Are there some people who just don't get on with binoculars

[thunderbird]

Hi ,

I've been playing around with some binoculars and I just cant seem to get comforatble with any. In fairness I am looking at cheap ones. Does anyone else have this problem or is there something wrong with me

and if so I suppose the options are either a telescope or a spotter

Cheers

[Tac]

The problems you're having might be because they are cheap. How cheap is cheap? What are you looking at magnification and lens wise (i.e. 10x50).

I have the Revelation 15x70 and can highly recommend them as other will too. They are cheap at only £50 and are exactly the same as some Celestron ones that cost half as much again.

Generally binoculars are considered to be more 'pleasing' as you are seeing in stereo which is how your brain is used to working.

[thunderbird]

Actually Revelations are one of the ones I've tried which I dont get on with -which is a real pity as they are highly recommended

[scotttumsh01]

Thats the ones for me too, revelations 15x70! cant wait to get them!!

[ollypenrice]

You are not alone in this. There are a number of issues, viz:

- the distance between barrels must be just right. It is simply a matter of pulling them apart or squeezing them together. When you are trying to adjust this, look at distant objects, not near ones.

- the eye relief. This is the optimal distance from the last glass of the bins to your eye and will vary between makes. Long is good and suits spectacle wearers but then you have to hold them at the right distance from your eye. To help you do so, bins with long eye relief have cups which extend outwards a good way so you can control the distance. The cups are there to guide your eye. You need to learn by experiment the optimal distance for you and remember it. This is very important.

The individual focus. One barrel has an independent adjuster. Set this to the mid point and focus on a distant object with the other eye only. Use the main focus wheel to bring things sharp. Now swap eyes and use the individual focus device to focus the individually adjustable barrel. Note the setting and remember it because they tend to get nudged.

Magnification. I cannot possibly hold our 15X70s by hand. I am not that good with 10x50 any more and would probably go for 8X42 or some such.

I cannot use the closest focus on my best bins, a little pair of Leicas, because I get a double image. So practise on distant objects, not a problem in astronomy...

Olly

[Jon65]

Thunderbird,

If at all possible and if you haven't already done so, try and get your hands on a few different type pairs of bins ie.porro prism (eg.Revelation 15x70) and the newer roof prism type,compact and unfortunately more expensive.I still prefer the porro prisms.

Any decent photograpy/astronomy outlet should allow you try out the cheaper and more expensive range of each type.

Jon

[Tac]

Actually Revelations are one of the ones I've tried which I dont get on with -which is a real pity as they are highly recommended

How and where have you tried them?

[thunderbird]

at night looking at the moon - The only thing that I can think of is that I should have adjusted it in daylight to make sure it was all set up properly first rather than trying to adjust then in the dark

[Tac]

Yeah that could be it. I also find the moon difficult through the bins simply because it's so large and bright.

I take it that you already own the Revelations? It could always be that they have been knocked in transit and are out of collimation. A return to supplier fix if that's the case.

[thunderbird]

yep - thats the next action on my list

Its just that as a newbie you never know if its the equipment thats at fault or me !

[Tac]

Well as you know the Revelations get very good reports generally so on this occasion I think it must be equipment.

You can check to see if the collimation is out yourself. If you look at a distant roof line then once in focus slowly move the bins away from your eyes. The line of the roof should stay perfectly aligned over both eye pieces. If it looks higher on one side than the other then the collimation is probably out.

There are other things that you can also do to check your collimation. Just Google 'checking collimation binoculars' and a raft of results await you.

[Cunhaval]

Never have got on well with bins, terrestrial or astronomical use, but will have another go, in view of Olly's excellent advice.

[thunderbird]

thanks thats excellent advice - I might as well spend the next week doing that as it looks like its going to be too cloudy to look at anything else !

[Ad Astra]

Hi Thunderbird,

Here's how to set up your binos so they are properly adjusted for your eyes, I usually recommend you do this in daylight as adjusting for your vision can be tricky with a starfield or the moon.

1. Are you wearing glasses? If so, roll down the eyecup (rubber rim of the eyepiece). It may be a bit stiff, but almost all will roll down like the cuff of your trowsers! This will allow you to get your eye to the proper distance so you see the full field of view.

