following, i may as well come around your place & watch you do it all instead :-)

I appreciate & respect the learning curve & i know things wont go my way until a lot of work is put in & it's this part i like about astronomy.

Thanks again Giant i was quite lucky to pick up the Toucam as it is & i am looking froward to trying it out.

[x6gas]

If I want to guide & image I really need a proper guide cam with FireWire (USB alternatives at all ?) & ST 4 port, ST 4 cable goes from rear of guide cam into my ST 4 port on my mount & FireWire to Laptop, I wouldn't have thought 10m would 'lag' the commands as it were ?, maximum length recommend anybody ?

As I have an guiding port built into the mount I don't need the Shoestring gibbons do I ?

As Brantuk says, you might be able to get away with your webcam for guiding... This, though, will mean that you'll need "the Shoestring gibbons"! If you have a guidecam that has an ST-4 port then as you say you just connect that to the guide port on the mount and you're away.

Brantuk knows of what he speaks, but I will just offer an alternative view regarding off-axis guiding. I moved to an OAG last year and - once it's set up and you are used to it - it's actually pretty simple and reliable. You might find you get better results using an OAG with the relatively long focal length of your scope and you don't have to worry about the dreaded differential flexure. OAGs are, though, pretty expensive for what they are (isn't everything!) but no more expensive than shelling out on a separate guidescope, mounting bar etc. Another big advantage for your set up is the weight saving. OAG is much lighter than having a separate guidescope and since your mount is probably near the payload limit for imaging I think OAG is worth considering...

[Ewan]

Hi everyone just a quick update from me just regarding progress really.

Well my RS-232 cable to Hand controller turned up + my USB to Serial cable (which works) & my Antares 3X Twistlock barlow, so i set my scope up today just pointed at a seagul (No not a new constellation i'm afraid) on a roof opposite us in the back garden to try out the Toucam.

Configured the newly installed Win 7 laptop with (as far as i know) most of the necessary software needed to just control my scope & do prime imaging at the moment, thee was a lot to install tbh.

I installed the following:-

SPC900NC drivers

ASCOM Diagnostics (passedf all the tests but not quite sure what this proves)

Dome Simulator & Profile Explorer

Celestron HC & MC Updater

Next GPS (think was part of another install as i do not have GPS ?)

Nextremote & Next Tour

K3CCDTolls3 & Stellarium

Connected Nextstar to RS-232 & ran Nextremote controller software & after the initial setup was as i expected exactly like holding the controller but you can do it inside ;-) worked fine

Ran K3 with the Toucam plugged in to laptop & in C8 tube, after selecting the correct camera and selecting 300+ res i did not have an image straight away but eventually got it to work (not sure why any ideas ? software / driver versions ?)

I could not adjust the brightness / gain etc through K3 but instead had to use the SPC software configurator which did allow me to turn settings down then i got what i thought is quite a good image albeit of a bird.

Tried the Toucam in the Antares & it was kind of strange looking at this seaguls eye winking at me on screen as the zoom was fantastic ;-)

So i'm happy with things so far just need to try out my 6.3 FR & wait for some good night skies.

If anyone has a similar scope / mount software installed is the any updates or particular versions i could be using instead or useing compatability mode maybe to make things run smooth as K3 seemed to 'stall' a couple of times & imaging just froze on screen ?

I don't want you guys after all your help thinking i'm wasting your time putting this info here but it is work in progress & i'm loving every minute of it.

So i'm will 'tweak' my laptop & software & keep practicng in daylight (i wanted to try imaging in the day as well as i have seen this is possible as well), any good objects i could trying to image this month if the weather improves ?

Anyway thanks for reading if you got to the end & all the help / advice appreciated as it always is

[brantuk]

Congrats on getting it all set up Ewan - credit to ya