souls33k3r

6 minutes ago, Hallingskies said:

I was going to say NEQ6 but I see you’ve been there, done that.  I have had one for 10 years, have done nothing to it and (depending on the seeing) got anywhere between 0.6 and 1 rms.  Star shapes with my 600mm focal length and ATIK 460 were just fine.  Umm’d and aaah’d about belt modding but picked up a second hand Avalon Linear instead.  Lovely and quiet but better guiding?  Not sure yet.  If the Avalon works out long term I’ll be letting the NEQ6 go cheap, for anyone who fancies giving it an overdue 10 year service.

I also have a 25 year old Vixen GPDX.  I fitted the Skywatcher upgrade to it and got 0.6 rms out of it the one time I tried it (I usually use it as a semi-grab and go for planets).  I did think about putting it in my obbo, but hey, the Avalon is shiny and red and purrs like a Ferrari...

You often see the GPDX’s coming up for grabs second hand.  It’s easy to adjust most of the backlash out of them and then they guide well.

Yeah been there, done that, got the T-shirt with the NEQ6 mount. It did help me guide better but the itch for better guiding, having tight round stars and eventually leading to sharper images led me to sell that mount and go for the CEM60-EC. I would've spent on Avalon mount but FLO didn't stock them and even if they did, it was slightly above the price of the new mount I was hoping to pay and limit myself (Trust me, it wasn't easy limiting myself to a sensible spend). But I've heard good things about the Linear mounts. 

Vixen mounts are something I personally have not seen much in the AP business and I wonder why. Might do a few searches on astrobin. 

6 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

There is a used EQ8 for sale on here for under £1900.  Got to be worth considering?

Cheers mate, that unfortunately is just too much money to spend on a second hand mount. I'd be happy to pay for a second hand if FLO offered them on their offers page as a second hand. At least this way I will have peace of mind about a reputable supplier such as FLO. 

Following this thread with interest because I'm in the same boat as yourself buddy but on a lighter payload. 

Hi All, 

I'm potentially looking at an alternative mount for astrophotography within £2500 range which should last me a good 5 - 10 years without much maintenance and hassle. I already have a CEM60-EC but that has caused me a lot of issues with guiding and even though my Total RMS has always been between 0.6" - 0.9" but has failed to produce round stars. Because I trust FLO, it will have to be from FLO themselves. 

What is your experience with either the CEM60 or EQ6-R mounts or any others that come within this price range? Any issues? How long you've had the mount for? Please be brutally honest about your mount because I wouldn't want any hidden issues that I might later find. I've had my NEQ6 Pro which served me well for a good 3 years before I stupidly decided to sell it. 

My two scopes that I will be using are Esprit 100 (550mm FL) guided using 60mm guidescope and Celestron EdgeHD 8" (1422mm FL with reducer and 2032mm FL without reducer) again with guidescope or an OAG at some point. I don't plan on using any more than 5 - 10min exposures.

Thank you in advance.

Good stuff mate. All the best with the build and I hope the rain doesn't stop you from carrying out this task

4 hours ago, Anne S said:

I just had a thought. Something tells me you can only switch on R.A. guiding with the handset. I can't remember if mine wa on or off when it arrived but it should be on "allow R.A. guiding".

 

I'll double check what it says on the handset tomorrow. Worth a look. 

1 hour ago, whipdry said:

Looks similar to the one for my Losmandy G11 that has grub screws in the other 3 holes that you leave a little slack while just using the 4th knurled one to tighten after rotating to the desired position. 

 

Peter 

Ah ok makes sense. Cheers mate. 

21 minutes ago, Jkulin said:

Hi Ahmed, I never found a need for more than one screw to hold my polemaster in the iOptron adapter. If you are worried then screw a couple more bolts into the adapter to lock it up, I'm fairly certain that isn't the issue.

There was an issue with the CEM120 where it would jump and that turned out to be the firmware, I would suggest you download the latest firmware and install that and see if that fixes it, if it doesn't then I would request support from your supplier.

As many have said triy a manual rotation and if it doesn't jump then it is the firmware, if it does jump then it is the mount.

