John

With all these excellent and lower cost alternatives available it makes you wonder why so many folks are prepared to spend their hard earned £'s / $'s / Euros on Tele Vue, Pentax, Zeiss, Leica, Nikon, Takahashi etc ?

I believe the 30mm ES 82 is very, very close to Nagler performance too.

The 31mm T5's are expensive Michael but I agree that they are wonderful eyepieces. I get more of a "sense of occasion" when I put my 31mm Nagler in the scope than I do any other eyepiece

Trouble is, I've no idea how big a hand grenade is, never having seen one - it could be just a couple of cm long. Can't we just stick to the traditional tin of baked beans for scale ?

I'll be interested to hear about the TV Wide Fields from the folks who have got them. The 15mm, 19mm and 24mm TV WF's were my first foray into wide field eyepieces and worked very nicely at F/10 like most eyepiece do. The don't compete with Panoptics in faster scopes though. About the same as Hyperions perhaps ? I've been just as guilty on this having had low glass sets, ultra-wide sets and currently a set just for one scope - my 6" F/12 refractor

Nice eyepiece Shane I used to have the 1.25" Wide Fields in 15mm, 19mm and 24mm but I've not tried one of the 2" ones.

We do see things a little differently I reckon "Dude" I used to have a set of the NJ "smoothside" TV Plossls (except the 55mm) and a set of the newer shaped ones, with the rubber eye cups (again less the 55mm). They were both very good ranges but I felt the newer ones had greater light transmission and slightly less light scatter. Still, lets see what Alan makes of them !

I've found TV plossls very good all round eyepieces with high transmission levels. I've read that their "tone" particularly suits some objects such as Jupiter although I've never been particularly aware of this "tone" personally. They do seem to be slightly "warmer" than some eyepieces such as Baader GO's and Pentax XW's so that must be it. Of course it raises the spectre of the really keen eyepiece collector having not only a wide set and a low glass, narrower set but also a Jupiter set, Mars set, Saturn set, Lunar set etc, etc. I see that solar sets are creeping in as well - where will it all end ?

Back in the 1980's Vixen made equipment for Celestron and a few other companies including Orion (USA), Tele Vue and, believe it or not, some Tasco scopes were made by Vixen too. I've owned a few of the Vixen "silver tops" and some were branded Celestron. They were pretty decent plossls I seem to recall but I tend to prefer eyepieces with eye cups to help position the eye and keep stray light out. Vixen also made eyepieces marked as orthos in both the flat topped and volcano topped designs but they were in fact a symmetrical design rather similar to the plossl (I took a couple apart to clean once !). I've owned a Vixen made but Celestron branded 32mm Erfle a a few years back. Vixen used to put a (v) mark on stuff that they made even if the rest of the branding was another companies name. The Vixen "silver tops" do have a sort of simple elegance to their design though. I think my favourite was the 30mm

Yes, these have very much the look and finish of UWAN's / Nirvana's Michael. Quite possibly made by the same manufacturer I reckon.

First Light Optics have sent me an example of the new Skywatcher Myriad 9mm 100 degree eyepiece to compare with the William Optics XWA 101 degree 9mm that they sent me a few weeks earlier. Apart from the engraved branding and the QC sticker on the William Optics, I can't see any differences in the appearance of these eyepieces - can you ?. The Skywatcher Myriad did come with a 1.25" dust cap as well as the 2" one, which William Optics ommitted to provide. And the additional 1 degree that the William Optics claims to offer ?. Well they both look the same to me there as well. I guess I'd have to either dismantle the eyepieces and put a caliper on the field stop to check it's diameter or do some pretty accurate drift timing when the skies are clear. When I see "101" engraved on the barrel of the William Optics I see Nigel Tufnel of the band "Spinal Tap" in my minds eye: "..... well it's 1 wider isn't it ?. When you are as wide as you can go but you want to go further, where do you go ? - you go to 101 ........" Joking apart, I've only had a few brief peeks through these but they seem to be very decent performers. You do need to push your eye very close to the rather unyielding and hard eye cup to get the full field in view but, so far, I've not seen any optical oddities in the way they deliver that immersive view. It's flat too, that 100 / 101 degree field. No re-focusing as an object drifts across it. The sharpness stays all the way across, planets and craters retain their proportions and their details even in my F/5.3 dobsonian. Thats quite impressive They weigh in at 620 grams apiece and that svelte (?) body houses 9 lens elements in 6 groups. Skywatcher are apparently planning additional focal lengths for this range of 15mm and 20mm with 100 degree apparent fields of view and 5mm and 3mm at a whopping 110 degrees. William Optics have not been drawn as yet on whether or not there will be any more XWA's. I'll do some more testing and report back in due course but for now here are a few photos of this pair of clones, some with their 2" skirts removed ( ) and some fully clothed. Take it away Nigel:

