finally! my first DSO image!

[willcastle]

andromeda taken last night! looks like another galaxy at the top... could be m32? but im not sure!

[spaceboy]

Very nice image Willcastle. What set up were you using ?

[willcastle]

thanks! i couldnt believe it turned out so well for my first image... its not amazing but its a start

i used my skywatcher 200p, eq5 mount with motordrive and a nikon d40

[spaceboy]

Is it a single shot and what was the exposure time?

[rocketandroll]

The little galaxy at the top is M110, a satellite galaxy of M31. M32 looks like a bright but fuzzy star just below the central core of M31.

Nice shot :-)

Ben

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[spaceboy]

fuzzy star just below the central core of M31.

Can you please circle M32 as I can't make out where it is.

[willcastle]

thats what i was thinking.... i cant see m31... strange

and its about 25 3o second frames... so short exposures and a small number of frames

unfortunately i dont have a shutter remote yet so its rather impractical for me to hold down the button on the camera for ages!

[rocketandroll]

Ok, just compared your shot to a widefield of M31, you are right, it's inverted, the small galaxy at the top of the image is indeed M32... M110 is off the bottom right about a quarter of a frame.

With M31 it's always hard to judge scale, the feint bits of it are so massive... it's only those two dust lanes you can see below the core of the galaxy that really allow you to work out how much of it you're seeing :-)

Sorry for the confusion! :-)

Ben

[rocketandroll]

Here you go....

I've turned yours upside down and overlaid it and scaled it over the top of my widefield shot of the whole galaxy so that the orientation and scale roughly match.

You can see M110 top left of the galaxy in my widefield shot... so that should show roughly where it is in comparison with yours.

It really is a MASSIVE object :-)

Sorry if I confused things by thinking it was the other way up, as I said, those two dust lanes are the only real giveaway on orientation.

Ben

[PhoenixRising]

Nice one Willcastle.

Framings good, some of the dust trails are starting to show, and no star trails. Well done, alot better than my first attempt (its in my albums if you fancy a laugh!) A programmable remote shutter will make a big difference for you. You could prob push up to 1 minute subs. And if you use a programmable remote shutter, you dont have to stand there freezing!

[spaceboy]

Thank you for clearing up my confusion Ben

[willcastle]

!!!! wow thanks for that ben.... errr.... slight problem... i didnt realise it was so darn huge! i wasnt using any lenses (used a t ring straight onto the ota) so i assumed it would be a low magnification.... how on earth am i supposed to fit the whole galaxy in?! its ginormous!

[SimonfromSussex]

Great first pic. Have you tried processing it at all in photoshop or GIMP? I'm just starting out like you so learning all the time. A focal reducer will give you a wider field of view. It screws onto the end of the t-adaptor but i tried this on Sat with a friend who has the same scope as you and we didn't then have enough inward travel on the focus.

[rocketandroll]

!!!! wow thanks for that ben.... errr.... slight problem... i didnt realise it was so darn huge! i wasnt using any lenses (used a t ring straight onto the ota) so i assumed it would be a low magnification.... how on earth am i supposed to fit the whole galaxy in?! its ginormous!

Yeah, it is a MASSIVE object :-)

That was one of the first things I learnt earlier this year when starting DSO imaging.... there is no 'one scope fits all' solution for all the targets you'll want to capture.

An ED80 doublet or triplet type scope is a pretty good bet for starters as it's about right for most nebulae etc... but most galaxies (well, everything except M31 to be honest :-) really need much more focal length to get anything other than a small swirly looking dot :-)

Ideally, to cover all bases... you need a scope around the 1m+ fl range to get galaxies, globular clusters and planetary nebulae (an 8" Newtonian or a 5" or so refractor) a 70 - 80mm refractor with a 450 - 600mm fl for the nebulae and larger structures... and then something like a 200 - 300mm lens (ideally a nice prime lens) to capture the really big stuff.

I told someone at a star party earlier this year I wanted to try and capture the whole of Andromeda in one frame, they said I should get a 200mm lens.... and that longer fl than 200mm would crop it. That isn't technically right, seems you could get it all in at a fl of about 350mm to 400mm at a push. 200mm gives it a nice setting in a star field though which is quite pleasing.

