HQ5 Synscan upgrade

[Leda]

Is it worth it? I don't think so.

300 GBP for 2 motors and a handset (handset seems to be the most expensive part).

I really don't see why it should be so expensive given that it is riddled with bugs (handset firmware freezing etc) and the motors, well they aren't expensive to make.

These things have been out for quite a while, why haven't they dropped in price? 150 GBP seems more reasonable but 300 is eye gouging given the mount only costs just over 200 GBP.

I bought this mount for a reason, it is budget, no way am I going to plonk 300 on it for some cables and 2 motors (and motors that are not precise enough as the higher end motors). 150 maybe.

/Rant

[Cornelius Varley]

Two new motors, new MCB, new handset. The handset does seem expensive as a single item (£170 ish) if you consider that you can buy a new Merlin goto table top mount for about the same.

Peter

[Leda]

I think they priced it out of range for the EQ5 intended market, BUDGET.

I don't buy into the "space" tax myself, reminds me too much of "monster cables" or "steve jobs tax" or "gamers tax".

[malc-c]

The motors that come with the kit have twice the precision than the analogue motors. Plus you also get a replacement controller PCB which has the built in ST4 guide port, and of course the handset..

Then you have the business aspect... developing and R&D of the components...shipping costs from the far east, taxes and duty paid by the importer... importers overheads and profit to give a wholesale price... then the retailer with their overheads and profit margin.. Both the importer and retailer need to make a profit, they all have bills to pay like the rest of us...

Often purchasing an add on as an optional upgrade later does work out mote expensive than purchasing the option as a factory fit with the initial purchase...

Astronomy is an expensive hobby. If you think the upgrade is extortion, have a look at some of the telescope piers - £500 for a meter length of steel tube with a few bits welded to it !! - but then there (apparently) is a lot of R&D that's gone in to it too

[Leda]

Piers are overpriced too, get a steel post and concrete and a builder to put it in cheaper.

Its the "space tax" and they get away with it because people let them by just handing over the money.

Skywatcher is a budget brand, they don't R/D, they COPY and mass produce.

The "add on" price after is not much more than the prefitted mount, same thing, only about 20 or 30 GBP more expensive, so that is not the issue.

"Astronomy is an expensive hobby" bs excuse if ever I heard one, any hobby is expensive if you want it to be.

Again EQ5 is a budget market, they forgot this on the handset and tried to use one size fits all, well it doesn't.

They have probably sold a bunch of these as "upgrades" and also part of the mount packages. I am sure they have made their money back and can start to lower the prices, 150 seems a better price point than 300 for it IMO. 300 puts my money back in my wallet and starts to look at new mounts (not skywatcher preferably) because once we are into the thousands price range, that is outside budget and not skywatcher.

The import tax excuse is not an excuse, nor is shipping, they ship them by the container load. The import tax is based on the price, they probably even fiddle the shipment paperwork (happens more than you think - apple do this to hide their components btw - you can get shipping info from online sites that sell shipping manafests info).

I would be happy to have a simple handset without GOTO, I don't really care for GOTO anyway just tracking, anyway they got their database free online somewhere anyway then just dumped it to the firmware, I can use my own catalogues database.

[Cornelius Varley]

Piers are overpriced too, get a steel post and concrete and a builder to put it in cheaper.

Its the "space tax" and they get away with it because people let them by just handing over the money.

Skywatcher is a budget brand, they don't R/D, they COPY and mass produce.

They have probably sold a bunch of these as "upgrades" and also part of the mount packages. I am sure they have made their money back and can start to lower the prices, 150 seems a better price point than 300 for it IMO. 300 puts my money back in my wallet and starts to look at new mounts (not skywatcher preferably) because once we are into the thousands price range, that is outside budget and not skywatcher.

The import tax excuse is not an excuse, nor is shipping, they ship them by the container load. The import tax is based on the price, they probably even fiddle the shipment paperwork (happens more than you think - apple do this to hide their components btw - you can get shipping info from online sites that sell shipping manafests info).

I would be happy to have a simple handset without GOTO, I don't really care for GOTO anyway just tracking, anyway they got their database free online somewhere anyway then just dumped it to the firmware, I can use my own catalogues database.

Could you tell me who Skywatcher copied from.

Peter

[Leda]

Could you tell me who Skywatcher copied from.

Peter

Vixen.

http://stargazerslounge.com/sponsor-announcements-offers/157803-vixen-gp2-gpd2-mount-promotion.html

"These much copied and highly respected Japanese-made mounts are bang-up-to-date, genuine UK stock with sealed boxes and full warrantys.

Think of the GP2 as a posh Skywatcher EQ3 and the GPD2 as a posh EQ5 (the EQ3, EQ5, etc are essentially copies) with nearly 50% greater load-bearing capacity than the GP-2 and a pre-fitted polarscope. "

[Cornelius Varley]

The Vixen mount has been "copied" by several manufactures , not just Synta (Skywatcher telescopes are manufactured by Synta). You seem to make a lot of assumptions without any evidence. Do you have break down of the manufacturing costs of a Synscan Goto upgrade kit ?