Vixen SLV Eyepieces: 20mm, 12mm and 6mm Firstly I ought to apologise for the fact that i) this report has been some time coming and ii) that it’s not as long and thorough as some of the excellent reviews that have been posted by others recently. Nevertheless I hope it’s of some interest for anybody interested in these new Vixen eyepieces. I also hope I've got the history of these eyepieces correct - please let me know if you spot any bloopers and I'll gladly amend the piece Around about 1994 Vixen introduced a range of eyepieces that were a notable departure from the more normal orthoscopic, plossl and erfle designs in that they contained as many as 7 lenses, had a consistent and comfortable 20mm of eye relief and used exotic Lanthanum glass for some of the lenses. That range was called the Vixen Lanthanum LV and they rapidly became very popular despite their relatively high price tag and the fact that they resisted pursuing the wide and ultra wide apparent fields of view that Tele Vue and Meade had embraced with such enthusiasm with the Vixen LV’s sporting a modest 45 degree apparent field of view. The original Vixen LV range went all the way from 2.5mm to 40mm in the 1.25” fitting and also included a 2” format 30mm with a 60 degree field of view and finally a 50mm eyepiece. There was also an 8mm – 24mm zoom which was sufficiently good for Tele Vue to ask Vixen to re-brand a version for them. The Vixen LV’s received, and still receive very positive reviews and seemed to be owned and used by some pretty discerning amateur astronomers. They also proved very popular with those who wear glasses when observing as the high quality but moderate field of view was easily accessible to them due to the generous eye relief. Fast forward to late 2007 and Vixen produced the first re-vamp of this successful range in the shape of the Vixen NLV range which clad a similar (though not identical) optical design in a more modern looking body which incorporated a two position, twist and click, eyepiece top section and integrated eyecup to make finding the correct eye position more consistently easier. The NLV range covered a similar range of focal lengths to the LV range although the 30mm in the 2” format was dropped and the 50mm 2” had a body shape all of it’s own. The 1.25” NLV’s from 9mm and 25mm inclusive had gained 5 degrees of apparent field of view as well. It could be said that the NLV range was a careful and thoughtful evolution from the LV range, rather than a major step change, and I feel that the new Vixen SLV range, introduced in late 2013, introduces a similar further set of subtle improvements to an already excellent product. A further change is that the SLV’s are manufactured for Vixen in China rather than in Japan. In an earlier post here: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/211409-vixen-slvs-photos/ I described the physical attributes of the three Vixen SLV eyepieces that First Light Optics have been kind enough to lend me to try out, the 20mm, 12mm and 6mm focal length units. Since I’ve been using the eyepieces I’ve noticed that the twist up eyecup of the 6mm is a little looser in feel than that of the 12mm and 20mm. I’ve had a number of sessions with these eyepieces over the past couple of months, in combination with my 12” F/5.3 dobsonian scope and my 4” and 4.7” ED refractors. Initially during this period the Moon was a factor in the sky so I was limited to planetary, lunar and binary star observations but on later occasions I was able to view some of the better known galaxies, nebulae and star clusters. I usually wait until I have had a few sessions with an item before posting any performance reports on it however I was so impressed with the view through the SLV 6mm when I had first light