Deisler

6 hours ago, jetstream said:

At f6 it should look something more like this

Yes. I will try to re-do the collimation over the next week. Clear Outside APP shows I will have no clear skies over the next 10 days so I will have plenty of time playing with my P200 inside!

@John @Stu

Wow you guys are so knowledgable! Very interesting.

I guess that is a no-go for me  

5 hours ago, jetstream said:

You most likely did see it- trying more magnification on M31 could help. Also what do you collimate with?

This was the pic I took with my phone when I collimated it a week ago. Checked last night - it remained the same.

I did it with the red Cheshire EP.

6 hours ago, Louis D said:

You more than likely found M31's core.  As can be seen below, if you can see M32 and/or M110, you can see M31 as much brighter and bigger than either in the same field of view.  From my own observing from my light polluted backyard, all I can see is the core of M31 (the pure white part below) and the cores of M32 and M110 as slightly larger than stellar light patches.  If you don't know what to look for and where to look for them, M32 and M110 can be easily overlooked in light polluted skies at lower powers.  Try increasing the power on that faint galaxy you found to see if you can resolve its companions as non-stellar.

I can only see one faint 'galaxy'-like object at the direction of andromeda galaxy. I tried to search for others but no success.

Because of the relatively small size of the object I saw (it was oval-shaped), I thought it was M32 or M110, as I expected M31 to be much bigger than that. But having seen your post made me realise what I saw was indeed M31, perhaps only the core of it. 

I did try to use my stock 10mm to see it, but the image becomes really poor. Will try with BST EP when they arrive.

10 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Cross "flares" or diffraction spikes are feature of reflecting telescope that has spider support of secondary mirror. It has nothing to do with eyepiece.

Take your 25mm eyepiece and point a scope to very bright star - you should be able to see it as well. You can also see it in images like this one:

Just look around internet for astro images - and you will find images with stars that have cross shape.

Outer field in Panaview can suffer from what is called coma as well - this is related again to telescope design and nothing to do with eyepiece (but wide field long focal length eyepieces make it more visible). It looks like this:

Main fault of the eyepiece will be "seagull" like star shapes at the edges, a bit like this:

Or combined with above coma - more like this (wings come from astigmatism and tail from coma):

Thank you. Certainly interesting stuff for me to learn.

I did find 'seagull' pattern at the edge of the view - it did not bother me that much as I don't really look for them.

Did not notice Coma - I will try to see if I can find them. 

Is there a way to mitigate the 'diffraction spikes' as I found them distract my view a lot, particularly for those dim stars next to a very bright one?

Just to report back to you guys:

Today I received my Panaview 30mm 2'' used, bought from a fellow stargazer here and tried it this evening (-3 degree outside  ). Gave my telescope 1 good hour to cool down. Good clear sky condition.

Here is my take on Panaview 30mm 2'':

Pro:  Had a look through Panaview - the wide field view is amazing, much wider than my stock 25mm EP. I really enjoyed just randomly pointing my 200P to the sky and viewing those stars. I spent 30 mins or so, trying to find Andromeda galaxy - to my disappointment I did not manage to see it. But I did see a faint 'galaxy' near there - I suspect it was M110 but it could be M32 I am not so sure. Then I found M45 - with Panaview I can include entire M45 in my view - very nice indeed. I also saw the double star, Mizar/Alcor, although the flare (see below) was not ideal.

Con: The view quality is not much better than stock 25mm (at least I cannot tell). I do find at the outer 20% view, the stars tend to have 'wings', which is completely expected as many people already mentioned that. However most bright stars also tend to have 'cross' flares, even when they are at the centre of view. I found it quite annoying. Not sure it is the EP or something else? Checked collimation, it looked ok.

Conclusion: I am very happy with it, but could be happier if the flare issues can be resolved?

BTW - I think I will need a height-adjustable bar chair - Finding andromeda definitely hurt my back! Also, my telrad got dew after a few minutes and I could not see anything through it, but I can already tell it is far better than my stock finder!

Regards

Deisler

Thank you guys. Very useful advice!

I have ordered my BST EPs as early Christmas gift. I will look for some 2nd hand filters, which I don't think are essential to me now. I will probably buy a few , 2nd hand, so if I don't like them, I can re-sell them without losing too much money.

I have also bought a phone holder from Amazon, inspired by @Stu and his luna images. Hope to do some with my Huawei phone.

Cheers,

Deisler

Back to my previous question regards filter, if I may -

Last two sessions when I viewed the moon (close to full moon), I felt very uncomfortable as my left eye was left with a bright white spot even 30 mins after I came back in. I know it is not ideal to view full moon, but I think I might have to buy a filter to make sure my kids feel comfortable with the brightness.

It would be great the same filter would work for planetary view too. Even greater if galaxy/large DSO, but not essential.

I have seen many people recommended "Baader Neodymium Filter" which "Intensifies surface details on Mars, Jupiter and Moon – and enhances many Deep Sky galaxies and nebulae against the background sky.. ''. Sound ideal for me.