Peter

[Leda]

The Vixen mount has been "copied" by several manufactures , not just Synta (Skywatcher telescopes are manufactured by Synta). You seem to make a lot of assumptions without any evidence. Do you have break down of the manufacturing costs of a Synscan Goto upgrade kit ?

Peter

MY point still stands, they copied them.

I know my 300GBP is firmly in my wallet for a new mount and not a handset.

I know who SW is, I know they're Synta, I know Celestron is Synta too. I know Vixen have been copied by many. You seem to make a lot of assumptions that people do not know what is and what is not.

Why are you so supportive of overpriced handsets from Synta? Do they pay you? If not, why are you going out of your way to defend them so much?

Its overpriced. Deal with it. I have, I ain't buying it

[Stephen]

MY point still stands, they copied them.

and? This isn't exactly breaking news ...

This happens all over with astro kit, and other kit too I imagine?

[Leda]

and? This isn't exactly breaking news ...

This happens all over with astro kit, and other kit too I imagine?

He asked WHO skywatcher copied from, I simply told him, Vixen and backed it up with FLO's statement on the fact posted here on this site.

I don't care who or what they copied, I just think it is overpriced (especially for a copied product and one aimed firmly at the BUDGET MARKET at that - and one riddled with problems).

[Cornelius Varley]

MY point still stands, they copied them.

I know my 300GBP is firmly in my wallet for a new mount and not a handset.

I know who SW is, I know they're Synta, I know Celestron is Synta too. I know Vixen have been copied by many. You seem to make a lot of assumptions that people do not know what is and what is not.

Why are you so supportive of overpriced handsets from Synta? Do they pay you? If not, why are you going out of your way to defend them so much?

Its overpriced. Deal with it. I have, I ain't buying it

Synta can't afford me. If you don't want one don't buy one.

Peter

[Leda]

Synta can't afford me. If you don't want one don't buy one.

Peter

I won't

Not because I don't want one, or need one, it is because I think it is overpriced.

If they lowered the price, other manufacturers would also lower theirs, they are just putting it "a little" below the competitors, which for this handset on this mount, is outside the "budget market" which the mount is aimed at.

[Parus major]

The issue is that you have all the R&D costs, etc as any other thing but you're not selling millions of them and none of the design is based on a previous model which is what the electronics industry is based on. You make it from scratch and it's not mass market.

[malc-c]

I won't

Not because I don't want one, or need one, it is because I think it is overpriced.

If they lowered the price, other manufacturers would also lower theirs, they are just putting it "a little" below the competitors, which for this handset on this mount, is outside the "budget market" which the mount is aimed at.

It's your prerogative as to where and when you spend your money. Your view is that the upgrade is overpriced, fair enough, others might feel it represents good value for money, especially when one of the alternatives cost three times as much as the bog standard EQ5.

But you have counteracted your own argument, in that other companies (synta included) "copied" the Vixen mount, changed a few things and then released it at a lower price, just below the original "competition".

The EQ5 isn't what I would class the "budget" market. Most scopes that come on the EQ5 are typically £400 - £500. The budget end of the retail market is the 114 / 130 range of scopes on the EQ1.

At the end of the day, you've made your choice not to buy.. fair enough.

[Cornelius Varley]

As a comparison to the Synta product. Ioptron goto nova = £299, AWR full goto upgrade = £750.

Peter

[Parus major]

As a comparison to the Synta product. Ioptron goto nova = £299, AWR full goto upgrade = £750.

Peter

It's actually telling that the goto upgrades cost around the same no matter what mount you have, showing that they all cost the same to produce. This is in stark contrast to usual practice of making accessories for expensive things more expensive, regardless of the actual manufacturing cost.

[Cornelius Varley]

Exactly. The Synta/Ioptron kits are less than half the price of a AWR system. I don't know if that makes them half as good or the AWR twice as good.

Peter

[pel]

Hi Leda,

I've been researching this a fair bit and have come to the same conclusion regarding the upgrade compared to buying from scratch.

I would buy new and sell the old kit on Ebay. people are buying used Astronomical gear on there for nearly new prices. I've just seen a used Skywatcher 200p/EQ5 go for £410, £10 more than FLO's new price.

Pel.

[E621Keith]

Vixen.

http://stargazerslounge.com/sponsor-announcements-offers/157803-vixen-gp2-gpd2-mount-promotion.html

"These much copied and highly respected Japanese-made mounts are bang-up-to-date, genuine UK stock with sealed boxes and full warrantys.

Think of the GP2 as a posh Skywatcher EQ3 and the GPD2 as a posh EQ5 (the EQ3, EQ5, etc are essentially copies) with nearly 50% greater load-bearing capacity than the GP-2 and a pre-fitted polarscope. "

The EQ5 is a copy of the GP(2) not GPDX(2), EQ3 is a copy of the much older Polaris. GPD2 is totally different mount, they look similar on the outside, but totally different on the inside. If you think Synta Synscan GOTO upgrade is overpriced, have a look at Vixen D3M dual axis motor kit. £300 for a dual axis drive!!! Look at the cost of Vixen SBS GOTO, it cost twice as much as the Synscan. Synta polarscope cost £35, Vixen GP2's polarscope cost £135.

Skywatcher is good value for money