with it that I broke this rule and posted a short exclamation on the forum: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/209170-vixen-slvs-now-available/?p=2253493 The 6mm seems to match the performance of the Baader Genuine Orthoscopic 6mm very closely and is perhaps a touch better on Mars and Jupiter than my Ethos 6mm showing just a little less light scatter and the contrast of the surface features is just a little more clearly defined. The subtle colour tints stand out as well as I have seen in any eyepiece. One of the toughest tests I know of for a high power eyepiece is to try and see Sirius B, the faint and challenging companion to the brightest star in the sky. My 12” dobsonian will show the “B” star but only under steady viewing conditions and when an eyepiece with excellent sharpness and control of light scatter is used. The 6mm Vixen SLV proved as good as the Baader Genuine Ortho at this task which is high praise because the 6mm BGO was, up to now, the best eyepiece I’d found for this. The only issue I've come across with the 6mm is some very slight pin cushion distortion right at the edge of the field of view. The effect of this is that Mars and Jupiter just start to elongate a little in the last few seconds as they drift towards the field stop edge, before disappearing behind it. This is a minor issue I feel though and it was a few sessions before I noticed it and only then when I was deliberately looking to see how the eyepiece performed right across it’s field of view. Having seen this in the 6mm I looked carefully at the edge of field performance of the the 12mm and 20mm SLV’s but they don't show this effect. This performance was consistent in all the scopes I tried the eyepieces in and the colour tint of the Vixen SLV’s seems very neutral, reminiscent of the Pentax XW’s which are another favourite eyepiece of mine. With my scopes, the 12mm Vixen SLV is a medium power eyepiece giving between 55x in my 4” refractor and 133x with my 12” dobsonian. I found it an excellent eyepiece for viewing planetary nebulae, globular clusters and galaxies. It showed the supernova SN214J that was in the galaxy Messier 82 earlier this year very well indeed and, in the 12” scope, impressive structure and contrast variation in the galaxy too. The challenging E & F stars in the Trapezium in Messier 42, the Orion Nebula were clearly picked out even with my 4.7” refractor at 75x with the great nebula itself spreading it’s bat-like wings around the cluster. The 20mm SLV mirrored the optical quality that the 6mm and 12mm displayed including maintaining sharply defined stars across the whole field, even in my F/5.3 dobsonian. Overall I’d say that the views given by the SLV’s are of similar quality to either a Pentax XW with 20 degrees less apparent field of view or a quality orthoscopic such as the Baader GO or Astro Hutech but with 8 degrees more field and a lot more eye relief, depending on which way you want to come at it. In the 3 focal lengths that I had on loan the SLV eyepieces are nearly but not quite par focal so a small adjustment to focus is needed as you swap between them. Just a quarter turn or so of the focuser knob though, so nothing drastic. I feel the Vixen SLV’s are excellent eyepieces for the observer that does not wish for wider fields of view and who is prepared to pay a little more for a 50 degree eyepiece which delivers top quality performance and comfortable viewing in a relatively compact but well made package. They should prove comfortable for those who wear glasses when observing too. I've included below some more photos of the 3 eyepieces I've had on loan with a Baader Genuine Orthoscopic 6mm for scale. Many thanks to First Light Optics for the loan of the 3 Vixen SLV eyepieces