Cheers John. Well I ended up using a M4 screw and that fixed the rotation of the polemaster for sure. 

I think I might have fixed the jumping of the star issue but I will hold that secret close to my heart for now because if it doesn't work, then I will have to eat one of my hats. 

I just need a few hours of clear skies to try and test a few more things and will report back to my supplier who have been nothing short of brilliant so far helping me resolve my issues. 

I'll do it for free AND make coffee 😇

Here's a short video of the polemaster adapter which is not secure enough to hold the polemaster in position and starts rotating with a slight force. I've never had such issue with the QHYCCD (red colour) adapter

40 minutes ago, RolandKol said:

Ouch, just noticed your thread! I hope you will sort it out before October!
as per tests indoors....
Sadly, I do not remember which software can track how your motors perform and show the graph and other data output... Maybe PemPro or PECPrep (they are used to measure PEC) or something similar.... 
But I afraid, all of them will need active guiding and they are more about PEC.

What about the "old school" manual tests?

Simply release the clutches and turn it slowly, maybe you will feel something in RA, or, turn it in different speeds using the handset and keep your arm on the mount, - also listen... if you will feel some slight bumps or sounds... prepare the mount for the ride back....
 

 

Cheers for the kind words mate. I do hope I get this sorted out before October as well mate. 

I think that sounds like a good plan, I'll bring out the mount shortly and listen and feel. 

I really am not sure what else can I do. 

@FLO might be able to advise something? 

35 minutes ago, old_eyes said:

Following this with interest as I have a new CEM60EC awaiting installation in my new observatory (probably at least another month until I can test). I hope you resolve your problems soon, and it turns out to be one of those irritatingly simple things.

In your position I would certainly be running tests with the handset. When I have any equipment problems I always go back to the ‘as delivered’ ‘as described in the manual’ configuration and protocol. It may help.

the only suggestion I can make which has not yet been chewed over, is to look at whether the GPS unit is providing the correct location. On my CG5-GT, I once gave it the wrong Lat and Long and it responded with really weird behaviour, including guiding problems and trailing. That I never understood. I could see why it would make Go-To fail, but guiding?

However, once given the correct location it was much happier.

A very tentative suggestion, as I don’t understand the mechanism by which it could produce your error, but elimination of possibilities is the name of the game.

Hi mate, thank you for your input. I'm not sure what the handset is able to provide that the direct connection from the mount to my laptop using FTDI cable and iOptron Commander wouldn't? 

Yes I can confirm that the GPS coordinates were showing correct. I found the coordinates from the iOptron Commander and also verified that on my phone. 

Since the forecast for the next few days looks very cloudy, are there any tests that I can perform indoors? 

3 hours ago, fwm891 said:

The iEQ 45 Pro was firmware updatable as are the CEM's. Be aware I queried the firmware shown on the handset with the firmware shown on the iOptron website - iOptron will install the latest firmware to the mount at the factory but they just don't update the website. The website shows an older firmware version. Firmware numbers are in a date format so you can see which is the later version.

If you use the handset you will find various ways to set your PA - it's a great mount.

I'm sure it's a great mount, im just not so confident with what I've got is. I won't be the first. The whole reason why I paid for the lynx Astro FTDI cable was to get rid of the handset. It's one less cable to connect and take care of. 

21 minutes ago, almcl said:

Coming a little late to this, but the elongated stars may not be related to the PA issue.

How are you guiding, because I have seen and had a similar issue (elongated stars when PHD2 reported OK guiding).  This turned out to be differential flex between guide scope and imaging scope.  The problem went away when I switched to an OAG.  

This may not be relevant - not sure what scope/guider arrangements you have?

Am guiding the same way as I have always been. Guide scope attached at the top of the main scope. The formation has not changed from when I was getting round stars to this. I will be using OAG but only on my SCT but that comes at a much later stage. 

13 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

I think you should defo get the handset plugged in and start from basics.

Dave

Am happy to listen to whatever advice tbh because I am out of ideas and patience now

5 minutes ago, Anne S said:

There's a setting in the handset which will show you the firmware. Menu button then setup I think. It'll say where to look in the full instructions too.

