david_taurus83

I have a Pegasus Power Box Ultimate which reads out voltage and current draw. Also have a multi meter that can loop around a cable, like the one Cuiv uses in his video. Both of those aren't accurate at all and the figures jump around the place. The PBB was £500! I was a bit put off the £65 price tag on the ProLogik but decided to get one anyway after I rebuilt my mount. I have no regrets about buying the ProLogik. That £65 is long forgotten when you see those guiding graphs.

Best thing I've done with it so far. Guiding has been great. I used to always get messages saying dithering settle timeout. Everything just works properly now.

What camera is it? It looks like condensation. 

My first camera was a 600D and Magic Lantern worked absolutely fine. The intervalometer and bulb timer are the only things you'll really use on there anyway. Also works fine with my 6D.

I already posted my first light attempts with this camera here: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/395575-another-asi533mm-first-light-nellys-trunk/

I collected more data on this again last night but not processed yet. Thought I would start a new thread in here anyway for all things 533 mono related. I will start with the hiccups I had when first connecting.

Swapping the Atik 460. The Atik has a female M42 thread on the camera and is quoted as around 13mm back spacing. The ASI has the usual 6.5mm from the body so I used the M42/M48 ring to connect to a 7.5mm M48 spacer I already have which gave me 14mm back space. I just needed to buy a female M48 adapter for the Starlight filterwheel. Despite the 1mm difference my OAG is still in good focus and star shapes are nice and round with the ASI.

Test shots in NINA. This is where I started encountering issues. After connecting fine at first, after a couple of test shots I got my first image download error. I recycled the USB ports on my Pegasus Power Box and reconnected. Somehow NINA connected the ASI120 guide camera in its place but said I was connected to the 533. I tried changing USB speed settings, different cables, different ports, driver updates etc all with intermittent connectivity issues or image download problems. I eventually tried Sharpcap and this seemed to work fine and I managed to polar align the mount. Switch back to NNA and had issues again. Eventually I worked out that it doesn't like (or NINA doesn't like it) to be connected via the Pegasus Power Box. The PBB is USB3 but I have that connected to a Startech USB2 to ethernet device. I connected the camera directly to the Startech hub and the issue virtually went away. A small irritation but not a deal breaker as can still switch the camera on and off via the PBB power ports.

Cool down time. Though I usually set NINA to allow 10 minutes for both cool down and warm up, if I let the driver control it it does seem relatively slow compared to the Atik. It probably takes 5/10 minutes to get down to -15°C anyway from ambient. Where the Atik will stop dead on -10°C and stay there, the ASI tends to overshoot by up to 1°C and then slowly raises back up to the target temp. Again, hardly any thermal noise with this camera so no big deal if we are +/- 1°C here or there.

Driver control. When initially struggling with connection, I was surprised to find out there is no option (in NINA at least) to select an ASCOM driver. The only option is to use the native driver and use the gain, offset and USB settings from within NINA.

Apart from the above mentioned niggles, testing over 2 nights went well. No disconnections or image download issues. Focus runs went well and flats are so much quicker to take than with the Atik. I collected another hour Ha and 40 mins each on SO on IC1396 last night so will try and get a cleaner result with the extra subs. Its looking very pleasing so far with this camera. Before I parked up last night I took a single 300s sub on M16 at 3am.

On 09/06/2022 at 13:26, BrendanC said:

Honestly Vlaiv, I can't face it. This has been playing on my mind for four months now. Right from the very start, I could tell something wasn't right, and I've tried so many things now that I'm just going to admit defeat. The ASI533 has great reviews, including from Cuiv the Lazy Geek who is in a heavily light-polluted city, plus I could consider an L-Pro dualband filter for narrowband stuff.

Thanks again.

Though I understand your frustrations (I had a newt when starting and had the same issues with flats) I have to disagree with your reason of thinking as the camera is not at fault here. I think you may still have issues if you simply swap cameras as you are not addressing the issue with your flats first.

I watch most of the main astro channels but my favourite tend to be Chucks Astrophotography and Astronomy Shed. Unfortunately Dion on AS no longer participates in the hobby but his videos are very good. They are informative but not glossy or over produced. That's appealing to me as the amateur/enthusiast as they feel more honest. Chuck has had many APODs though he does seem to have different rig for every target!

Hi Mick,

Ive had a root around the old hard drive and found the cr2 files for the above images. M51 was shot with no flattener or reducer as was waiting for one from FLO at the time. Both M106 and M13 were shot with a Stellamira 1.0 flattener. The same as the generic OVL one. Stars aren't perfect and I couldn't be bothered trying to improve things at the time. They were shot during lockdown no. 1 and I was just happy to be enjoying all the clear nights we had. The vignetting clearly improved though compared to the M51 subs. Hope this helps.

