Year of the Bargain Eyepiece?

[great_bear]

Nope - if I want to concentrate on a particular feature, anything outside a field of 20 - 25 degrees is a distraction.

Of course! - But what if you just want to look at the moon and go "Oooo"? Or don't you go "Oooo" anymore Brian?

[John]

I feel that the more important benefits of Naglers and Ethe (and the very wide angle clones that are now available) are not that they have a very wide field of view but that they show the same amount of sky as eyepieces with a narrower field of view but at a higher magnification which i) reduces background "skyglow" and ii) maintains a more effective exit pupil when using fast scopes. I think sometimes these important factors are overlooked in discussions on outright field of view.

They are not such critical factors when viewing planets the moon and double stars of course.

When all is said and done though you pays your money and makes your choice. There is something for everyone and virtually every budget available now and very few genuinely poor choices around

[Astro_Baby]

John - I agree - all creadit to Televue and personally I'd like to see the Far East come a cropper at some point but I used to sell for a certain brand when they were starting out in the UK.

Experts and buyers told me that we'd necer take the market away from Nokia and Motorola because thay had brand prestige blah blah blah - loom where Motorola are now in mobile phones (nowhere) and where Nokia are now (almost nowhere) - the iPhone has done them a fair bit of dirt but to be honest wioth or wothout the iPhone and Android Nokia would still be struggling.

Its been the same with everything. At one time I was selling a corporate network product that cost almost £30k a pop - and I am not talking ancient history here - today Netgear and DLink are flogging the same product for sub £200 in PC world.

Ditto TVs, Ditto Cars (Brina - people used to say Far Eastern cars didn't last either - but in the long run they have lasted better than GM, Ford, MG et al).

The Far East is good at process - they dont tend to innovate but then as IBM used to say 'its the pioneers who get the arrows in their back' and they dont need to innovate. Let some soppy western company do all the slog developing stuf then move in, sort the volume out and cut straight into their market.

TV will have cache for sure but mid term I'll bet when the Oki-Coki 9000 ranges comes out offering identical performance for £20 there wont be many takes for £300 worth of cache.

Its sad but true - Capitalism is ALWAYS a race to the bottom in price.

Course for the people on a budget it will be a great time and astro kit will be even more affordable.

Wish I could find a UK dealer flogging the ES 82' eyepieces at a crunchy price - time for a trip to the US perhaps

[spaceboy]

When all is said and done though you pays your money and makes your choice. There is something for everyone and virtually every budget available now and very few genuinely poor choices around

As always very well said John. But I would have much rather pays the same money for an Ethos as I did my Nags and because of Cheap good quality Chinese clones this may soon become a reality. This said there will be a lot of upset new out the box ethos owners if they paid £400-£700 for some thing that 10 months later cost £210-£380. I have already noticed the S/H market reflecting some drop in appreciation of TV EP's.

[Astro_Baby]

Yes - the people who will get my sympathy will be folks who have shelled out for stuff like TV who dont sell at the right time and will find the kit devalued.

Theres always a chance that a collector market gets going but you would have to wait a long time - I mean look at Tasco - the stuff they made thats now considered a classic is 40 years old so you'd have to wait and be patient I guess.

It happens to all this gear though - I mean if you bought a Skywatcher blue tube with an R&P focuser 2 years ago you'd be taking a dive now since Synta started bashing them out with rinky Crayford focusers.

By the way - I have a couple of the TMB Planetary IIs, they havent had a lot of use but from the one night they were in use on the TAL they seemd to be might fine eyepieces for £38 worth.

[great_bear]

where Nokia are now (almost nowhere) - the iPhone has done them a fair bit of dirt but to be honest wioth or wothout the iPhone and Android Nokia would still be struggling.

Steady on there, AB!

Android may have shipped 33 million smartphone in Q4 2010, but we still shipped 31 million - hardly close to "nowhere"

Jeremy Murray-Wakefield, Principle Engineer, Nokia.

[John]

... I have already noticed the S/H market reflecting some drop in appreciation of TV EP's.

I've been expecting that since the UWAN's came out 5 years back but it's not really happened as far as I can see as an regular used market observer. When I bought used Nagler T6's around 3 years ago £125-£135 was the going rate for a clean one and they still seem to go for around that now. Radian's still seem to sell for £95 - £110 each. The going rate for the 13mm and shorter Ethe will settle down to around £280 I reckon but will probably stick at that IMHO.

Anyone who buys these things as an investment is on the wrong track anyway - they provide much more visual satisfaction than financial

[spaceboy]

When I bought used Nagler T6's around 3 years ago £125-£135 was the going rate for a clean one and they still seem to go for around that now.

..... I've obviously been looking in the wrong place then

Where I have been looking I've only seen T6's going for £155-£160 and Rads going for £110-£120 But just recently thats changed to T6's £130 & Rads £90-£100.

[brianb]

Anyone who buys these things as an investment is on the wrong track anyway - they provide much more visual satisfaction than financial

Yeah, that's certainly the right attitude.

[spaceboy]

..... I've obviously been looking in the wrong place then

Where I have been looking I've only seen T6's going for £155-£160 and Rads going for £110-£120 But just recently thats changed to T6's £130 & Rads £90-£100.

And even £105 now U.K. Astronomy Buy & Sell Granted there's a 20% off at the mo but surly you'd wait until it was over ??

EDIT: Just realised it's not a T6

[Orion_the_Hunter]

Hi, I've read a lot about BST EXPLORERS on here, but can't find them on the internet.

Please could someone post a link to somewhere that sells them?

Many thanks,

Ed

[spaceboy]

1.25" Eyepieces

[AndyH]

Hi, I've read a lot about BST EXPLORERS on here, but can't find them on the internet.

Please could someone post a link to somewhere that sells them?

Many thanks,

Ed

I think these guys are the only ones selling them,

Sky's the Limit

Andy.

[AndyH]

They have a store on fleabay too,

Sky's the Limit Astro and Optical items - Get great deals on items on eBay.co.uk Shops!

Andy.

[Orion_the_Hunter]

Thanks for the answers

[sixela]

I wish people wouldn't call them TMBs, they're not, they're Chinese manufactured to an (allegedly) TMB design. There is legal action in the USA which I believe is still going on, TMB's estate claimed that the Chinese were using their design and trademark without authorization, the Chinese claimed in court that their design was adapted from a TMB design (using different glasses) and was therefore not covered by the patent.

Lots of confusing information. First of all, I doubt the TMB design was patented; disputes between Burgess, TMB and the (now two) Chinese manufacturers with whom they had a contract are contractual in nature.

I've heard rumours that under these contracts Burgess too had obligations, so it might not be as clear-cut as one might think. Burgess certainly claimed to own part of the tooling used for the original run of the eyepieces, but of course you can't copyright that either.

Perhaps Burgess could have had a design patent (which is a different beast, much closer to copyright than patents) but I doubt that'd be worth the paper it was written on in China or anywhere but the US.

There are also different issues: one the one hand, you have eyepieces that are similar in design but branded differently (and then it's a matter of contracts), but recently, eyepieces seem to have surfaced that also bear the easily recognisable "TMB" logo but aren't vetted by the TMB estate and are sold through decidedly gray channels, sometimes even in focal lengths that don't officially exist.

That TMB logo is a trademark, and that should certainly not appear on any eyepiece not vetted by Thomas Back's estate no matter how close or far from the original design the eyepieces are. (The Chinese "TMB" 16mm 100° AFOV eyepiece that works well mainly in slow scopes was authorised, BTW).