Is it a OIII or UHC, or neither?

Any recoomendation you can give for the problem I have.

Regards

Deisler

5 hours ago, John said:

If you want to try a low / wide 2 inch eyepiece for a smallish outlay, this has just popped up in our classifieds and seems a decent deal:

 

Bought it. Thanks!

Now will order my BST EPs (5mm and 15mm) from FLO and they should make me happy for a while.

3 hours ago, heliumstar said:

To the OP.

Read your post a few times and I feel that whatever compromise you make now you will not be happy. You have issues with 'high power' eyepiece. Just get one 8-10mm eyepiece that will be your high power eyepiece for now - something like Baader Morpheus 9mm - with that one there are no compromises. If you stretch a little 9mm Nagler for example. Spend all the budget on that one eyepiece. Save and buy more later.

Baader Morpheus 9mm looks a great EP! Unfortunately I dont think I will spend that much on a single EP as my first EP. Maybe as my next upgrade.

Cheers both @John @Louis D

And with John's review back in 2010

 I am leaning towards Aero 2'' than Baader Aspheric 2''. 

I assume 30mm is better than 35 or 40mm, as 30mm is near the 'upper limit'?

@Louis D @John

Hi I wonder if you have used Baader Hyperion Aspheric 2'' 31mm? Seen people recommended it as wide field low-power EP a lot.

More specifically, how is it compared to Aero 2'' 30mm or even APM UFF 30mm? 

Cheers

14 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Now that we're talking about low power 2" eyepieces, I'll add that found the 35mm Aero ED to be quite usable, but definitely not perfect.  It has nearly the maximum true field of view available in a 2" eyepiece.  I haven't tried the 30mm Aero ED because I've got the 30mm APM UFF which would be hard to improve upon.  Below are some comparison photos I took of and through my wider eyepieces to give you some idea of what to expect.

 

Hi Louis,

May I ask if the distortion at left-right boundaries of the visible part of the ruler was because of the image taken by a camera, or it will look like that visually?

The Aero one does seem to have very bad distortion at boundaries.

Cheers

Hi guys,

Just to summarise what I have learnt so far from great advice you guys have given me and what I decide to do for my EP upgrade -

1) will get BST StarGuider 60º 5mm/15mm ED EPs - ~£45 each

2) will get a wide field low-power EP, currently leaning towards Aero 2'' 30mm (£100), but 32mm GSO Plossl (£33) is much cheaper but with some negative comments (like distorted view). 

3) will get a filter - still need to research this topic, i.e. UHC v.s OIII;

4) Next, probably in a six months time, I will buy a TV barlow or a TV PM, depending on if I need greater eye relief on my BST EPs.

Re. the wide field low-power EP, can you guys comment on 'Aero 2'' 30mm vs 32mm GSO 1.25'' vs other options' for my 200P Dob? 

I quite enjoy low-power view (through my stock 25mm) and found it very relaxing - so I want to buy a good one that will always be in my EP case. Any advice?

Cheers

Deisler

34 minutes ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

This is a very good question. x240 is probably the maximum magnification that you would be able to use on a semi regular basis. If you go for an 8mm, you will  be able to use it more often but you won't be able to push the magnification when you have a very good night which might be frustrating. These EPs will be used mainly for the moon, the planets, globular clusters and double stars. 

If you plan to get a Barlow at some point maybe you won't need the 8mm (15mm/2=7.5mm).

Sorry for not giving you a definitive answer. I got the 5mm first but was really happy when I got an 8mm... Then I realised that 11mm would be nice too and bought a Nagler.... now contemplating buying a 30mm APM UFF.

The quests for the right set of EPs for you is long and difficult and in the end it is very likely that you end up with a 5mm and an 8mm. Deciding what you want first is a matter of "do I feel the need to be able to push my scope to its limits when the weather is right or do I want an EP that I would use more often". I know I felt the need to be able to push the scope but I'm pretty many on SGL would advise against that.

yeah that makes perfect sense. I think I will go for 5mm EP, skipping 8mm for now. Then if I really want 8mm, I can always get a decent barlow later.

6 minutes ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

Bortle 5 isn't that bad actually (I live in Bortle 9). UHC works well under a light polluted sky but will yield even better results under dark skies. My advice is to try to go to a dark place at least every once in a while ... it's worth it if you can manage

I surely will!

One quick question if you don't mind - re 'BST EPs' - do you think I should get a 5mm or 8mm, in addition to 15mm EP? 5mm will give me 240x mag, which I assume is for planetary view? Would 5mm also be useful for moon view? or 8mm maybe more useful for both planetary and moon?

I probably will only buy one high-power EP at this stage. 

2 hours ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

I know its all relative and depends on one's taste but I will tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes (and I was not long ago).

So, for £200, I would get BST Starguiders 5mm and 15mm, a GSO/Revelation 32mm Plossl and instead of the Barlow I would get a decent UHC filter (Explore Scientific sells for £44 at FLO).

Hi,

May I ask if the UHC filter works well in light polluted sky? My postcode has Bortle number 5.