Depsite having the Ethos 21 I can't let the Nagler 31 go either. I don't use it a great deal but there are some things that it does better than anything else, e.g: showing the whole of the Veil Nebula when used with my ED102 Vixen refractor.

And I should have listened to Steve from FLO and Rik several years back when they were singing the praises of the XW's before the Ethos and Delos were a black and green glint in their designers eye !

I've owned a TMB Supermoncentric 5mm and at the same time the Pentax XW and Baader GO 5 mm's. Under the best conditions the Supermono showed slightly better contrast and sharpness on the planets. It's only a "slightly" though and the conditions need to be towards the upper end of good to appreciate it. For me the narrow FoV, tiny eye lens and tight eye relief of the Supermono were not worth the slight optical advantage so I let it go. Back on the topic of the Pentax XW's, I've seen the the views through them described a number of times as orthoscopic-like and have used the term myself to describe the views through my 5mm and 3.5mm XW's. I'm sure the Delos matches that too. FWIW I feel the Ethos gets pretty close to that as well which figures as the Delos was derived from the Ethos design.

I have read it Alan and I did enjoy it Thanks for going to the effort of posting this quality of report on the forum.

The focuser travel on my refractors ranges between 125mm and 200mm and, like Joves, I use eyepieces from 3mm to 31mm and they all come to focus without the need for extension tubes. So, to answer your original question - no, most refactors are not like that.

Those flat bits are the radius blocks. They are separate items from the rings.

Probably a good idea. The Orion Optics tube rings and standard dovetail are not their finest works

If you want to use the Losmandy bar which is more secure, Laurie61 shows the way it works. With the Skywatcher / Vixen bar that Orion Optics supply the radius blocks are moulded into the bar itself as I recall.

If it's the F/4.8 version then it should be OK on an HEQ5 for visual observing. You will need an Orion Optics dovetail bar which is radiussed to bolt onto their tube rings. If ordering the scope from Orion Optics you need to specify that you need a dovetail bar supplied because they don't provide them as standard. Skywatcher bars and rings won't work because OO tubes are smaller in diameter.

I've been pretty good lately although a Nagler 3-6 zoom has come and gone, a Hyperion zoom has arrived and a 2X Powermate is back in the eyepiece case again. I've got no excuse really as I still have a box of great eyepieces on loan from First Light Optics to play with as well

I agree. It's a superb guide to Mars and observing it Many thanks for compiling and posting this