Yeah I'm sure it does tell you that on the handset but let me see if I can find it from the pc software because I need to get in the loft, take out the box and take off the seal from the handset

3 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Another problem I had with the iEQ45 was a failure updating the firmware apparently once the ROM was deleted a failure necessitated a complete new motherboard, hope they've sorted that in the intervening years 

Dave

Ouch! How long ago was this? I've heard that their QC has improved but I'm only telling you what I've heard 

1 minute ago, alan potts said:

I am sure FLO will sort it though some issues I have caused with my gear have foxed them .

Good luck Alan

Cheers Alan. I have no doubt in my mind that they will. I will just have to wait for them to come online tomorrow because I wouldn't want to bother the good folks at FLO over the weekend

9 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Many years ago when I bought the iOptron iEQ45 it had problems from new and had to go back for repairs twice, the first time it was returned with the same fault, then later I rebuilt it with new bearings, HP worm and a few other mod's until it eventually performed as advertised.
Hopefully they've improved their QC but as you say new buggy software can play havoc with your imaging, I now use it solely for solar imaging and night time visual.

At least you have the assurance of FLO at your back 

Dave

Like Anne mentioned, there's a thread which I started on CN a while ago whether I should buy the CEM60 or the EC version which has morphed in to issues with the firmware. I stayed well away from doing any of the upgrades but clearly so many clever cogs are on it and have issues. I understand not nearly half of what those guys talk about but can clearly see that there is an issue with firmware. I don't even know what firmware I'm on but at least I know I haven't changed it. 

You've said it all Dave, at least I have the assurance of FLO brilliant customer service which is why I'm hopeful that my issue will be resolved. 

4 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Don't get too stressed out over it Ahmed, to quote Bill Shakespeare, the course of true love nor astro' imaging never did run smooth, you're young and can look forwards to many more frustrating nights so best to chill out if you can.

Dave

Cheers for the kind words mate. The thing is that having a night to deal with issues which is clearly not something you've created are more frustrating than others. I do agree, there will be plenty more frustrations to come but as long as I know it's not my new gear I'd happily deal with them. Also most issues last for a session rather than soending days trying to sort. We hardly get clear skies and on those nights you want things to work. I've literally exhausted all my efforts trying to get this mount to work and unless I know I have a mount that will work, I'm not sure how I'll relax

7 minutes ago, alan potts said:

I just get the feeling there is something wrong with the RA shaft, that image from Polemaster looked very strange to me, as you said, it isn't like it's the first time you have set this up.

Alan

Exactly my thiught mate. I'm glad I made a video to show what's going on. And possibly could be the cause of a lot of the issues that I'm having. I will get @FLO to take a look at this thread as well and see what they think. 

14 minutes ago, alan potts said:

From the poit of view of PA, a while back mine was said to be 14.6 minutes out and it guided out fairly well, that was PHD2 's Polar Drift and Guide Assistant.

Alan

When I used to do PA on my NEQ6 Pro mount, I was told that I was somewhere between 10 - 15 arc minutes out but my stars always used to come out fine. I did do guiding assistant at least 3 times in different part of the sky and at different times of the night but it didn't really solve my issue. 

7 minutes ago, knobby said:

Gutted for you Ahmed, I know nowt about Ioptron but unless your polemaster is moving on the mount it shouldn't jump like that ! 

Cheers Gary. I noticed polemaster moving within the adapter last time when I was out so knew for well that it does that so this time like I said above, I tightened it with force so that the only thumb screw that hold it down doesn't start to slip. Also I'm not sure if this adapter should come with three thumb screws or just one because if it was 3 screws (because it's got 3 holes so thinking that it's for adjusting the placement of the single thumb screw for easy access) that would make sense and would better hold the polemaster in place. 

I really am out of ideas now mate

27 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

I'd be inclined to forget PoleMaster etc to eliminate as much stuff as possible from the equation then do as I said and use your main imaging camera to PA with a PA app of some sort make sure you know which way is up and have camera aligned square to the sky, even better if you can use a diagonal and an eyepiece of 26mm or so.

Putting Polaris at position shown by a PA app in the main scope should be plenty good enough for PHD then if you still get dodgy stars it's down to something other than polar alignment.

