minimum setup for astroimaging

[pixueto]

Dear all,

After reading for a while about the minimum kit for astrophotography, it seems that the EQ5 won’t do because of the weight of the whole setup with the guiding scope. Someone mentioned that the motors in the HEQ5 are far more precise than those in the EQ5; although some people say that the motors in the EQ5 are just as accurate, the difference being that they go outside the mount. My question is this: providing that the tracking can be as accurate in the EQ5 as in the HEQ5, wouldn’t an off axis guider solve the problem? Also, what about using a less heavy scope (a SW150 for instance) with the EQ5? If it’s all about the stability of the system, surely these two options would solve the problem. Is it so or I’m missing something here?

Thanks for your help

[Carl M]

The difference isn't just that the motors go outside the mount, it's the amount of steps that the motors have. The HEQ5 has 64 steps whereas the EQ5 only has 32.

[pixueto]

Thanks for your repply. Are 32 steps good enough for some kind of astroimaging? What about the weight issue? Would an off axis guider solve the problem?

Thanks

[malc-c]

Part of the problem is the accuracy of the tracking, and the finer the resolution the better, especially if using software to control the mount. But the main issue is weigh and rigidity of the setup, and this is why HEQ5 and EQ6 mounts are recommended.

I have both EQ5 and HEQ5 mounts, and with the 200P the EQ5 is fine for visual but is on it's limit, which was one of the reasons I upgraded to the HEQ5. Having said that there have been some very good astro images taken through a 150P on and EQ3 mount, so imaging on a budget can work. It really depends on what results you want to get, what targets you are aiming for, what camera's you intend to use.

[RikM]

A lot of my images were done with a 150P on an EQ3-2 with the dual axis drives.

You can get images and when just starting out it feels amazing to have captured such beauty, but it takes a lot of effort, you can't get exposures of more than a couple of minutes at best, any kind of breeze moves the scope. I found that quite quickly I wanted to progress and get sharper images of fainter objects with more detail and I couldn't achieve that with that mount.

I got an NEQ6 and a finder guider and the difference in what is possible is incredible. Much sharper, much more detail there really is no comparison. Here are a couple of Pleiades images to show you what I mean. EQ3 vs NEQ6 with all the trimmings. Same scope, camera and observing location.

[RikM]

Wow...only just noticed that these two were taken exactly 1 year apart. 27th November must be Pleiades imaging day

[ollypenrice]

An awful lot depends on your focal length with regard to tracking accuracy.

A short focal length needs a fraction of the accuracy of a long. One reads always about weight but this is only part of the story. If you want to do DS imaging at 3 metres FL you will need a multi thousand pound mount and even then you'll need to know what you're doing with your autoguiding. An NEQ6 will not do. If you want to image at 50mm with a camera lens then unguided on an EQ5 would probably be fine.

If you are working with a marginally accurate mount then you want to keep sub length down and that points to a fast f ratio. And short and fast points to a camera lens, ideally a prime. Older, less fashionable ones go very cheaply and give good results.

You'll hear endlessly that the imaging rig starts with the mount. Not all these oft-repeated mantras are correct but this one most certainly is. Also, don't get the idea that autoguiding is plug and play. I heartily wish it were, though!!

200mm camera lens on a very, very faint object:

Olly

PS, Must go back to the star colour on that image. It's awful!

[Catanonia]

Simple answer is to buy the best mount you can budget for. I went for the NEQ6Pro because I could and was one of the top spec mounts in that range.

Olly is right about the focal length, anything over 1m and you need to have good kit to get long exposure times. Now an OAG will reduce weight and flex so also giving you additional exposure time before noticeable star trails.

I would say a HEQ5 would be a bare minimum I personally would go for to cover weight and future scopes I may want to get, but if you can, just go for the NEQ6 pro and forget about mount problems until you are willing to spend £3000 or more.