I've recently come across this piece on the web written by Alan MacRobert from the well known and respected astronomy magazine Sky & Telescope. It is well worth a read if you are thinking of getting into the hobby - ideally before you leap in and buy a telescope : https://www2.wwnorton.com/college/astronomy/astro21/sandt/startright.html As someone who has been in the hobby for many years now I found that many of the hints, tips and pointers in this article are right "on the button". John As the link keeps breaking, here is the text of the article: HOW TO START RIGHT IN ASTRONOMY By Alan MacRobert Adapted from Sky & Telescope "DEAR SKY & TELESCOPE," the letter began. "I am 20 years old and new to astronomy. I have always been fascinated with the stars and universe. What would you suggest my first step be to get into the hobby, so that I might get the most enjoyment out of it?" It's a good question, one that deserves better answers than most beginners find. Many newcomers to astronomy call us in exasperation after blundering down some wrong trail that leaves them lost and frustrated. Such experiences, widely shared, create a general public impression that astronomy is a tough hobby to get into. But this impression is altogether wrong and unnecessary. Many other hobbies that have magazines, conventions, and vigorous club scenes have developed effective ways to welcome and orient beginners. Why can't we? For starters, novice astronomers would have more success if a few simple, well-chosen direction signs were posted for them at the beginning of the trail. What advice would help beginners the most? Sky & Telescope editors brainstormed this question. Pooling thoughts from more than 200 years of collective experience answering the phone and mail, we came up with a number of pointers to help newcomers past the pitfalls and onto the straightest route to success. 1. Ransack your public library. Astronomy is a learning hobby. Its joys come from intellectual discovery and knowledge of the cryptic night sky. But unless you live near an especially large and active astronomy club, you have to make these discoveries, and gain this knowledge, by yourself. In other words, you need to become self-taught. The public library is the beginner's most important astronomical tool. Maybe you found Sky & Telescope there. Comb through the astronomy shelf for beginner's guides. Look for aids to learning the stars you see in the evening sky. One of the best is the big two-page sky map that appears near the center of every month's Sky & Telescope, which the library should have. When a topic interests you, follow it up in further books. Many people's first impulse, judging from the phone calls, is to look for someone else to handle their education -- an evening course offering, a planetarium, or some other third party. These can be stimulating and helpful. But almost never do they present what you need to know right now, and you waste an enormous amount of time commuting when you should be observing. Self-education is something you do yourself, with books, using the library. 2. Learn the sky with the naked eye. Astronomy is an outdoor nature hobby. Go into the night and learn the starry names and patterns overhead. Sky & Telescope will always have its big, round all-sky map for evening star-finding. Other books and materials will fill in the lore and mythology of the constellations the map shows, and how the stars change through the night and the seasons. Even if you go no further, the ability to look up and say "There's Arcturus!" will provide pleasure, and perhaps a sense of place in the cosmos, for the rest of your life. 3. Don't rush to buy a telescope. Many hobbies require a big cash outlay up front. But astronomy, being a learning hobby, has no such entrance fee. Conversely, paying a fee will not buy your way in. Thinking otherwise is the most common beginner's mistake. Half the people who call for help ask, "How do I see anything with this %@&*# telescope?!" They assumed that making a big purchase was the essential first step. It doesn't work that way. To put a telescope to rewarding use, you first need to know the constellations as seen with the naked eye, be able to find things among them with sky charts, know something of what a telescope will and will not do, and know enough about the objects you're seeking to recognize and appreciate them. The most successful, lifelong amateur astronomers are often the ones who began with the least equipment. What they lacked in gear they had to make up for in study, sky knowledge, map use, and fine-tuning their observing eyes. These skills stood them in good stead when the gear came later. Is there a shortcut? In recent years computerized, robotic scopes have come on the market that point at astronomical objects automatically. They represent an enormous change. No longer do you need to know the sky. Once fully set up, a computerized scope is a lot faster than the old way of learning the sky and using a map -- assuming you know what's worth telling the computer to point at. But they're expensive, and opinions about them are divided. For beginners, at least, there's some consensus that a computerized scope can be a crutch that prevents you from learning to get around by yourself and will leave you helpless if anything goes wrong. Moreover, you miss out on the pleasures of making your own journeys through the heavens. At star parties beneath gorgeous black, star-sprinkled skies, we have seen beginners struggling for hours with electronics when they should have been sweeping the heavens overhead. Is this just the carping of old fogeys? The jury is still out. 4. Start with binoculars. A pair of binoculars is the ideal "first telescope," for several reasons. Binoculars show you a wide field, making it easy to find your way around; a higher-power telescope magnifies only a tiny, hard-to-locate spot of sky. Binoculars give you a view that's right-side up and straight in front of you, making it easy to see where you're pointing. An astronomical telescope's view is upside down, sometimes mirror-imaged, and usually presented at right angles to the line of sight. Binoculars are also fairly inexpensive, widely available, and a breeze to carry and store. And their performance is surprisingly respectable. Ordinary 7- to 10-power binoculars improve on the naked-eye view about as much as a good amateur telescope improves on the binoculars. In other words they get you halfway there for something like a tenth to a quarter of the price -- an excellent cost-benefit ratio. For astronomy, the larger the front lenses are the better. High optical quality is important too. But any binocular that's already knocking around the back of your closet is enough to launch an amateur-astronomy career. 