souls33k3r

Couple of things i will check later (need to head out right now). Firstly in PHD2, i need to check the camera setup take (under connect icon) to verify that even though the same of the drivers were different, PHD2 was indeed using 174 and not 1600 camera. Also i've just read that ASI1600 and some guidecams do not like sharing the same USB hub/cable so will try that as well. #Frustrating

Hi All,

I just wanted to ask if someone uses 2 different models of ZWO ASI camera and have not had issues? and how have they fixed it if they had any.

So last night was a rare clear night after nearly 2 weeks of rain so thought i should give the OAG a go but that turned out to be a mistake. Initially i wanted to see if i can get both my main imaging camera (1600) and guide camera (174) in focus so fired up SharpCap and checked my imaging camera and that was in focus. Switched to guidecam (by selecting the option in SharpCap > Camera) and i couldn't see anything out of it. I could see a smudge but didn't make much of it at this time. Fired up PHD2 and without having to change or move anything in the setup (already had a profile made in PHD2), i could see a lot of stars.

In SGP i'm using ZWO camera  and in PHD2 i'm using ASI Camera (1) (ASCOM) . When i connected the guidecam, straight away the SNR of my stars was silly high (the best i saw was 700) and in PHD2 (brain icon > Camera Tab and also in Guiding > Calibration tab). I was well pleased with that. While i was still in the brain icons, i wanted to check and change if neccessary the focal length of the guidescope to the main imaging scope but noticed that the Pixel Size value was showing 3.8. I changed to 5.8 (174 pixel value) but some times that value remained there but most of the time that value kept on changing back to 3.8. I have been using QHY5LL-ii-Mono camera as a guidecam in the past but that's a 3.75 pixel and i know 3.8 is the pixel size of my ASI 1600 camera so why is it that value kept on getting populated back? So i think even though i was using two different names of the drivers, PHD2 kept on using my ASI1600 as my guidecam and that seems to have been causing a conflict with each other. I say conflict because throughout the entire night i kept having issues in SGP where my sub were coming out completely black and PHD2 kepts on showing grey screen. One or the other kept on happening and most of the time both black image in SGP and grey screen in PHD2. A restart of the laptop works fine for 2 minutes but then it kept on going back to the same issue again.

Please help, it's quite frustrating to have lost and wasted clear night on software issues.

Thanks in advance.

Can't see anything wrong but be vary of it being a lemon just like any other kit that we buy. 

Happy to test it for you

31 minutes ago, x6gas said:

You're very kind mate.  Ain't true, but you're very kind.

I honestly can't believe how much I've forgotten about processing in Photoshop, but it is coming back... And then there's learning PI which at the moment is just following recipes without really knowing why or what you're doing but I am sure it'll make sense one day!

3 years and I'm still trying to make sense of things in PI I guess this is why I love PI so much. The more you play with it, the more comfortable you get mate. Plus, we're all here to help each other

You've absolutely smashed it mate. Great work. Like you never left

Absolutely awesome stuff Dave. What scope and camera did you use for this? I'm hoping to do the same at some point. 

7 minutes ago, Rainer said:

I can feel you pain as I have had it for the last 10 months with my two ( not only one) CEM 120EC2. I knew I was buying an unproved thing but OK, I have spent a lot of time and do not regret and now after 10 months I can say it is working more or less as expected, nothing will work perfectly even some say so but that is OFF TOPIC.

iOptron has been responsive but what [removed word] me off mostly was their dishonesty. I might be stupid but not yet stupid enough in order not to see what BS they sometimes were writing and that is what makes me angry.

On the other side there is no mount in this carrying class for that price including encoders (which now work) ... All similar products cost at least double and upwards ... and honestly I see no reason to buy that just for maybe a 5% improvement ? All have problems and that is proven ... OK I will finish here so souls33k3r doe snot need to say to stay on topic  🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Don't tempt me 😂 you have a valid point there Rainer but I guess that's for another thread.

53 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

 

Sorry, it all seemed highly 'on topic' to me. The 'plug and play' issue is a perfectly reasonable consumer priority and ought not to be beyond the wit of manufacturers at this stage in our imaging evolution. Maybe I've missed the point here: if so I apologize and will deftly disappear...

Olly

No you haven't missed any point Olly

I just want to be able to make a decision on the mount and quick because I'm missing out on clear nights. Seems to me CEM60 is a better option here. As much as I had a good run with NEQ6 and EQ6-R being the better (?) version, the backlash is a real thing and it's creeps up quite quickly. 

6 hours ago, Rainer said:

Sorry and deleted my OT answers 

😊

Much appreciated buddy

Can stay on topic please?

Absolutely stunning result mate. 

Seems like I really only have 2 potential choices here. The SW EQ6-R or the CEM60 (non-EC) version. I see strong arguments from both. 

Anyone who has had or still has both mount? Just looking for a comparison in performance etc. 

19 hours ago, Rainer said:

Hi,

It is not quite that simple ... There is no Plug & Play equatorial mount in the same way that there is no " Simply want to get on with imaging " ... and I eat my Hat if there is one ... I am doing this Sh.t since 20 years ...