[stan26]

Well, astro imaging for me started with a wobbly camera tripod. I haven't progressed very far......I now have an EQ3-2

Seriously (preparing to be shot down here) I think widefield/DSO AP starts with an EQ3-2. I have done 2 minutes + unguided at wide angles and around 40sec subs un-guided @ 500mm with perfectly round stars. But as others have suggested its really down to what you can and are willing to spend. If I could afford an EQ6 pro id have one. Also you need to have realistic expectations. I don't expect my EQ3-2 / ST102 setup to win me picture of the month. Your realistic targets are limited with the lower end mounts. Some dso's require long exposures (i.e 10mins) to get the best out of them. You won't do 10mins with an EQ3-2/5. I'm about to start guiding with my EQ3. I fully believe there is more to be had from this mount.

Here are a couple of un-guided images with my EQ3-2 and ST102.

HTH, Stan

[pixueto]

Thanks guys.

I do get your point about the HEQ5 but unfortunately, for me to spend £700 in a new mount is out of the question for the time being. I just wanted to know if I can try my hand at astrophotography with my current setup (EQ5+8” reflector f5) and see if I enjoy it. The idea would be to learn it by stages: first unguided short exposures then manually guided not so short exposures. Is it possible to get some reasonably good pictures with this setup?

Also, what about using a 80mm refractor on top of the 8” (400mm FL) Newtonian where the Newtonian is the guiding scope? Would the short focal length of the refractor allow me to do imaging without guiding as Olly suggests?

[Quatermass]

All my images this year and last were done with an eq5 fitted with a single ra drive that i got second hand and my 200p before that I useda rubber band and my phone. Its cheap and it produces results im more then happy with see my blog for what can be done with that set up

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[austen4]

Hello,

I recently bought a HEQ5 with a 200p newtonian and I think this is fine. The tracking seems excellent and is definatley sturdy enough for a SW 200p. However most people have extra scopes like a guide scope which I do not have the money for and do not think I will invest in. I have tried some imaging using a 300m lens with my camera on a piggy back mount on the scope and again tracking was fine. I am getting the equipment to image through the foccusser so I suspect there will be no problems there either. I would strongly suggest you looking into buying 2nd hand. I bought mine with motors, polar scope, mount and all accessories for 500 pounds and it had only been used 3 times. Before this scope when I was deciding on what bits and bobs to get someone said to me "you only buy your mount once" unless you have a fair amount of money to spare . I always wondered how a smaller scope like the SW 150P/PDS would cope on an eq5, personally I think it should cope fine but if you wanted extra stuff like guide scopes and other bits then it may not be suitable and the motors do not have a better resolution. To add to this a 150P/PDS is not a bad scope and people IMO have still got some outstanding images from it. Sorry it may have a lot of unrelevent text but I hope it helps!

Good luck in what you choose

[pixueto]

All my images this year and last were done with an eq5 fitted with a single ra drive that i got second hand and my 200p before that I useda rubber band and my phone. Its cheap and it produces results im more then happy with see my blog for what can be done with that set up

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

Quartermass, I had a look at your blog and I’m well impressed with your pictures. Have you done all these with a SW200P? Only RA tracking and no guiding? Really? If you can get this quality with this setup why are there so many people here insisting on spending £700 in a HQ5? I don’t get it; I’m very confused.

By the way is your canon 350 modded?

Thanks

[pixueto]

Well, astro imaging for me started with a wobbly camera tripod. I haven't progressed very far......I now have an EQ3-2

Seriously (preparing to be shot down here) I think widefield/DSO AP starts with an EQ3-2. I have done 2 minutes + unguided at wide angles and around 40sec subs un-guided @ 500mm with perfectly round stars. But as others have suggested its really down to what you can and are willing to spend. If I could afford an EQ6 pro id have one. Also you need to have realistic expectations. I don't expect my EQ3-2 / ST102 setup to win me picture of the month. Your realistic targets are limited with the lower end mounts. Some dso's require long exposures (i.e 10mins) to get the best out of them. You won't do 10mins with an EQ3-2/5. I'm about to start guiding with my EQ3. I fully believe there is more to be had from this mount.

Here are a couple of un-guided images with my EQ3-2 and ST102.