Cheers

Deisler

Just now, Raph-in-the-sky said:

One more thing to consider...have you got a Telrad finder? This is one of my favorite accessories !

Yes sir. I bought it but not yet used it. I used the stock finderscope and found it very difficult to hop between stars. I tried to follow bright stars in Andromeda to locate the galaxy but it is almost impossible for an inexperienced observer to do. I heard Telrad will help me a lot, so I certainly look forward to using it!

I am waiting for my plastic band to arrive tomorrow so I can fix it onto the tube. I don't like to apply the glue thing straight away as I fear I might do something wrong to ruin my tube. Maybe I am just being too cautious. 

Thanks

1 hour ago, John said:

In pure optical terms the differences might be slight or non existent . Barlows can vignette the field of view of eyepieces with wide field stops and push the eye relief outwards a bit. Powermates and Telextenders don't have these effects. There are other telextender options which cost less than Tele Vue though. The Explore Scientific 2x Focal Extender is one that is very good.

 

 

Thank you, John. I will read some reviews about ES 2x Focal extender. It is currently £76 from FLO, saving £100 off TV PM. With that saving I probably can buy a nice Wide Field 30mm (like Aero 2'')? Certainly a great option!

1 hour ago, estwing said:

You don't need one ....listen to john and take his advice....or you'll end up like me!!!

Is yours 1.25'' or 2'' Powermate? I know Powermate is not small but I did not expect that size  

That Ethos is a monster!

1 hour ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

I know its all relative and depends on one's taste but I will tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes (and I was not long ago).

So, for £200, I would get BST Starguiders 5mm and 15mm, a GSO/Revelation 32mm Plossl and instead of the Barlow I would get a decent UHC filter (Explore Scientific sells for £44 at FLO).

Thank you for your reply, Sir.

Could you please elaborate a bit on 'instead of Barlow' -

I assume you meant Barlow may not be that important if I can have 5/10(stock)/15/25(stock)/32 EPs? 

11 hours ago, Whistlin Bob said:

Tricky because it's all about personal preference. 

I was warned off the zoom due to fov, but then I borrowed one and was completely converted. The convenience with them of being able to instantly slide up and down the magnification greatly increases my enjoyment.

I have a 30mm aero, a Baader zoom, a 7mm celestron Xcel and some WO bino viewers along with a couple of Barlow's. I'd say the zoom is in for about 60% of my viewing.

Good condition ones come up second hand quite frequently.

Thank you. I think I will wait for 2-3 weeks to see if I can get a 2nd hand Baader Zoom.

If not, I will grab the 10% off deal from FLO on Tele Vue and go for their Barlow or PM with 1 or 2 BST.

11 hours ago, John said:

My regular eyepieces are Tele Vue and Pentax but I've owned and used a few BST Starguiders and I think they are really pretty good eyepieces for their cost (£50 new, £30 or so on the used market).

The BST's are a significant improvement over the stock eyepieces in my opinion. Going beyond them to, say, £100 - £200 apiece eyepieces and the peformance gains are much smaller.

Your £200 would get you 4 focal lengths in the BST Starguider range, or 3 plus a barlow lens. The Baader zoom is pretty good as well but the field of view at the 24mm focal length is limited so you would need something like a 30mm NPL plossl to get those wider / low power views and also something shorter such as a 6mm for the higher powers that the scope is capable of. Budget blown a bit I suspect !

The Powermates are superb but one swallows up most of your budget and Powermating the stock eyepieces is not going to turn them into great eyepieces I fear.

Thank you.

I have checked many threads here about TV Barlow vs TV Powermate. I understand the major differences, i.e. the eye relief. How much gain in visual I can expect between TV Barlow and PM?

Am I right to say Powermate is a better long-term buy as I will never need to replace it? If so, I'd rather buy the Powermate. 

10 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I'd stick with your stock 25mm for now and buy a 17.5mm Baader Morpheus. It is a fantastic eyepiece and it barlows wonderfully, so you'll have a mid range wide field, and with a 2X Delux SW barlow, a good power for globular clusters etc. The Morpheus range of eyepieces are well worth considering as they deliver 70° Pentax XW sharpness without the troublesome kidney bean black out issue.  Although the Hyperion zoom is nice, I'd be more inclined to go for the standard Hyperion range. The 24mm is excellent and can match the performance of some of the very best at a much lower price. 

Baader Morpheus seems to have very positive reviews! It is £189 a piece from FLO at the moment - a bit too expensive for me. But I will definitely keep an eye on them - they might be my ultimate goal (I dont think I will ever move up to those super expensive TV EPs). 

Cheers

@vlaiv @Louis D @Rob  Thank you. I've done my collimation with Cheshire EP. Although I am sure my collimation is nowhere near perfect, it should be fine.

At next session, I will check and make sure the weather condition is fine and consistent so I can do more comparison. As far as I remember, at last two sessions, there was no cloud and I did make sure I avoided looking at the moon near my neighbour's roof. But I will report back.

Thank you for the advice. Really appreciate them.