0055_60.00_1600_00-14-15_.cr2 0118_120.00_1600_03-07-02_.cr2 0173_120.00_1600_22-47-25-.cr2

On something that's likely to be in the 4 figures bracket it's worth having that go to home support by buying domestically. I don't doubt ZWO would fix something under warranty but would need to send it back to China if anything goes wrong and you need to run the customs gauntlet each time. They didn't exactly cover themselves in glory either with the 'oil leak' issue by suggesting customers clean the sensors themselves. Both FLO and 365 can repair things to a certain extent if you buy from them.

I found this helpful diagram as explained to me by a previous forum member (Oddsocks). This is why I recommend moving the light source for the flats away from the OTA as much as possible.

Hi Mick. I used mine with an Altair 102EDR a couple of years ago. There may be some vignetting but it's not terrible. I can try and dig some subs out for you if you like. Pretty sure these were shot at native f7.

To answer a few of the questions you asked me earlier.

DSLR: I went through a stage of having way too much gear as well as saving for a house purchase so had a quiet word with myself and decided to sell a lot of it but I wanted to keep one foot in the hobby and kept the Canon 6D. It's proven to be such a good camera I eventually decided to keep it as I've built my kit back up.

I have an Atik 460 which I bought second hand back in 2020 and just last week bought the new ASI533MM. This is setup on my main scope, an Esprit 100 but the 6D is currently setup on my Redcat 51 just waiting for those larger targets to get a bit higher in the sky.

My point about the flats being difficult to take on a newt. Putting a lightbox directly onto the OTA is 100% going to introduce extra light into the focuser. The only light that should reach the camera should be reflected from primary to secondary to sensor. You really should try and take your flats by pointing at an even light source at a distance away from the OTA. At very least set the light box at the end of the dew shield. This will help keep extra light out of the focuser.

If you really want to keep using the 130PDS then you need to acknowledge its shortcomings. Its an entry level scope, not a precision instrument. You should try and modify it to improve your results. Cut the tube down like you've said, flock the tube including the focuser. Put an aperture ring around the primary to tighten up your stars. I recently bought a 200P myself and I will be doing all those things to try and improve it! 

On 03/06/2022 at 08:45, Dan_Paris said:

When I imaged with an ASI1600 I also had to take long  exposure flats (2 sec.)  and calibrate them with dark flats, as this particular sensor has some issue with very short exposures (I don't remember which). Dialing the panel brightness to match the exposure time of the master dark flat was really a pain.

Now I image with an ASI183, and I  take short exposure flats (typically 0.1sec luminance and 0.3 sec chrominance). For calibration, instead of a master bias I use a synthetic bias, and it works very well. Essentially just a value  that you need to measure once for all.  Some details here :

https://siril.org/2021/12/enough-with-dark-flats/

https://siril.org/tutorials/synthetic-biases/

I also used this procedure  successfully with an ASI533MC.

Dan

The issue with both 183 and 1600 is they produce a lot of amp glow. The darks serve to remove that. With the newer IMX sensors there's no amp glow so it's questionable if darks are needed at all. After shooting a darks library anyway I can confirm the bias signal is around 2000ADU at 100 gain and 50 offset so this needs to be removed. I used a master bias for the short flats I took the other night and master dark for the lights. No issues with calibration.

12 x 300s each SHO gain 100 offset 50

10 hours ago, BrendanC said:

Thanks all. I guess what's really bothering me is the weird gradients I'm getting with everything I shoot, plus bloated stars, not just this instance.  Integration time doesn't seem to make much difference. 

I really appreciate @david_taurus83 taking the time to do this, but still I can see mottling in the background and artefacts in the stars. On this basis I would still want to sell the camera. 

As I said, I'm away today and tomorrow but will give serious thought and feedback to all of your helpful suggestions, plus provide @vlaiv with what he needs. I'm still minded to move back to an OCR but let's see how things go here first. 

Thanks all again. 

The mottling is due to low signal (short integration) and me pushing up the saturation to bring some colour into the galaxy. A OSC camera won't fix this. You just need to collect more data. The stars look to me like the scope isn't collimated. There's nothing wrong with the camera. The diffraction pattern only really shows on very bright stars like Vega or Alnitak. I had a 1600MM. I sold it to go back to a DSLR. I now have a mono camera again and still have the 6D! I really think if you were to change anything it should be the scope for a refractor. Newts aren't an easy scope to master. You need to take special care to not allow any extra light from reaching the focuser tube. Not easy when it's so close to the front of the scope. This is why your probably struggling with flats. The only light that should be reaching the sensor should be what's reflected from the mirrors. A dew shield would help with keeping out stray light.

