My new Tal 2M!

[paf90]

Having been really pleased with the views I've had so far with my Tal 1, and it's build quality, I went & bought a used Tal 2M for only £100!! it's all present & correct - lens cloth, screwdriver, great big wooden storage boxes etc etc. It's just a shame that the weather has been so poor the last week or so (where I live anyway) I haven't had a chance to try it out yet

As some of you'll know it comes with a fantastic 8x50 finderscope and really good quality plossls - a 40mm, 25mm & 7.5mm + a 4x Barlow.

But crikey, it's big!! I don't know why I didn't realise this when I was struggling to get into the car - with the back seats down it just about fitted - it only started to dawn on me when I was assembling the thing alongside my Tal 1!

Anyway, the wife has been very supportive but funnily enough she's started to talk about changing her Zafira for a 7 seat Shogun as she needs the space (she's a childminder) & the 4WD for the impending snow season here on the edge of the Pennines!

[rawhead]

Nice one

That's a great price for a complete scope with all the bits and bobs.

Now get it pointed at Jupiter...

Cheers

[paf90]

Thanks Rawhead!

Will I notice a big difference in viewing Jupiter compared to the Tal 1? Will there be more detail, a bigger image, or a mixture of both!

BTW I visited your site earlier, there are some great photo's you've taken.

[rawhead]

4.5" @ f/7.3 versus 6'' @ F8

I'd say yes.

The Tal 2 is a great all-rounder.

Had some cracking views of Jupiter with a 5mm EP.

Your 25mm in the X4 barlow should work very nicely

Slightly bigger image showing more detail. (dependent on the seeing!)

You'll need patience at the EP to get the most out of what you are looking at. As my old mate Steelrat used to say, 'There's looking and there's looking...'

Let us know how you get on?

Cheers

[nicnac]

a few pics too pal

[paf90]

Thanks for the interest fellas, I'll report back with some photos as soon as I get a chance.

[AndyH]

Congrats on the purchase. It's a great package, great scope, great mount. The latter can be tuned up to make it even better. It also can take a hell of a load.

Enjoy!!

Andy.

[AndyH]

And yes..............lots of pics please.

[AndyH]

100 crisp notes????

Good God, what a great buy!!

[paf90]

I found it on Gumtree by chance. Another member posted in one of the SGL general sections that there was a 2M for sale for £250. I had a look but with no real intentions of buying as I didn't want to spend that much money just yet (I know, its all relative!). Anyway, there happened to be another 2M being advertised for £150 (no photos) & alot closer to home. I got in touch with the seller, received some photos - it looked fine - and arranged to view it with a little trepidation as I know at this moment in time I still don't know what I'm looking at re. condition of optics etc. When I removed the black plastic dust cover and saw the primary held in the tri pronged fitting I thought it was missing the screwed on end cap that covers the primary mirror (like a Tal 1), it was also out of colimation, and the primary was dusty. On the base feet, the seller had retrofitted a caster through each plastic foot to make it easier to move around but apart from that the EP's are in good condition, as is the finderscope, all the bits are present and correct - screw on filters, screw driver, lens cloth etc. Anyway, I mentioned the missing end cap (incorrectly?) and the colimation (a bit cheeky I know) and they dropped the price to £100! Even with my limited knowledge I thought this would be too good to miss! I also thought afterwards that it was missing the hand controller but since discovered that this was an optional extra - is that right?

Happy days, I think!

[AndyH]

Crazy insane price. Well done.

Yeah, hand controllers(or really, motor correctors) were optional. I think few, if any ever, were for sale in the UK.

I'm going to try n remember, then post a thread of Tal links, which should be of interest to folks with Tal scopes.

I'll also try and find the tune up guide that is of great use if you have the 2M mount. It really does improve the smoothness etc.

Andy.

[paf90]

Thanks AndyH, the links would be really useful. It's a sad day that the Tal User Group is no more.

[AndyH]

Thanks AndyH, the links would be really useful.