With your scope... you really only have one option (other than getting a smaller scope :-) is to do a mosaic. Capture a couple of hours of data of the left hand edge of the galaxy, another two hours on the core, and another two hours on the right hand edge... then stitch them together in software.

That's what I'm planning next with Andromeda I think... though through my ED80 so probably only two pannels required.

Ben

[willcastle]

ah there was me thinking id found an excellent scope for DSO work.... im kind of confused though! does this mean that even when im viewing at 40x (my smallest eyepiece) that andromeda stretches further than the field of view?! i just assumed that by attaching the camera directly to the scope... the field of view would be really wide and it would all fit in the shot... i guess im just gonna have to try a mosaic... iv heard about various different software that let you set them up and they take photos for you over the period of time you set... one for example is IRIS that iv just downloaded... but apparently i need certain cables to connect from my camera to the laptop? my camera is a nikon d40 so its probably harder to set this all up than some of the newer and more advanced models... it just seems alot better setting it up on my laptop instead of sitting outside pressing a button.... waiting for the shot to be ready for about a minute.... then pressing it again.... for hours on end.... any advice?

[SlipperySquid]

Looking at you image I'm thinking it may be slightly out of focus? Do you use a Bahtinov mask? They really are great bits of kit for getting focus right in a few seconds and only cost about £14.

I also use a 200p mate and they are great scopes for imaging (But not in the wind!)

Matt.

[rocketandroll]

ah there was me thinking id found an excellent scope for DSO work.... im kind of confused though! does this mean that even when im viewing at 40x (my smallest eyepiece) that andromeda stretches further than the field of view?! i just assumed that by attaching the camera directly to the scope... the field of view would be really wide and it would all fit in the shot... i guess im just gonna have to try a mosaic... iv heard about various different software that let you set them up and they take photos for you over the period of time you set... one for example is IRIS that iv just downloaded... but apparently i need certain cables to connect from my camera to the laptop? my camera is a nikon d40 so its probably harder to set this all up than some of the newer and more advanced models... it just seems alot better setting it up on my laptop instead of sitting outside pressing a button.... waiting for the shot to be ready for about a minute.... then pressing it again.... for hours on end.... any advice?

Your field of view at prime focus with any scope is determined by the focal length. Iirc a 200p is just over a meter? To get all if M31 in, as I said, you really need about 300 to 400mm.

Don't worry though... For 90% of what you'll want to shoot... The extra focal length will be a god send. M31 is just about the biggest dso you can shoot :-)

As for the shutter control... A laptop with dslr control software on it us one option... A digital remote for the camera is another. I have one for my 350D which cost about £20 and allows you to set up to 999 exposures of any length to shoot in sequence. You can just leave it running till the batteries run down :-)

Btw... The slight movement in your shot may be from the mirror flip. You should be able to turn on 'mirror lock' on the camera so the mirror locks up a couple if seconds before the shutter opens to avoid that little 'wobble'.

Ben

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[Skiddins]

Here you go....

I've turned yours upside down and overlaid it and scaled it over the top of my widefield shot of the whole galaxy so that the orientation and scale roughly match.

You can see M110 top left of the galaxy in my widefield shot... so that should show roughly where it is in comparison with yours.

It really is a MASSIVE object :-)

Sorry if I confused things by thinking it was the other way up, as I said, those two dust lanes are the only real giveaway on orientation.

Ben

[ATTACH]64608[/ATTACH]

What sort of magnification would be required to see the galaxy as you've shown in your montage?

Skiddins

[willcastle]

Your field of view at prime focus with any scope is determined by the focal length. Iirc a 200p is just over a meter? To get all if M31 in, as I said, you really need about 300 to 400mm.

Don't worry though... For 90% of what you'll want to shoot... The extra focal length will be a god send. M31 is just about the biggest dso you can shoot :-)

As for the shutter control... A laptop with dslr control software on it us one option... A digital remote for the camera is another. I have one for my 350D which cost about £20 and allows you to set up to 999 exposures of any length to shoot in sequence. You can just leave it running till the batteries run down :-)

Btw... The slight movement in your shot may be from the mirror flip. You should be able to turn on 'mirror lock' on the camera so the mirror locks up a couple if seconds before the shutter opens to avoid that little 'wobble'.