Dave

Do you mean PoleMaster software or the camera altogether? I did use the polemaster camera with sharpcap which like I said showed me my PA was excellent. 

I think I can try doing Sharpcap using my guidescope (or main imaging scope if one can do that. Not sure but will have a chat with Alex as he's very much clued up with Sharpcap stuff). The way you're saying this, I'm sure I can align my main imaging camera squared to the sky. 

But truth be told I feel like there is a mechanical issue with the mount in RA otherwise there is no reason for the star selected to jump out of the line and then swing right back only to jump right off and then come right back. 

This issue might also relate to why my guiding is just pants unfortunately and why my image drifts. There's a massive thread on CN about the firmware issue which iOptron so far has been unable to fix but I don't think I have the patience any more given the amount of hours I've spent to take the mount out and set it up again to test. I bought this mount to image with less hassle but only to have more issues than just one of those nights very disheartened mate. 

1 hour ago, Davey-T said:

Is Polaris in the main scope FOV ( parked up north ) when it says it's that far out ? don't know what FOV your camera scope combo gives but would have thought if it was as for out as reported you'd be lucky if it was actually visible in the main scope.

Dave

I didn't check through the scope but it sure was bang in the middle of PoleMaster camera. 

17 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Commiserations me old mate, never used PoleMaster so can't help with that but would say that PA needs to be a fair way off to stop PHD guiding it out so may not be a PA issue.

Just PAing using the main scope parked up north and adjusting bolts to put Polaris in position as shown by any app, allowing for scope type, and using the camera onscreen image should get it near enough for PHD to produce round stars leaving a bit of field rotation between images.

It's worth getting your head round drift aligning, preferably using a graduated eyepiece to eliminate any computery stuff 

Dave

Cheers mate. Like I said, I literally am on the verge of falling out with this mount. I regret selling my NEQ6 now but at least it performed far far better than this mount. PA as suggested by PHD was 30-50 arc min off using pole master and slightly less when doing PA routine using sharpcap. I used to see drift with longer focal length but never saw it with the Esprit 100's 550mm FL which I'm seeing now. 

Drift alignment I'll start working on it once I've got the rest of these issues sorted out.

1 hour ago, cotak said:

What is your OTA? It is balanced in all orientations of DEC? The belt and magnetically loaded worms results in a stretchy behavior if your OTA is horizontal balanced but has a vertical imbalance. It could cause similar behavior as what you see although usually it eventually catches up with a large overshoot.

Yes mate, my OTA is balanced in all 3 axis. I've been in the habit of balancing my scope like this for about 2 years. I checked and re-checked it twice. 

6 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Sorry I can't be more help because I am not familiar with either PoleMaster or SharpCap.  

I just wonder whether it's worth trying a completely different type of polar alignment method (preferably an optical one) and then looking at your 5 minute subs. (Are they 5 mins?) 

Two obvious alternatives for PA come to my mind. Is there an inbuilt polar alignment routine using the handset and three-star alignment? The second is the EQMOD alignment routine. Both of these methods I have found will provide more-or-less round stars (on a windless night) for 5 minute guided subs.  Sufficient anyway for a telescope of 510mm focal length anyway.  Maybe your telescope has a longer focal length for which  +/- 0.5" isn't good enough. 

Good luck. 

PS I must say looking at the "jump" you see in Polemaster (and I think you said SharpCap) I'd be inclined to susoect there's something wrong with the mount's tracking. 

I used to do the age old polar alignment routine by looking through the polar scope back in the day when I was doing visual but when I jumped in to AP business, I bought polemaster and never looked back. I've never had issues using PoleMaster in the past and expect the same. I am just not familiar with other methods so will leave them aside because that is just me adding to issues for now but will look in to them at a later stage when I don't have to battle the issues that I've been having

I'm not sure where the issue lies but there IS an issue and it's not helping whatsoever.

4 hours ago, alan potts said:

I don't use Polemaster but there appears to be something wrong here. You have to take this up with FLO, they will see that what ever it is is put right in which ever way, but I am sure in the end you will be happy apart from the wait I guess. I am no expert but the guiding does not look what I would call good.