Have put up a guide in the mount section. It's rather text heavy, but now my camera has decided to work again, I'll get some pics added.

I hope it's of some help. Feedback would be appreciated as I'm not terribly good at getting info from my bonce to the page.

Andy.

[paf90]

Thanks Andy, I'll go and have a read later and report back!

TBH I'm struggling a little with some of the aspects of using the mounts. With the Tal 1 I tend to slew it into position and then use the slow motion knobs to keep the object in view - I did ensure the finderscope and OTA were correctly aligned - but it feels sommetimes that although this seems to be a working solution there's probably a better way of doing it. This is what worries me with the 2M, will I damage the motor trying to use it like a Tal 1? What really is the best way to set it up etc etc.

[Quark]

£100 Cheap as chips proper bargain, let us know how you get on with it:D

[AndyH]

This is the way I use mine.

At the start of each session, I align the finder with the scope, then roughly polar align(the better the polar alignment, the less you need to use the DEC slo-mo wheel to keep the object centred when tracking).

It's perfectly safe to move the scope about by hand with the motor on, but whenever I go near the RA slo-mo wheel, I click the motor off. Whilst in theory(if the motor clutch is set up correctly), the motor can be left on while you're using the RA wheel, I like to err on the side of caution.

So, I roughly centre the object by moving the scope in RA & DEC by hand, then, with a hand on the RA slo-mo wheel and the other on the DEC one, I try and centre the object in the finder. Then I move my eye to the eyepiece in the scope, again using the wheels, get the object centred, then click the motor on.

Andy.

[paf90]

Right, a bit of an update.

It's now been colimated; I've never had to do this before but as you all would've told me it's a doddle. One fun part was that on the secondary mirror one of the screws didn't seem to fit particularly well leading to the secondary disappearing completely from view when looking down the finderscope when I was trying to adjust it with the screwdriver! So I removed the vane and adjusted the 3 screws and put it back in. I took the primary out, there's one very small area on the edge of the mirror that would need re-coating but I guess that would make no difference to the performance (it doesn't seem too in use). It's dusty and gently using the supplied lens cloth doesn't want to clean up so would this be a job for the pure soap suds and distilled water?

Regarding the motor drive, there's power and the slow mo hand wheels rotate but the scope doesn't move. I took off the back cover and the 2 smaller cogs are meshing and turning but the larger wheel isn't; if I follow the instructions in the manual on p19 - '6.1 Operation with telescope' will this fix it?

It also had casters fitted to it which were bolted through the plastic feet in 4 places with two of the bolts going through the casting itself, these have been removed as they didn't seem to fulfill the purpose intended, made the mount slightly less stable and were a bit of an eyesore!

I'll be keen to know anyones advice on the lack of motor movement and the cleaning of the primary .

[jamespels]

Something to check - with the back off, does the brass cog around the RA axis rotate when you turn the slo-mo wheels? If so, chances are the clutch is just loose - use the three bolts in the circular plate on the back of the plate on the back of the RA axis to adjust this (clockwise to tighten).

If the brass cog does not turn, check the worm drive is engaging correctly - if not, post back on here.

I have just finished sripping down my own 2M mount (many thanks to Andy H for the guidance during this process!) and am about to start photgraphing the reassembly of the RA and dec axes. I'll post that on the equiment forum on here, probably in about two weeks or thereabouts.

If you are still stuck next month, bring it over to PSP2011 and we can take a look.

Incidentally, the black slot-head screws holding the mount together are pain in the backside (I have stripped more of them than are left intact) and I am replacing them with black hex head equivalents (following a suggestion on the TAL social group on here - now sadly defunct so I cannot credit a person). I have a pack of 10 off M3 x 6mm and a pack of 20 off M3 x 12mm for £5.75 including recorded deliver postage from here: High Tensile Socket Cap Screws, Allen Key Screws, Machine Screws, Nylon Nuts, Washers,button,countersunk,. I only placed the order today so I don't know how reliable they are yet but will let you know. Failing that, RS (RS Components | Electronic and Electrical Components) do similar screws in packs of 100 and also stock any bearings you may need.