Ben

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so the fact my scope is a low f5 for viewing has nothing to do with it? does the focal length come from the camera diameter? eg 35 mm then?

and a 350d is that a cannon? can u get these digital remotes for a fairly primative nikon d40? because that sounds much better than dragging my laptop outside for hours!

and ahh i think i saw that mirror lock setting so il give it a go! thanks for all the advice... maybe when i get my guidescope i should try and take some images of andromeda through that... as its a short tube refractor it should fit it all in

[rocketandroll]

so the fact my scope is a low f5 for viewing has nothing to do with it? does the focal length come from the camera diameter? eg 35 mm then?

and a 350d is that a cannon? can u get these digital remotes for a fairly primative nikon d40? because that sounds much better than dragging my laptop outside for hours!

and ahh i think i saw that mirror lock setting so il give it a go! thanks for all the advice... maybe when i get my guidescope i should try and take some images of andromeda through that... as its a short tube refractor it should fit it all in

Hi mate...

f5 is the focal ratio, not the focal length...

Don't worry, I've only been doing this for a few months and it all still confuses the HELL out of me :-)

f5 is essentially the 'speed' of the scope, the lower the f number the more light it can gather in a given amount of time... it's a product of the focal length AND the aperture (diameter) of the scope, plus how the optics are arranged. F5 is GOOD for imaging, faster the better.

focal LENGTH is the actual distance the light from your target travels from when it enters the scope to when it hits the focal plane (the CCD chip in your camera in this case).

The longer the focal length, the higher the apparent 'magnification' of the scope and the narrower the field of view. Imagine it as looking through a toilet roll, versus looking through a kitchen roll... the shorter tube gives you a wider field of view out of the end because of the angles.

As for the 350D, yes, it's a Cnon Eos, but an old one...

I've done a bit of a search and it seems for some reason that timer remotes might not exist for the D40... when I did a Google search on 'Nikon D40 timer remote' a load of threads on this forum came up, mainly people asking where such a thing could be found.

There are some generic Nikon digital remotes on Amazon but they don't seem to list the D40 as one of the cameras they are compatable with :-(

You may have to do some more digging....

Sorry that's not much help having made the suggestion :-)

Ben

[rocketandroll]

What sort of magnification would be required to see the galaxy as you've shown in your montage?

Skiddins

Mine's not a montage.... I've not had the time to start on my M31 motage just yet unfortunately.

That image was taken with a 200mm Canon L-series prime lens.

No dedicated astro scopes have a focal length as short as 200mm. IIRC there are some 60 - 70mm diameter high end scopes (Borg?) that are around the 300 - 350mm focal length range?

To get the whole of M31 in a single frame, you are really looking at a camera lens rather than a telescope.

As mentioned, anything around the 200 - 300mm ratio should be about right.

Camera lenses generally have the advantage of being very fast too :-) This lens is f2.8 but I was using it at f4. once you're up to the f7+ fr of small refractors you'd be needing at least two or three times as much data to get the same result. A few hours at least.

Ben

[willcastle]

thanks for being so helpful ben

i have a much better idea whats going on now!

and yer it appears i can only get a really basic shutter remote for the D40 but it does have a huge advantage by the looks of it.... with my camera i have to hold the button for long exposures but with the remote u can click the shutter open with the remote.... then u have to re-click it to close the shutter! so much better! and less camera wobble! and its only about £3 so i cant go wrong with one of those!

have you ever tried taking an image through your ST80? as thats the same guidescope i want and it might make an interesting experiment

[rocketandroll]

Hey Will

Yep, if it means you don't have to 'touch' the camera during exposures thats a huge bonus.

I'm actually just waiting for the ST80 to be delivered, tomorrow hopefully.

I've images through the 80ED, the ST80 has a slightly shorter focal length (500mm instead of 600 for the 80ED) and of course its a single lens rather than the doublet in the ED so it'll be s bit distorted round the edges. Should work though.

Ben

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