Alan

I agree Alan, there is something wrong there and cut the life of me I don't know what is. FLO have always been nothing but awesome and they really look after their customers but before I put it to them, I wanted to reach out to the community to see if there was anything else that I can do because like I said I've spent so many hours on this to validate my efforts. 

2 hours ago, Anne S said:

I've always moved the R.A. manually when using the Polemaster. It says to do it using the handset/Commander but as it's only finding where the mount is pointing, I've never found it makes any difference. One less complication. As to the stars appearing to be off the green circle, I would put that down to atmospheric distortion or the lens on the Polemaster. I don't normally zoom in that closely. We get rubbish skies in Wales mostly! When I polar aligned earlier this year, the only issue I had was when I tightened the adjusters. There was some movement showing on the screen. I spent some time running unguided exposures last night and managed 2 minutes unguided at 564mm with my SX694 pointed at M52 which was pretty high. I got increasing elongation on 3 and 4 minutes. I put that down to the movement when I polar aligned. I'll fix that when I get back from Kelling as the Polemaster is at the bottom of the motorhome garage!

i haven't noticed any issue with the Polemaster adapter but I don't leave the Polemaster in as I need it for travelling.

As to the guiding, that looks like the issue reported on cloudynights. Have you tried contacting Ioptron support to see if they've got anywhere with a fix, or if they can supply a copy of the earlier firmware from 2016/17 that my 60ec is using? We've got several Ioptron mounts and we've always found them very helpful.

I'm hoping to actually do some imaging next clear night after spending last night running v-curves mostly.

Anne

Anne, this is not the first time this star issue has happened, it happens every single time. I have used handset and moved the mount manually and still see the star jump. Last night I was getting some help from a friend on using SharpCap for Polar alignment and he too noticed that. It's like something on the RA axis that is causing it to do that. I have been using PoleMaster for nearly 2 years and I've polar aligned in rubbish skies but never saw the star jump at this stage. 

Yeah the polemaster adapter comes with one thumb screw which doesn't seem to be holding the polemaster tight enough and will easily start rotating. The adapter has three holes for the thumb screws to hold the PoleMaster tight but it only comes with one. 

No I haven't contacted iOptron yet but there is no place to find older versions of firmware. Mine still is on the same firmware as it came out of the factory. I'm not big on using beta because it potentially has issues so I will hold off until there is a proper release but not sure I can live with a mount that doesn't guide for God knows how long. 

2 hours ago, fwm891 said:

Your obviously having problems. You've got your mount now pointing to polaris with Polemaster, have you tried to drift align the mount with PHD and ignoring polemaster? With my old iEQ 45 Pro Polemaster gave mediocre results.

Are your stars the same shape across the frame, longer one side/corner than the other.  Personally I think your PA is off line which may be due to the problems in locating the Polemaster adapter and securing Polestar itself in the adapter. Your PHD graph is not that bad, certainly those errors would be guided out.

I used PHD's drift align routine to set mine up because I can't see the pole star. That took a few iterations but it has been well worth it. I found the adjusters for azimuther awkward and used an allen (hex) key to allow small adjustments when I got near. If you try PHD's drift align don't be put off by the erratic movement of the dec line when you start the 'drift' measurement it needs 30 secs or so to settle and show its basic direction. Longer is better once your homing in of final adjustments. My CEM60 Standard is a pleasure now it's PA is properly aligned.

Good luck, it's frustrating when stuff doesn't live up to expectations out of the box. 

Francis

Cheers for your input Francis. No I haven't done drift alignment because I'm not familiar with the process (I know what it is but don't know how it's performed). 

Yes my stars are the same across the screen and change from sub to sub as my image drifts. 

As for guiding out the phd errors, that's the thing, the numbers are good but the graph doesn't look good at all. Both lines are on either side of the middle lines. 

I seriously am thinking that the normal CEM60 would've been a much better choice because even iOptron are having issues producing a firmware that makes this version of the mount work. I know I paid extra just to get rid of hassles but this mount has been anything but

Plenty of great ideas here. 

Keep them coming peeps if you have any more to share. 