2 hours ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Looks like the work paid off with how small your total guide error is now, what was it before the mount surgery? Mine is at around 0.7" now and am hoping to get under 0.5" after i get around to doing a similar process.

Here was my last calibration before I decided to strip it. Guiding was hit and miss, sometimes ok, even great but next evening could be rubbish without changing anything. I'm hoping for repeated reliability now.

I wouldn't beat yourself up too bad. Its nothing you've done wrong and there's nothing wrong with the kit. I download all your files (eventually!), chucked it all into Pixinsights WBPP script and let it do everything including stacking. Then I done background extraction on each channel, combined RGB, colour balanced, stretched, added Lum and some levels and curves. This looks like a difficult target tbf, very faint and you've only got 1.5 hours in Lum and 40 mins each of RGB. I would keep adding data if its still possible. IMO this hobby is 25% image acquisition and 75% processing.

After seeing @barkingsteve's first light initial results with this new camera, I decided to order one as have been mulling over it for a while since they were on pre-order but was waiting for somebody else to post up some images first. Thanks Steve!

Also a tip of the hat to 365 Astronomy for the speedy next day delivery.

Last night was clearish. With 3 hours of semi-darkness I decided to see if I could gather enough data for a complete image. I think the results speak for themselves. Very pleased even with so little data. Looks like this is going to be a popular camera.

12 x 300s each in Ha, OIII and SII, gain 100 and offset 50. Flats calibrated with a master bias and lights with a matching 300s master dark. Chucked everything into Pixinsights WBPP script and let it do everything including integration. Quick and dirty processing then to get some colour images.

SHO

HOO

Ha stack with just a stretch.

OIII

SII

Proof is in the pudding, as they say. Moment of truth last night whether the bearing upgrade and work was worth it( @ONIKKINEN). I bought one of those Prologik balance meters to help get near perfect balance and tune out any remaining backlash in the worms (thanks @Glennbloke for the very helpful Youtube video). I initially thought the price of the meter was a bit expensive for what is basically an ammeter but I am happy to admit I was wrong. Very well built and very accurate! Made balancing and tuning backlash very easy, though time consuming as you need to make very minute adjustments.

Spot the new camera

First clear night here for a while last night as well.

Initial PHD calibration, near perfect first time.

Guiding results throughout the night. I'm very pleased! Who says mount tuning cant be done by us 'forum experts'? Don't send it off to be 'Hypertuned' for £££

Do it yourself for less and get better results!

Thanks. So same as the 1600. I might crank up the flat panel brightness and do short flats and use a master bias. Can't be dealing with different flat exposures and shooting flat darks for each filter again!

As titled really. I'm guessing I don't need to do darks at all. Do I still need to do a master bias or flat dark? Was a necessity with my 1600MM a few years ago. Would I get away with flats and lights? If I can't use a bias how do I calibrate the lights? What do 2600 users do?

Very similar in size to the Atik 460.

Of course, a few teething issues to sort out.

18 hours ago, barkingsteve said:

I did manage to capture a few frames of SII and OII the other morning while testing,  It  was getting light when captured, but thought I would post here for anyone who is interested. These are single 5 minute frames with the Antlia 4.5nm and a single auto stretch in Siril, noting else. Stars may look a little off towards the edges as I need to correct spacing on the reducer  

Ha

 

SII

 

OIII

For single subs, the low signal areas look very clean. Mine come today, can't wait to try it!

Will be the same as the Altair versions here in the UK. I guess TS are aiming at the EU Market with these.

Oh my, oh my! 7 x 5 mins! I'm sold. Ordering one now! 

5 minutes ago, ONIKKINEN said:

Exactly what i was looking for, thanks a bunch! Didn't spot your thread by searching for some reason.

I will see if i can easily remove them, if not then ill leave them be as they are just supporting bearings. I used to do mechanic stuff for cars and most bearings like this (in engines mostly) do not come out cleanly unless they are well worn. But sometimes slightly heating the casing with a hot air gun and hitting the bearing from the inside with a piece of wood of the right size and they fly off. With a piece of wood you dont actually damage the bearing after a few hits so the option to leave it be is still there even though its less likely to work than something less agricultural.

Have a look through the mount. The outer race is obscured by the mount casting so you'd probably just smash through the nylon cage! On 3 of mine, there maybe just, and I mean just enough of the outer race available on the inside to 'grab' with the flange on a blind bearing puller (those hammer type ones). If I was really determined I'd probably just pry the nylon cage out and the pins with a screwdriver and remove the outer race on its own. You destroy the bearings this way but you are replacing them anyway. Of course, you probably have fsr more experience than me at this sort of thing anyway!