2. Place the front cap on the right lens - this means you only look out through your left eye only. Use the main focus to get a sharp view of a distant object - a telephone pole, steeple, or streetlight pole works well - at least 1/4 mile away, 1/2 mile is better. In reality, there is very little difference between 200 meters and "infinity" for most binos.

3. Once the left eye is well focused, switch the front cap to the left lens, and using your right eye only, look at the same light pole as you did a moment ago. Do NOT adjust the main focus!! Adjust the focus for your right eye by rotating the Right eyepiece, this is called diopter adjustment, and it allows the binocular to account for differences in the relative correction for right and left eye individually!

4. With both eyes now working well separately - it is time to try them together. Remove the front cap, and hold the binocular to your eye and look at the same lamp pole again. Do NOT touch the focus! This time, just adjust the interpupilary distance or IPD, by 'folding' the binos closer or farther apart until you see one image.

From this point, you may need to adjust the main focus, but not the eyepiece/diopter. The main focus now moves both barrels together, but preserves the difference between right and left eye you have set.

Practice a bit - you should be able to use them easily now. If not there are four main possible reasons.

1. Too much magnification. Over 8x becomes difficult for many people to hold still - especially in a full size (50mm & up) binocular. Over 10x is impossible for 95% of the population to use hand held and keep a steady view of a starfield.

2. You see 'double' or 'ghosted' images - the binoculars may be out of collimation, or your eyes may be badly crossed. Bad collimation is all too common - especially in low end binoculars. If you feel your eyes cross - or your vision seems "strained" when you use the binos, or if you feel your eyes 'uncross' after using them - that is bad collimation / bad equipment. Easily solved by moving up the food chain a bit.

3. The difference in visual acuity between right and left is too great for the bino to accodate. This should be accounted for by wearing glasses when you use the binos. If your glasses correct your vision properly (both eyes see equally well), you should have no problem, although I would guess about 25% of the population over 40 cannot use standard binoculars without the aid of corrective glasses or contacts. Still - if your glasses work, binoculars should too in almost every case.

4. You may have a retinal flaw or retinal disease. This too, is rare, but I sold telescopes and binos for about 10 years and over that time sent perhaps 3 people to the eye doctor after they reported differences in right eye/left eye from a quality binocular (Swarovski, Leika, Zeiss, Nikon) that did NOT originate in the optical equipment. This is really rare - and not the explanation I'd jump on until I had exhausted every possibility.

Cheap Solution! Go out with the local astro club to their next star gazing session - probably people there with lots of wonderful gear you can try for the cost of hearing them gush about their kit in your ear while you are trying to concentrate on the Moon.

Seriously - I hope this helps. Binoculars are a wonderful, wide field instrument for learning your way around the skies.

Dan

[thunderbird]

wow - great advice thanks guys

[Sarah]

I found that my eyes didn't feel comfortable with any 10x50s that I looked through, but found a pair of 8x42s that felt very comfortable. I did spend a bit more on them than intended but hope that they will last me a long time! We did buy another pair last year, this time they were 10x42s. Again spent more than intended but after trying out several again, varying in price, went with the ones that seemed the best overall and most comfortable.

Both of these purchases were made after visiting astronomy suppliers and trying out lots of different binoculars, by viewing outside. I would definitely recommend visiting a shop that has a good supply of binoculars and trying them all out, to see what feels most comfortable.

[BazMark]

It's definitely a case of trying them out and seeing which ones work best for you. Over the years I've had numerous pairs, at least two of which were in the region of £150.

One problem I used to find is that no matter how I set the dioptre eyepiece I could not bring both eyes to focus in most binoculars I tried. Since the age of about 25 I have had a slight astigmatism in both eyes for which I wear glasses and I used to think that that was the problem. However, as I've aged the astigmatism has gotten worse but the problem I have with binoculars seems to have gone away.

But the best ones I've owned by far are the ones I use now which are my new Revelations from FLO and a pair of £15 Rocktrail 10x50s from LIDLs.