Hi All,

I thought it's time to seek some serious help because i am on the verge of calling quits with this mount as i've spent nearly 4 (spending nearly 30hrs) clear nights given to me on this mount.

It is a brand new mount bought from @FLO and i have only now managed to get a chance to fully test this and reporting it (because i was waiting on the pier to be set up).

As much as i love the mount for how it looks, it just isn't performing how i have been expecting it to be. I will list out issues accordingly. (Both RA and DEC are perfectly balanced in all 3 axis)

Polar Alignment

I have performed polar alignment using PoleMaster for a while now and am familiar with the process. For those who aren't, i do apologise if this doesn't make sense.

Before i explain what the issue is, i find that the adapter for Polemaster is super bad. My polemaster comes loose because all what is holding it down is one thumb screw and the Polemaster starts rotating. It does become somewhat find if i put herculian force behind the thumb screw but that's just about it.

Any way, after selecting Polaris, i set up the template and choose a star. When i choose a star and move it slightly more than 30 degrees i noticed the star jumps outwards when the mount moves. It does the exact same things when i reselect the same star and move the mount. When i select the star for the third time, Polemaster software draws a line on which the star needs to stay on and i ask the mount to move back to the home position. When moving back, the star can be seen jumping (see video below):

The polar alignment error shown in PHD2 is somewhere around 30 - 50 arc minutes. Since the above video, i also tried SharpCap and got to the point where it said "Excellent".

PHD2

After polar alignment, regardless of whether i did it with Polemaster or SharpCap, the guide graph makes me scratch my head. I tried to calibrate on the object but did not see the change in behaviour of the guide graph. I tried to calibrate at Dec 0 and still the same issue. The DEC stays above the line even though PHD is sending corrections but it would still stay above the line. All the corrections are in one direction. RA does the exact same thing but in the opposite direction. The total RMS is somewhat reasonable and i have seen as low as 0.5". I have been tinkering with the numbers but nothing seem to make any difference.

My bullseye looks like this which then equates to another issue ahead

Issue with collected Subs

Ok, i could ignore the PHD2 numbers but i can not because all of the above that i have mentioned results in elongated stars. Ok i must admit, i am pixel peeping but that's where i can see what the issue is. My small stars are showing elongation and i can clearly see from sub frame to sub frame that my image is drifting which also shows in the above bulls eye as well.

Below is a crop of the same image with 5 minutes difference.

I have spent so much time with this mount and trying to tame this and figure it out and i can not seem to get it. I'm not sure what else to do now.

Please help because i literally can not afford to be losing any more nights with this mount . It seriously is putting me off using this mount completely and that's not what i paid for.

Thanks in advance.

59 minutes ago, Adreneline said:

Hi.

Before you fall out totally with the new mount (I took delivery of my new CEM25-EC yesterday) have you tried a fully manual polar alignment?

I was very frustrated with my mount last night because the supplied LynxAstro cable would not let me link the mount and PC - now sorted with a StarTech FTDI UART from Amazon in conjunction with the iOptron supplied RS232 cable.

I've set up for a first night with my CEM25-EC tonight and, ok it took me quite a while, but I managed a fully manual polar alignment (once I'd got the pole star in view - not the the easiest polar scope to get your eyeball on the end). I found the alt and az adjusters quite tricky to use - it was very much an iterative process to get polaris exactly where it needed to be according to my iPhone App. The mount is now tracking perfectly taking 120s exposures without guiding and I hope I am getting my first SHO of the Squid.

I don't know how accurate my polar alignment is but at least I'm getting somewhere - after three years of a NEQ6.

It is very different to the NEQ6 but so far I am very impressed so I do hope you get the problem sorted. I'm sorry I have no experience at all of a PoleMaster so I cannot comment or help on whether it is the CEM60 or PM that is causing the problem for you.

Hope you get it sorted.

Good luck.

Adrian

Cheers for kind words Adrian. I literally am on the verge of falling our with this new mount. Seriously, i've wasted (including tonight) 4 clear nights trying to dial in issues but i'm still no where near. 

I will be starting a new thread and get some expert opinion on a lot of the issues that i've been having because if not, then this mount is going back because i can not afford the hassle this mount has caused me so far.