HTH, Stan

Impressive pictures Stan. I think I’m going to have a go with the kit I currently have and see what I can get. I do get the point however that an EQ5 might not be ideal for astroimaging; HEQ5 is the bare minimum, fine but some of you guys are producing wonderful images with an inferior mount. I would be very happy if I can produce something half the quality of your work. My problem is that I’m stuck with an EQ5 and can’t afford to upgrade for the time being. I thought it made sense to go through the learning curve with the equipment I have and learn as much as I can to, in the future, improve the mount if I’m up to the task.

[Quatermass]

I do have an auto guider just have not bothered with it yet as I need to get a dual axis motor drive and modify it to have an st4 port for the auto guider. To be honest my eq5 does a fine job I can get nearly 3 minutes exsposure time with out trailing becoming an issue with a good polar alignment. But if I had the dosh I would get an Eq6. Having said that though how much more are you prepared to spend an eq6 and dedecated ccd camera with an auto guider and guide scope soon breaks the bank and unless your very serious about astrophotography can that kind of outly be justifyable?

Im happy with my set up for now though and content to carry on with it for another year learning as I progress. Every one does things in there own way and there are many ways to do astrophotography way too many for some one starting out. My motto keep it simple.

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[Quatermass]

oh yes eq5 ra drive unguided and a cheap second hand unmodded canon 350d works for me

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[Quatermass]

also the eq5 is not i think a bad mount at all ok its not as great as the eq6 but for the price and with an ra drive you get a lot for your money i love mine to bits. :beer:

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[ollypenrice]

There are some good images from budget kit showing on this thread so I'd suck it and see. Just try to keep the FL short and the F ratio fast. No Maksutovs!!!

Olly

[malc-c]

You see Stan has proved the point I commented on in my post above. Even with smaller portable mounts, and basic equipment (by that I mean humble digital slr cameras and web cams rather than expensive dedicated CCD cameras) you can get really nice results.

However, the EQ5 has a recommended carrying capacity of 9kg. The 200P isn't far off this, especially when you have the added weight of a dSLR. It will work, and under still conditions should be well capable of giving you images like those taken by Stan in his post. But, if you want to venture into the dark side of automated imaging using a guide scope with camera then the HEQ5 is the minimum mount that IMO you'll get await with.

This is my observatory set up:

The EQ5 also has the advantage of being more portable, so transporting the kit to a dark site will give you better results than under a light polluted town, where filtered long exposures work better, which is where the HEQ5 comes into its own

Best bit of advise... next clear night hook up your canon 350 body to the 200p and if you haven't already got one, get a cable release. Read up on polar alignment and try and get it as close as you can. Pick a nice bright star and use a mask to get the camera in focus (masks are around £18 from Keith at Morris Engraving bahtinov ) then select a bright target.... M42, the Orion nebula for starters and engage the motor drive on the RA axis. If your mount is un-driven then we might as well give up now. IMO the bare minimum is a single axis drive is a must for any imaging work. Set the camera to manual and bulb exposure and with the target in the field of view take a single 120 second exposure at ISO 800. You'll be quite pleased with the results, especially if you have a nice dark site, and the air quality is good. Now do the same for M45 and see if you can equal Stans results

If you have access to a computer, then you can improve the results by taking lots of short (say 40 - 90 second) exposures and stack them... but until you experiment and find the sweet spot for getting as much data without stars trailing or rounding a lot of this will be guess work as no two sets of conditions, scopes or camera's are alike.

Hope that helps

[Quatermass]

That just about sums up what my set up does but you also need to learn your image proscessing skills I have a full set of 13 photoshop tutorials on my blog that will help you master just about everything you need to know on that side if things. Portability is important for me too as I often like to take off in the car with my scope.

Hey guys happy christmas hope santa brings you something nice

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[Quatermass]

heres my set up

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[RikM]

Stan has some fab results because he has a small, fast scope and a nice smooth mount, and I suspect put in a lot of hard work. Hats off sir...

More mount, less focal length is the key to an easy life. Give it a go with what you have and have fun with it.