5. Get serious about maps and guidebooks. Once you have the binoculars, what do you do with them? You can have fun looking at the Moon and sweeping the star fields of the Milky Way, but that will wear thin after a while. However, if you've learned the constellations and obtained detailed sky maps, binoculars can keep you busy for a lifetime. They'll reveal most of the 109 "M objects," the star clusters, galaxies, and nebulae cataloged by Charles Messier in the late 18th century. Binoculars will show the ever-changing positions of Jupiter's satellites and the crescent phase of Venus. On the Moon you can learn dozens of craters, plains, and mountain ranges by name. You can split scores of colorful double stars and spend years following the fadings and brightenings of variable stars. If you know what to look for. A sailor of the seas needs top-notch charts, and so does a sailor of the stars. Fine maps bring the fascination of hunting out faint secrets in hidden sky realms. Many reference books describe what's to be hunted and the nature of the objects you find. Moreover, the skills you'll develop using maps and reference books with binoculars are exactly the skills you'll need to put a telescope to good use. 6. Find other amateurs. Self-education is fine as far as it goes, but there's nothing like sharing an interest with others. There are more than 400 astronomy clubs in North America alone; see the directory on Sky & Telescope's Web site. Call the clubs near you. Maybe you'll get invited to monthly meetings or nighttime star parties and make a lot of new friends. Clubs range from tiny to huge, from moribund to vital. But none would have published a phone number unless they hoped you would call. Computer networks offer another way to contact other amateurs. CompuServe, America Online, and the Internet all have active astronomy areas. These present a constant flow of interesting news and chatter by amateurs who are quick to offer help, opinions, and advice. 7. When it's time for a telescope, plunge in deep. Eventually you'll know you're ready. You'll have spent hours poring over books and ad brochures. You'll know the different kinds of telescopes, what you can expect of them, and what you'll do with the one you pick. This is no time to scrimp on quality; shun the flimsy, semi-toy "department store" scopes that may have caught your eye. The telescope you want has two essentials. One is a solid, steady, smoothly working mount. The other is high-quality optics -- "diffraction-limited" or better. You may also want large aperture (size), but don't forget portability and convenience. The telescope shouldn't be so heavy that you can't tote it outdoors, set it up, and take it down reasonably easily. The old saying is true: "The best telescope for you is the one you'll use the most. Can't afford it? Save up until you can. Another year of using binoculars while building a savings account will be time you'll never regret. It's foolish to blow half-accumulated telescope money on something second rate that will disappoint. Or consider building the scope yourself, an activity that many clubs support. 8. Lose your ego. Astronomy teaches patience and humility -- and you'd better be prepared to learn them. There's nothing you can do about the clouds blocking your view, the extreme distance and faintness of the objects you desire most, or the timing of the long-anticipated event for which you got all set up one minute late. The universe will not bend to your wishes; you must take it on its own terms. Most of the objects within reach of any telescope, no matter how large or small it is, are barely within its reach. Most of the time you'll be hunting for things that appear very dim, small, or both. If flashy visuals are what you're after, go watch TV. "Worthiness" is the term entering the amateur language for the humble perseverance that brings the rewards in this hobby. The term was coined by Ken Fulton, author of The Light-Hearted Astronomer(1984) -- a book describing the hobby as a jungle full of snares, quicksand, and wild beasts that only those with the spiritual skills of a martial artist can traverse unmauled. It's really not that bad -- but there are definitely times when a Zen calmness will help you through. 9. Relax and have fun. Part of losing your ego is not getting upset at your telescope because it's less than perfect. Perfection doesn't exist, no matter what you paid. Don't be compulsive about things like cleaning lenses and mirrors or the organization of your observing notebook. And don't feel compelled to do "useful work" right away. Ultimately, the most rewarding branches of amateur astronomy involve scientific data collecting -- venturing into the nightly wilderness to bring home a few bits of data that will advance humanity's knowledge of the universe in some tiny but real way. Such a project often marks the transformation from "beginner" to "advanced amateur," from casual sightseer to cosmic fanatic. But it only works for some people, and only when they're good and ready. Amateur astronomy should be calming and fun. If you find yourself getting wound up over your eyepiece's aberrations or Pluto's invisibility, take a deep breath and remember that you're doing this because you enjoy it. Take it only as fast or as slow, as intense or as easy, as is right for you. Alan MacRobert is an associate editor of Sky & Telescope magazine and an avid backyard astronomer.