My old NEQ6 was pretty much plug and play. Yes I did have to tweak the PHD2 settings but that was just about it. In my world I call that plug and play. I spent 5 nights (40hrs) on my new mount which did not even produce a single sub. I know its all down to the firmware. I'm not dissing the mount or it's capabilities but just at this time it's not for me because I can not wait for a proper firmware that works or me having to do tests. Unfortunately I don't have it in me. 

On 16/09/2019 at 19:38, Rainer said:

Hi Alan,

That is wrong thinking = " ... results I am beginning to think buy the encoder version and throw my guiding gear in the bin ... "

 ... Encoders do NOT correct your imperfect Polar Aligment

... Encoders on the CEM 60EC as far as I know do not correct for atmospheric refraction ... (unless they have a built in barometric and temperature measuring device as the CEM 120EC2 have)

Get an OAG and your guiding will be much better ... I only guide through OAG my two mounts ... 

 

BTW I feel guilty that sould33k3r has problems now due to my advice and so please take this comment with a big Grain of Salt  🥶

Don't feel guilty mate, you made a grand point why one should buy an iOptron encoder mount which should've been a good thing but unless iOptron fixes the issue, I think it's not for me because I just do not have the time and patience to deal with issues right now. I just simply want to get on with imaging. 

On 16/09/2019 at 20:13, ollypenrice said:

I don't. I have hosted (and still host) several 10 Microns and I also host three Mesus. My own pair of mounts are both Mesus. Draw your own conclusion. If 'returns to factory' were a penalty shoot-out staged here it would be a 4-nil victory for Mesu. (Or maybe 5-nil. One was a bit ambiguous.) Just for information, I sometimes hear rumours that I have some kind of commercial relationship with Lucas Mesu. I don't. Indeed I never have had, since both my mounts were bought second hand, the first from Yves Van den Broek and the second from Bart Delsaert. How's that for transparency.

Olly

I know Olly, you're a really good advocate for the Mesu mounts and wish I could afford one but sadly this mount is way over my budget. 

On 16/09/2019 at 20:25, AngryDonkey said:

... or you could buy that Avalon Linear that's been on ABS for a while now (not mine, I just feel a bit sorry fo it...). Second hand, slightly over budget but not by much. Excellent mount, well mine certainly is.

It sure is tempting but tbh I don't like buying things second hand. I don't know why. 

That's a mighty fine result. Mind if i ask what's wrong with your CEM60? 

1 hour ago, Wiu-Wiu said:

I recently upgraded all firmware to the latest version (last month)

On the non-guided pics (30s subs) I had to ditch one in six subs on average. 

I usually don't have to throw away guided pics, if I have to it is because of external issues (I have cats that really like to bump into my tripod, for example)

 

On my apo's I use an Orion Shorttube guidescope (80mm) and I use OAG on the SCT's. 

OK that's really helpful. Cheers mate. It's seems that the CEM60 is more of an all round performer here. Since my imaging load is never going to be over than the recommend limit by iOptron, it looks like a real winner. Which it also is lighter than the EQ6-R mount. Can't go wrong with that I suppose. 

1 hour ago, alan potts said:

I have the Meade in the back of my mind to try but I don't see that I am serious with this, people have told me don't go there, but that doesn't stop the interest. Most of my scopes 115mm APO, 190mm M/N, 180mm Mak , 77mm Borg, and 70mm ED, are all under about 13KG, maybe a bit less. I just wanted a bit of refinement in the mount. The AZ EQ 6 is decent enough but I feel things could be a bit better. I am not looking for 10Micron quality at 12,000e , well not this week. I feel this is the type of mount that is required to get the best from 3M of F/L though

Well let's admit it, we all want a 10Micron but sanity slaps us and tell us we'd be better off saving a boat load of money I have been up and down this ladder quite a lot so don't even want to think about it

13 hours ago, alan potts said:

I mis-read that, well I have to say I am leaning very much that way towards the CEM. I still have myself to convince as I have just been out in the observatory and on the AZ EQ 6 got really rather nice guiding. My mates been down today, he is an IT guru and he has my new screen running superb with a now connection of internet to the house, he is going to fix it up next week so I can control everything from inside if I wish.

Only time tonight in90 minutes that guide was poor was M9 and this was only 20 degrees above horizon and setting, never get good guiding on this side, must be down to balance.

As stated above, this adjustment is fairly easy but take time over it, I did mine and it is much better.

Alan

Seems like you're getting really good results out of our AZ EQ6 mount. Why would you want to move away to a new territory? is it because you're larger FL scope isn't up to the mark?

Mind you, I did look at the AZ EQ6 mount myself but the extra AZ capability of the mount didn't Impress me much. 

So seems like I don't really have much choice left then. Will have to decide. 

@Wiu-Wiu, quick question mate, you using guidescopes with all of your setups or using OAG as well? 

1 minute ago, fwm891 said:

The tri-pier is really solid and doesn't mind uneven solid ground. Each leg is adjustable via changing it's angle (no extensions).