J.

[jamespels]

Regarding cleaning the primary, it is front faced so go with minimum possible contact. If you do use a cloth, let the weight of the cloth do the work - if you press the cloth down at all, you risk seriously damaging the mirror. Also, remember to wipe radially from centre to rim - never use a circular motion.

My mirror is also caked in muck and I am planning to soak in warm soapy water, then rinse off with distilled water and drip / air dry. I haven't tried this before and will update when I have seen how well it works!

[jamespels]

OK, have now cleaned the primary...

The warm water and soap option was not too effective for me, leaving a lot of muck on the mirror. I think this is partly down to where the scope is kept - in the conservatory which is connected directly to the kitchen with no separating door so I suspect this is allowing it to get a little greasy.

Anyway, I used a brand new Calotherm micro-fibre lens cloth (as sold by most opticians for not very much) to very gently wipe the lens in a radial motion with a fairly think mix of mild washing up liquid and warm water (using pressure from the weight of the folded cloth only). This did the trick nicely and introduced no new scratches at all that I can see (sadly it came with two very fine scratches - nothing I am going to worry about, though).

I rinsed the mirror first with luke-warm water and then with distilled water then drip / aire dried.

The mirror is now very clean. A few specs can be seen under very close inspection but they are so feint I do not think the slight pay-off of cleaning them off is worth the risk of damaging the mirror surface.

The mirror is very easy to remove: place the OTA horizontally on a flat surface, then undo the three slot screws at the primary end. These hold the mirror cell in place so it can be removed when they are loose. The cell stays in contact with the inner wall of the OTA for quite a way so there is no danger of it falling and damaging the mirror - that said, it is best to hold the cell by the central structure as you remove the screws. The mirror is held in the cell by three padded clips screwed into cell at the side. Loosening or removing the screws (careful - they are small) allows the clips to be moved out of the way and the mirror to be lifted carefully off the cell. The mirror is a tight fit against soft pads all round so it needs to be lifted out vertically but this is straightforward. To reassemble, just alow the mirror to dry thoroughly and reverse this procedure.

HTH,

J.

[paf90]

Many thanks Jamespels for those last few posts, and to you AndyH for the instructions in the 'Mount' section of the forum, both have been very helpful!

I haven't had chance since my last post to check the motor again and with a 2 day sales conference Thursday & Friday this week and then being away all of next week as well, I guess I won't get the chance to for a while

However on my return I'll give it a go & also clean the mirror up - I've removed it previously from the tube end to have a closer look but not from the 3 retaining clips so thanks again for the advice on how to do that without incident!

Once I've done all that I'll be back on asking on what's the best way to clean EP lens's!

[rawhead]

Don't forget to centre spot the primary for later collimation

[paf90]

Don't forget to centre spot the primary for later collimation

Thanks Rawhead for that. How easy is that to do/What do I do?

[rawhead]

Dion does a nice job here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/primers-tutorials/108923-how-center-spot-primary.html

[paf90]

I knew there was something else I wanted to ask!

The 2M came with the following EP's - a 40mm, a 25mm, & a 7.5mm; although it doesn't say in the manual I'm assuming these are 2 Plossls and a Kellner. It also came with a Barlow; now I've seen on the latest specs that the latest models are supplied with a 4x, so I assumed that's what mine is but looking at the Specification listing in the supplied manual suggests something different but this is where I'm now getting confused!

If I roughly quote the section ~

- 40mm ep = x30

- 25mm ep = x47

- 7.5mm ep = x60 (I think this is a typo & should read x160)

- 40mm + Barlow = x95

- 25mm + Barlow = x158

- 7.5mm + Balrow = x317

The 'scope focal length is 1200mm, so I can make sense of the ep's but the multiplications with the Barlow doesn't make sense to me as it is different for each EP.

Can someone please explain?