Yeah that's what I would've thought too but there's so much around this on different forums how the tri-pier doesn't like uneven grounds. Glad you've debunked that theory mate

Really impressive John. Hard work has most certainly paid off

2 hours ago, alan potts said:

I misread this, best go take the guide scope out the bin then. I am beginning to think the CEM 60 is the way to go with the nice tripod they do.

Alan

I haven't heard good things about their tripod for CEM60. People say its wobbly and I'm not sure how wobbly it is. The tri-pier is great but it doesn't like uneven grounds. Again I have none of these so can't tell you first hand experience. 

2 hours ago, alan potts said:

I am sure it does in your hands Francis, but I haven't got mine on it yet, I'm sure something will go wrong. I have just said on another thread seeing results from the Encoder version of the mount, maybe I should bin my guiding gear and just go with that, very good results with long F/L's too.

Alan

iOptron Commander is most definitely easier than EQMOD to understand. Everything you need to know and do is just right there. 

Alan, the result you saw on the other thread were from the non-encoder mount. Sorry to burst the bubble mate

3 hours ago, alan potts said:

Seeing Wiu Wiu's results I am beginning to think buy the encoder version and throw my guiding gear in the bin, amazing results on long F/L's which are never going to be easy meat and test more experienced people than me.

Does any one know if you will get similar results with guiding on a basic mount?

Alan

Wiu Wiu has the non-encoder mount

1 hour ago, discardedastro said:

FWIW, I've spent about two afternoons doing backlash adjustment now and found the process quite straightforward - it's a simple matter of wobbling things as you drive them to find the spot with the most play, undoing four big bolts ever so slightly on the worm bodies and then adjusting two grub screws, re-tightening the four bolts and driving it 360 degrees to ensure there's no binding. I've attached the instructions for it. At 0.5x guiding rate PHD2 only uses a 400ms backlash compensation pulse.

I'm curious when you say the guiding software is fighting with the firmware. Could you expand a little more on the behaviour you're seeing and how you have things set up?

SW_EQ6-R_backlash_adjustment.pdf 882.01 kB · 1 download

Ah sweet, ill take a look at the document and see how easy it is. Cheers mate

19 minutes ago, Wiu-Wiu said:

With the scopes you have, that CEM 60 EC of yours should produce perfect images... 

Do you have a topic about your issues? There might be something else interfering. 

 

I am putting my Esprit 120 and C11 Edge on it, and I'm quite happy with the first results. Unguided results with my old Meade 10" were also quite stunning. I have 0.3" RMS

C11 200x30s unguided

10" ACF guided 8x5 min

10" ACF 7x5 min

I even put a 10" newton on it:

 

I am still getting to know my setup - tweaking distances, guidescopes, etc etc, but I still have 2 weekends and a whole week of astro fun in dark locations planned for the remainder of this year, so hopefully I can produce some more images by december. 

(it's been mostly cloudy since I got my Esprit, and now my garden is a mess because of construction work, so it has been quiet...) 

 

 

 

"Should" is a good word but unfortunately the firmware that the mount came with is fighting with the guiding software. I can not say how long will it take iOptron to fix this issue but I cannot be wasting night after night to even get one decent sub out of it. 

How long have you had your mount for? Did you during your guided imaging had to throw away any subs due to stars not being perfectly round which has been due to the mount not playing ball? Also what firmware is your mount on if you don't mind me asking? 

Thank you. 

I personally like the gold in the reprocess and blue in the original image. But then again I'm weird. 

You guys are not wrong with the choices that I do have here within this price range. Yes Mesu would've been a lovely mount to stretch for but looking realistically it would've been way out of budget (twice over my initial budget). 

I have had experience with NEQ6 and those Alt Az bolts are horrendous. Backlash will creep up sooner rather than later and that's something one wants to avoid. 

EQ6-R is a definite step up, carrying handle is a blessing because this mount weighs a lot and picking my old NEQ6 with a bear hug was an exercise for sure. Also I believe EQ6-R has belts which is an after market add-on for NEQ6 mounts so should reduce backlash. But the question is, how easy is it to tune the mount to minimise the backlash? I don't know that. 

The CEM60 is a beautiful mount, silky smooth. I already have the EC version which I'm trying to replace. The issue I know is to do with the firmware the EC has because unguided images are fine'ish but I didn't buy that mount for unguided imaging, it was to guide and let encoders help with the guiding but so far the firmware is the only let down factor hence the question to all. Other than that, CEM60-EC is a very well built mount. I know people who have the CEM60 mounts such as (sorry for tagging) @fwm891 has one, @Wiu-Wiuhas one too and so does @ChrisWhite who I would like to hear what they have to say about their mounts. 

I'm looking for some brutally honest reviews of their mounts and if there is anything I need to be careful of in terms of guiding and not being able to produce round stars due to guiding. I don't know why but I'm not a Celestron mount fan. I've only seen AVX in flesh which I'm never going to buy because the body is plastic in most parts. Other than that I have not seen one being used. 

Thanks